Gaia: Pathless Land: A Krishnamurti Community

Krishnamurti and Almaas

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:30:25 GMT

I recently came across this essay and thought it was worth sharing, since this was also a question that I used to struggle with:

SPIRITUALITY AND PSYCHOLOGY
The Work of A.H. Almaas

Kriben Pillay

My starting point for this inquiry into the work of A.H. Almaas was to pursue a question that became a burning one for me after many years of involvement in the teachings of J. Krishnamurti. And the question was: Why are so many people attracted to Krishnamurti’s teachings, and yet there have been virtually no transformations in individuals in the manner that Krishnamurti indicated? In tandem with this question was a prejudice in myself for the whole field of psychology as it relates to self-realization. Again, this attitude can be traced to my 'conditioning' by Krishnamurti's teachings about the whole psychological enterprise; an attitude that had been fairly intransigent, and one that was subtly supported by the traditional rejection of psychology as a tool for ontological inquiry, and further entrenched by mainstream psychology's dismissal of the spiritual dimensions of being.

It was thus with great interest that I read Almaas' first book, The Elixir of Enlightenment, published in 1984, in which he addresses the very question that had been plaguing me.

Krishnamurti's teaching, although it is simple, elegant and true, proves to be not relevant to most people who listen to him. They cannot understand him, because they need to understand many other things about themselves and their minds before they can even relate to what he says. His words do not penetrate them, his teaching does not relate to their personal lives. Many of them understand him intellectually, but that is not real understanding, and they believe what he says, but it does not transform them.

Krishnamurti says his teaching is simple and direct. He has said that a person can listen to him and understand him, and be transformed right there, before leaving the lecture hall. This is all very true, but it is simple and direct only to Krishnamurti's own perception. The state he is describing is experienced as simple. It is simple, and ordinary, and very near to the individual. It is, in fact, the very nature of awareness: simple, empty, clear.

But his teaching does not take into account the state of consciousness of most of his listeners. Their minds are preoccupied with other things, are full of all kinds of concerns and conflicts that they are not about to give up. These concerns and conflicts make up not only their lives but their very identities. They cannot therefore just be simply aware.

Krishnamurti is in fact asking his listeners nothing less than to give up their ego and their sense of self identity. But there is a lot involved in this sense of self and much of it is unconscious, not available to awareness. It is the sense of self that still governs the mind, the movement of thoughts, the focus of attention. (Almaas, 1984:16-17)

The above, somewhat lengthy, quotation encapsulates Almaas' concern - the 'situation' as he terms it - for which he also provides a possible solution. And the solution, in Almaas' view, is the cultivation in the individual of essence.
To gain a more precise understanding of the situation, and to personalize the teaching, we need first to understand the personality and how it is related to the free reality, the being – what we call essence. Our true nature, our essence, what is real and unconditioned in the human being, does not exist in some mysterious realm, waiting for us to attack and slay the inimical ego, and then show up in glory. Our being, our essence, the divine within us, is connected to our personality in a very complex and intimate way. (Ibid., 29)

To achieve essential development by clarifying and refining the personality, Almaas has turned to the tools of psychology, especially depth psychology, to bring clinical precision to bear upon the endeavor of self-exploration. As a theorist his work is an elegant mapping of the human psyche with very detailed, clinical observations, born of years of inner inquiry and working with hundreds of students, as well as grounding himself thoroughly in psychological theories pertinent to his undertaking. Almaas also displays a rare understanding of all the great spiritual traditions, using the genius of each to sharpen his own tools of inquiry.

Almaas' writings fall into three categories: detailed technical works that advance the ontological perspective with the technical, objective, rigor of scientific inquiry, which at the same time contribute significantly to the contemporary body of psychological knowledge; transcripts of his talks where the language is less formal, displaying the flavor of a spontaneous discourse coming from the heart but without losing the thrust of penetrating inquiry; and his own personal, no holds barred meditations on his inner life - where the states experienced are intensely observed and commented upon. While Luminous Night’s Journey, an example of the latter, falls more within the category of mystical writing, it is nevertheless a unique development of this genre because it is approached with the same rigorous precision that is to be found in the very much lengthier, technical works.

