Gaia: Pathless Land: A Krishnamurti Community

Re: Zeitgeist Film and Krishnamurti

http://sergioh.gaia.com — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:13:38 GMT

As a Krishnamurti reader, I feel very safe in saying I think he would be very proud of this movie. In fact, in one of his books he does say we must become active and offer a solution (or as Ghandi says "Be The Change").

I think the first part of the movie is about facts and "what is". It may seem extreme but only because it IS extreme. The end brings it back full circle (beautifully) about what can be done which is where he introduces the Venus Project.

I have been on my own path (in this life) for 18 years now. I was very much a rebel when I first started thinking it was all about "fuck the police". Then as I evolved and delved spiritually I very much went into the "unconditional love" space. Now as I have "balanced" myself I see it is both: we must come from love and be active! This is a physical world we live in and there are 7 (or is it 9 now?) billion people on the planet. We have to eat, resources must be accounted for, and a system of living has to be addressed. Just focusing on quantum ideas and spiritual concepts is not enough. That is just one half. The other half is the physical practicality. This is the most comprehensive "idea" put forth yet that addresses the physical component of our lives. It is so easy for people to criticize this but yet I hear no other option put forth. Why do so many people spend more time being a critic then a solution generator. On this page all I see are critics. Where are the solutions of how you think 7+ billion people will live?

Yes, this concept has bugs. Yes it is raw (they even admit this). But we have to start somewhere. Consider this play dough and pick up your carving tool and help shape this.

We live in a system now that is failing and will crumble. There must be an alternative option in place so that as things fall, people have a "choice" on what they want to help build. Please, if you have a better idea of how all of us on this planet can live (physically) please put it forth I am all ears. For now, this is the best idea so far.

If you want to be active, go here Support

There is also an updated presentation

Re: Krishnamurti's Favorite Jokes

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:20:00 GMT

Entertaining! Thanks :)

Nicole

Re: Krishnamurti's Favorite Jokes

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:13:41 GMT

“Two friends, one of them a bishop, die in a car crash. They go up to heaven and meet St. Peter. Neither of them has sinned too much, so he lets them in. And he says to them, ‘If you have any special request, tell me now, and I’ll see to it that it gets done.’ The bishop, a religious person, asks to see God. St Peter is startled by his request and tries to dissuade him, ‘Seeing God is a sensitive affair—it’s very shocking. Few people can stand it. If I may advice you, please don’t insist on this.’ But the man is adamant and insists on his wish.

Finally St Peter gives in and tells him, ‘Very well, if you insist. Just don’t blame me afterwards. Go that way and follow the signs: ’God’. And don’t forget to come back here.’ Off he goes to see God, while his friend wait with St Peter for his return. It takes ten to fifteen minutes before he returns. He is a mere shadow of himself, as pale as a ghost, and staggering about in deep shock. His friend is concerned to see him in this state and says, ‘By Jove, what’s happened to you? What was He like?’ But the man can only moan, ‘She’s black.’”

Re: Krishnamurti's Favorite Jokes

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:56:00 GMT

God has just completed the creation of world, with its ocean and continents and all the creatures, including the humans. As he surveys his work, an angel points out that there is one small spot in the center of Europe that’s been left blank and empty. The Lord says, ‘I must have overlooked the spot. What shall we do with it?’ And the angel answers, ‘If I may suggest it, Lord why don’t you create a land of milk and honey, called Switzerland—with snow-peaked mountains, streams, forests and green meadows, where cows graze that produce the best milk in the world?’

The Lord replies, ‘That sounds good. And what about the humans there?’ And the angel suggests, ‘Why not make them clean, orderly, and hard-working, with the greatest respect for money?’ And the Lord says, ‘So be it.’ And so it was done. After some time the Lord wants to see what he has created and goes down to Earth. He walks among the mountains, enjoying the beauty of the scenery. After a while he comes to a small village, very clean and orderly. As the day is getting hotter, he feels a bit thirsty. So he walks up to one of the cafés with outdoor tables and chairs.