Almaas calls the work he does the Diamond Approach, to reflect the multi-faceted approach to spiritual awakening. In an interview Almaas says:
"In the Diamond Approach, the psychological and the spiritual are so interlinked that they’re really indistinguishable," explains Almaas. "It’s not like you do psychological work for psychological issues, and spiritual practices to attain spiritual states. The psychological work is the actual practice that brings about the spiritual states." (Flory, 1990)

It is my feeling that future movements in psychology, especially in the transpersonal arena, will single out Almaas for his contribution to our understanding of essence in the process of self-realization:
True, the mind must respond, must see and understand, for there to be a transformation. Otherwise it will block the force of essence. The mind does part of the work, but cannot do the whole work. The other half of the work, the more fundamental half, is done by essence itself, by its very presence. Essence is the transformative agent. (Almaas, 1984:44)

In his own landmark work, The Eye of Spirit, transpersonal theorist Ken Wilber makes special mention of Almaas’ work:

The Pearl beyond Price is one of the truly great and pioneering books of the East/West dialogue…. It remains to be seen, of course, just what fate our culture will deal a postformal and post-post conventional approach. Historically – and in almost any country – postformal consciousness has been crucified. Once a group, grounded in such, starts to become "popular" and "noticed," a whole host of background cultural forces swing into play, even in pluralistic, tolerant societies that share the values of the Western enlightenment. It is thus with the very best wishes and encouragement, and slight trepidation, that I watch the future unfolding of the Diamond Approach. (Wilber, 1997:372-373)

In fact, what Wilber is saying about our cultural consciousness and its anticipated reaction, is exactly the observation that Almaas brings to the reactions of the personality in the face of teachings that go beyond the personal. It erects barriers against the imagined terror of dissolution, even though, paradoxically, it may make great effort to achieve the state of egolessness. However, if time shows that Almaas’ work yields greater results precisely because of the technical precision that he brings to the task of human transformation, then perhaps this very precision will negate the cultural backlash that Wilber fears.

In an introductory article as general and brief as this, one cannot hope to begin to capture the enormous depth of work of someone who is not only a genuine mystic, truly embodying the non-dual state, but also a teacher and theorist far ahead of his times. And maybe Almaas’ lack of any formal training in both traditional spirituality and psychology provides a key to his achievement.

References

1. Almaas, A.H. 1987. Diamond Heart Book I – Elements of the Real in Man. Berkeley: Diamond Books.
2. Almaas, A.H. 1989. Diamond Heart Book II – The Freedom To Be. Berkeley: Diamond Books.
3. Almaas, A.H. 1990. Diamond Heart Book III – Being and the Meaning of Life.
4. Almaas, A.H. 1984. The Elixir of Enlightenment. York Beach, ME: Samuel Weiser, Inc.
5. Almaas, A.H. 1986. Essence. York Beach, ME: Samuel Weiser, Inc.
6. Almaas, A.H. 1995. Heart Dweller. Berkeley: Diamond Books.
7. Almaas, A.H. 1995. Luminous Night’s Journey – An Autobiographical Fragment. Berkeley: Diamond Books.
8. Almaas, A.H. 1988. The Pearl Beyond Price – Integration of Personality into Being: An Object Relations Approach. Berkeley: Diamond Books.
9. Almaas, A.H. 1996. The Point of Existence – Transformations of Narcissism in Self-Realization. Berkeley: Diamond Books.
10. Almaas, A.H. 1986/1992. The Void – Inner Spaciousness and Ego Structure. Berkeley: Diamond Books.
11. Almaas, A.H. 1992. Work on the Superego. Berkeley: Diamond Books.
12. Flory, Don, September-October 1990. ‘The Pearl Beyond Price – An Interview with A.H. Almaas’. The Yoga Journal. (Downloaded from the Ridhwan Foundation Web Site.)
13. Wilber, Ken. 1997. The Eye of Spirit. Boston & London: Shambhala.

About A.H. Almaas (taken from the Ridhwan Foundation Web Site www.ridhwan.org )
A.H. Almaas is the pen name of A. Hameed Ali, the originator of the Diamond Approach. Born in Kuwait, his academic background is in physics, mathematics, and psychology.
Ali has developed the Diamond Approach over the last 25 years. He discovered, through self exploration and work with others, that the ego, or personality, is not only an impediment to growth and happiness, but also covers up vital aspects of us that we need if we are to feel fulfilled or at peace or to acquire the ability to be present and operate in the real world. He and his students have learned that these aspects of essence are still available to us and that the personality offers a path to rediscovering them. Aspects of this development are explored in the 1995 book Luminous Night's Journey. In 1975, Ali founded the Ridhwan School in Boulder, Colorado and Berkeley, California. The school now has about 900 members around the United States and abroad, with students in Canada, Australia, Germany, the Netherlands, Great Britain, and other countries.

Re: Zeitgeist Film and Krishnamurti

http://sergioh.gaia.com — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:13:38 GMT

As a Krishnamurti reader, I feel very safe in saying I think he would be very proud of this movie. In fact, in one of his books he does say we must become active and offer a solution (or as Ghandi says "Be The Change").

I think the first part of the movie is about facts and "what is". It may seem extreme but only because it IS extreme. The end brings it back full circle (beautifully) about what can be done which is where he introduces the Venus Project.

I have been on my own path (in this life) for 18 years now. I was very much a rebel when I first started thinking it was all about "fuck the police". Then as I evolved and delved spiritually I very much went into the "unconditional love" space. Now as I have "balanced" myself I see it is both: we must come from love and be active! This is a physical world we live in and there are 7 (or is it 9 now?) billion people on the planet. We have to eat, resources must be accounted for, and a system of living has to be addressed. Just focusing on quantum ideas and spiritual concepts is not enough. That is just one half. The other half is the physical practicality. This is the most comprehensive "idea" put forth yet that addresses the physical component of our lives. It is so easy for people to criticize this but yet I hear no other option put forth. Why do so many people spend more time being a critic then a solution generator. On this page all I see are critics. Where are the solutions of how you think 7+ billion people will live?

Yes, this concept has bugs. Yes it is raw (they even admit this). But we have to start somewhere. Consider this play dough and pick up your carving tool and help shape this.

We live in a system now that is failing and will crumble. There must be an alternative option in place so that as things fall, people have a "choice" on what they want to help build. Please, if you have a better idea of how all of us on this planet can live (physically) please put it forth I am all ears. For now, this is the best idea so far.

If you want to be active, go here Support

There is also an updated presentation

Re: Krishnamurti's Favorite Jokes

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:20:00 GMT

Entertaining! Thanks :)

Nicole

Re: Krishnamurti's Favorite Jokes

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:13:41 GMT

“Two friends, one of them a bishop, die in a car crash. They go up to heaven and meet St. Peter. Neither of them has sinned too much, so he lets them in. And he says to them, ‘If you have any special request, tell me now, and I’ll see to it that it gets done.’ The bishop, a religious person, asks to see God. St Peter is startled by his request and tries to dissuade him, ‘Seeing God is a sensitive affair—it’s very shocking. Few people can stand it. If I may advice you, please don’t insist on this.’ But the man is adamant and insists on his wish.

Finally St Peter gives in and tells him, ‘Very well, if you insist. Just don’t blame me afterwards. Go that way and follow the signs: ’God’. And don’t forget to come back here.’ Off he goes to see God, while his friend wait with St Peter for his return. It takes ten to fifteen minutes before he returns. He is a mere shadow of himself, as pale as a ghost, and staggering about in deep shock. His friend is concerned to see him in this state and says, ‘By Jove, what’s happened to you? What was He like?’ But the man can only moan, ‘She’s black.’”

Re: Krishnamurti's Favorite Jokes

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:56:00 GMT

God has just completed the creation of world, with its ocean and continents and all the creatures, including the humans. As he surveys his work, an angel points out that there is one small spot in the center of Europe that’s been left blank and empty. The Lord says, ‘I must have overlooked the spot. What shall we do with it?’ And the angel answers, ‘If I may suggest it, Lord why don’t you create a land of milk and honey, called Switzerland—with snow-peaked mountains, streams, forests and green meadows, where cows graze that produce the best milk in the world?’

The Lord replies, ‘That sounds good. And what about the humans there?’ And the angel suggests, ‘Why not make them clean, orderly, and hard-working, with the greatest respect for money?’ And the Lord says, ‘So be it.’ And so it was done. After some time the Lord wants to see what he has created and goes down to Earth. He walks among the mountains, enjoying the beauty of the scenery. After a while he comes to a small village, very clean and orderly. As the day is getting hotter, he feels a bit thirsty. So he walks up to one of the cafés with outdoor tables and chairs.

The owner immediately recognizes him and comes running, greeting him with great respect, ‘O Lord, please sit down. It’s an extraordinary honor that You visit our small town and my humble café. Is there anything, anything, that we can do for You?’ The Lord is pleased and says, ‘By Jove, I noticed your splendid cows grazing out there. Give me a tall glass of cold, fresh milk.’ ‘Immediately, O Lord.’ And the man trots off and returns with a tall glass of fresh, cold milk with foam on the top, and places in front of the Lord. He drinks it down with much enjoyment. He’s just getting up from the table when the owner comes running and, with a respectful bow, places a small plate with the strip of paper in front of him. The Lord looks at it and asks the man, ‘What is that?’ The owner bows again and explains, ‘With all due respect, O Lord, that is the bill.’

Re: Krishnamurti's Favorite Jokes

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:51:49 GMT

“There are three monks, who had been sitting in deep meditation for many years amidst the Himalayan snow peaks, never speaking a word, in utter silence. One morning, one of the three suddenly speaks up and says, ‘What a lovely morning this is.’ And he falls silent again. Five years of silence pass, when all at once the second monk speaks up and says, ‘But we could do with some rain.’ There is silence among them for another five years, when suddenly the third monk says, ‘Why can’t you two stop chattering?”

Re: Krishnamurti's Favorite Jokes

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:49:11 GMT

"A man dies and goes to the Pearly Gates. St. Peter says to him, ‘You’ve lived a fairly good life, not cheated or sinned too much. But before entering heaven I must tell you that we’re all bored here. God never laughs, and the angels are quite moody, praying most of the time. So please hesitate before entering heaven. Perhaps, you’d like to go down and see what that’s like. Then come and tell me what you prefer. But it’s up to you. Just ring that bell over there. An elevator will come up and you just get into it and go down.’ So the chap rings the bell and goes down in the elevator.

The doors open and he is met by the most beautiful girl, who take care of him, et cetera, et cetera. '‘By Jove’, he thinks, ‘this is life.’ And he says to the girls, ‘May I just go and tell St. Peter?’ He rings the bell, get into the elevator and goes up. He says to St. Peter, ‘Sir, it’s very good of you to have offered me the choice, I prefer down below.’ St. Peter says, ‘I thought you would.’ The man rings the bell again and goes down. The doors open and two ugly fiends grab him and beat him up, pushing and kicking him. He moans, ‘Wait a minute. Just a little while ago you treated me like a king. And now this; why?’ ‘Ah, you were a tourist then.’”

Krishnamurti's Favorite Jokes

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:45:16 GMT

Here are a few of the jokes Krishnamurti was fond of telling:

"One day, the Pope dies and goes up to the Pearly Gates where he meets St. Peter. He says to him, ‘You must be St. Peter.’ St. Peter answers, ‘And who are you?’ The pope is taken aback, ‘You don’t recognize me? I’m the Pope.’ St. Peter picks up his list and goes over the names, ‘Pope, Pope—I’m sorry, there is nobody here by that name. I’m sorry, but you can’t enter heaven.’

The Pope is shocked. ‘There must be some mistake. It’s impossible—I must be on that list. Please, look again: I’m the Pope!’ St. Peter gets impatient and tells him to buzz off. By now the Pope is in tears and begs him, ‘Please, St. Peter, I’m your successor and the representative of Jesus on earth. I’m the head of the Holy Roman Church. I have a right to enter heaven.’ St. Peter is getting annoyed and says, I’ve never heard of anything so foolish. If you don’t immediately buzz off, I’ll call the angels with the flaming swords.’ The Pope is in utter despair. ‘No, please don’t, I beg of you. Can’t you ask somebody, who knows me? Maybe Jesus or one of the saints will vouch for me.’

St. Peter gives in and says to the chap, ‘All right, I’ll go and ask inside. You stay here. And don’t touch anything.’ So he goes inside, and there are Jesus, his mother Mary, the apostles and several angels and saints. ‘Excuse me, Lord,’ says St. Peter, ‘there is a chap by the name of Pope wanting to enter heaven. He claims to have been your representative on earth.’ Jesus laughs, ‘My representative on earth? That’s absurd, isn’t it? And I’ve never heard of anyone named Pope?’ No one seems to know the Pope, until suddenly the Virgin Mary speaks up, ‘Wait a minute. Pope—isn’t he the one who spread all the rumors about me and the Holy Ghost?’”

Re: Welcome to New Members

http://MarkDuBois.gaia.com — Sun, 31 May 2009 12:56:52 GMT

Bruce,

"I also came across K's work when I was about 20, and it had a powerful impact on me,..."

That's right, anyone that really gets K will be powerfully impacted and be able to do something with it. The mission statement for this group is vague and needs to be updated.

Mark

Re: Zeitgeist Film and Krishnamurti

http://MarkDuBois.gaia.com — Sun, 31 May 2009 12:24:12 GMT

I've been participating in various spiritual circles for the past nine years. In all of them with no exception, the rule of the day is to get 'enlightened' in whatever du jour AND suppress our emotions.

Emotions oftentimes are misconstrued to be elements of 'shadows' or other some-such negative language. And since anger is in this realm and not socially acceptable, it often doesn't get expressed.

Anger can be a very effective emotion as it is very closely tied with our will. It can be used as useful energy, particularly when channeled appropriately.

I wasn't particularly angry above either. I was a member at IL for about 6 months and did both my construction and deconstruction part.

...as Dan mentioned above, "The real revolution is the revolution of consciousness.”

Both at a personal level and at a world level. This is your life and your world.

Re: Zeitgeist Film and Krishnamurti

http://MarkDuBois.gaia.com — Fri, 29 May 2009 17:35:32 GMT

Hey Guys! Just found this group in my email from Gaia this morning and joined this group too. I am a huge fan of Krishnamurti.

I've seen several movies in this series and had similar conclusions. After several months, I've determined for myself that the conspiracy isn't a conscious one, but an unconscious one.

Taken on a smaller scale such as at IL, the same mechanics/dynamics are occurring too.

In other words, some reasonably well intentioned persons in positions of power are unconsciously doing a lot of damage.

Then when you become a radical revolutionary of consciousness, such as myself, you do whatever means are necessary to fight it. You don't talk about it, you do something about it.

First, you determine root cause and fight it at the root. IL claims to represent the World Forum.

THE FUCK THEY DO!

Re: Zeitgeist Film and Krishnamurti

http://drs1958.gaia.com — Thu, 21 May 2009 23:47:29 GMT

I agree Balder.

Pretty radical...and scary because what they are saying has come to pass to an extent.

It was produced before the economic meltdown was in full swing.

The suggestions for "Social Transformation" are really radical however.

The rebellion or boycotting suggested is polarizing and I don't think will change it (the problems we face as a nation and globally) or make it better.

Considering the principles of Spiral Dynamics (which the film does not discuss)

http://www.loosetooth.com/Viscom/gf/spiral_dynamics.pdf

is one beautiful example of what can be done to understand the problem and help effectively transform it sustainably.

I do agree with them when they suggest we have been lied to. Lied to by what extent is still not 100% clear, it may never be clear. It may not matter pointing fingers.
Useless really. Find solutions!

Demading accountability on a certain level can be counterproductive and a distract from higher creative solutions when valuable time is of the essence.

The point is, where do we go from here? What do we do to change it? How much time is left?

Beginnning at 1:56:40 however is where the commentator hits the nail right on the head and is where I support and agree 100% with what is being said.
Probably the one point that the Krishnamurti Foundation did like:

"But in the end the real relevant change must occur first inside of you. The real revolution is the revolution of consciousness..."

The ending is dramatic. Martix style. That is the best part of the film in addition to Krishnamurti himself

Dan

Re: Zeitgeist Film and Krishnamurti

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:54:03 GMT

Hi, Dan, thanks for highlighting this. It seems strange to me, too, that the Krishnamurti Foundation would want Krishnamurti to be associated with this sort of extremist, conspiracy-type movement. Maybe they are just looking for a way to have his work re-enter popular awareness again, since it does seem that there is less general awareness of him and his message than there was a couple decades ago. But, to me, this is not the right platform.

Zeitgeist Film and Krishnamurti

http://drs1958.gaia.com — Thu, 21 May 2009 01:01:39 GMT

I'm sure many here are aware of the footage included in Zeitgest Addendum

@ 1:57:14

I am struck that the Krishnamurti Foundation would allow rights to his footage considering how radical some of the ideas are in this film. I think the films intentions are good, but some of the suggestions right before Krishnamurti and throughout the film are extreme and unprovable IMHO.

Are they not in a sense advocating these concepts by allowing Krishnamurti footage to be used?

I think the value of the film is in the middle ground between its extremism and more moderate views. There's no way to confirm this stuff to begin with, which is dicey from the get go.

Why do they associate themselves with this film?

Dan

Re: Useful Krishnamurti Links

http://onthetrail.gaia.com — Sun, 03 May 2009 15:20:14 GMT

Thanks Bruce!

Frans

Re: Useful Krishnamurti Links

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:26:01 GMT

For any interested members, here is a new resource for Krishnamurti e-books. Most of his books are available there for free downloading. The books are in PDF format, which I much prefer to the scanned copies that were available at previous sites.

Re: K Quotes

http://onthetrail.gaia.com — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:58:15 GMT

Beautiful!

It pretty much sums up a lengthy discussion we've been having on the "God and Life, the Universe and Everything" pod; so I copied it and posted it there too.

Thanks!
Frans

Re: K Quotes

http://drs1958.gaia.com — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:38:28 GMT

What we are trying in all these discussions and talks here is to see if we cannot bring about a transformation of mind. Not accepting things as they are, but to understand it, to go into it, to examine it...give your heart and your mind everything you have to find a way of living differently.

But, that depends on you and not somebody else. Because in this there is no teacher, no pupil, there's no leader, there's no guru, there's no master, no savior. You yourself are the teacher and the pupil, you are the master, you are the guru, you are the leader...

You are everything!

And to understand...is to transform what is.

Krishnamurti

Re: Cultivation / Moderation of this Pod

http://Davidu.gaia.com — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:54:03 GMT

It's a shame to see this go. I know you had high hopes for this pod when you initiated it. I do regret I was not present very often, but it seems as much as I admired K and was grateful for all he gave me on my spiritual journey, I've moved on. The fascination with his teachings, although they were root awakenings for me decades ago, seem to be replaced with a vision that feels rich with revelations through inquiry -- TSK.

Best wishes, and I hope someone will pick up the task as Cultovator of this pod.

Re: Cultivation / Moderation of this Pod

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:39:17 GMT

Hi, Tharlam,

If you are interested in taking over the cultivation of this pod, I would be happy to hand it to you. If you are interested in K and have the energy for this space, I would love to see it thrive. I am sorry I haven't been able to make it do so myself.

If you are interested, I'll be happy to pass the reins to you, friend. I would like to remain a member of the pod and would still enjoy joining in conversations as I am able.

Best wishes,

Balder