The owner immediately recognizes him and comes running, greeting him with great respect, ‘O Lord, please sit down. It’s an extraordinary honor that You visit our small town and my humble café. Is there anything, anything, that we can do for You?’ The Lord is pleased and says, ‘By Jove, I noticed your splendid cows grazing out there. Give me a tall glass of cold, fresh milk.’ ‘Immediately, O Lord.’ And the man trots off and returns with a tall glass of fresh, cold milk with foam on the top, and places in front of the Lord. He drinks it down with much enjoyment. He’s just getting up from the table when the owner comes running and, with a respectful bow, places a small plate with the strip of paper in front of him. The Lord looks at it and asks the man, ‘What is that?’ The owner bows again and explains, ‘With all due respect, O Lord, that is the bill.’

Re: Krishnamurti's Favorite Jokes

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:51:49 GMT

“There are three monks, who had been sitting in deep meditation for many years amidst the Himalayan snow peaks, never speaking a word, in utter silence. One morning, one of the three suddenly speaks up and says, ‘What a lovely morning this is.’ And he falls silent again. Five years of silence pass, when all at once the second monk speaks up and says, ‘But we could do with some rain.’ There is silence among them for another five years, when suddenly the third monk says, ‘Why can’t you two stop chattering?”

Re: Krishnamurti's Favorite Jokes

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:49:11 GMT

"A man dies and goes to the Pearly Gates. St. Peter says to him, ‘You’ve lived a fairly good life, not cheated or sinned too much. But before entering heaven I must tell you that we’re all bored here. God never laughs, and the angels are quite moody, praying most of the time. So please hesitate before entering heaven. Perhaps, you’d like to go down and see what that’s like. Then come and tell me what you prefer. But it’s up to you. Just ring that bell over there. An elevator will come up and you just get into it and go down.’ So the chap rings the bell and goes down in the elevator.

The doors open and he is met by the most beautiful girl, who take care of him, et cetera, et cetera. '‘By Jove’, he thinks, ‘this is life.’ And he says to the girls, ‘May I just go and tell St. Peter?’ He rings the bell, get into the elevator and goes up. He says to St. Peter, ‘Sir, it’s very good of you to have offered me the choice, I prefer down below.’ St. Peter says, ‘I thought you would.’ The man rings the bell again and goes down. The doors open and two ugly fiends grab him and beat him up, pushing and kicking him. He moans, ‘Wait a minute. Just a little while ago you treated me like a king. And now this; why?’ ‘Ah, you were a tourist then.’”

Krishnamurti's Favorite Jokes

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:45:16 GMT

Here are a few of the jokes Krishnamurti was fond of telling:

"One day, the Pope dies and goes up to the Pearly Gates where he meets St. Peter. He says to him, ‘You must be St. Peter.’ St. Peter answers, ‘And who are you?’ The pope is taken aback, ‘You don’t recognize me? I’m the Pope.’ St. Peter picks up his list and goes over the names, ‘Pope, Pope—I’m sorry, there is nobody here by that name. I’m sorry, but you can’t enter heaven.’

The Pope is shocked. ‘There must be some mistake. It’s impossible—I must be on that list. Please, look again: I’m the Pope!’ St. Peter gets impatient and tells him to buzz off. By now the Pope is in tears and begs him, ‘Please, St. Peter, I’m your successor and the representative of Jesus on earth. I’m the head of the Holy Roman Church. I have a right to enter heaven.’ St. Peter is getting annoyed and says, I’ve never heard of anything so foolish. If you don’t immediately buzz off, I’ll call the angels with the flaming swords.’ The Pope is in utter despair. ‘No, please don’t, I beg of you. Can’t you ask somebody, who knows me? Maybe Jesus or one of the saints will vouch for me.’

St. Peter gives in and says to the chap, ‘All right, I’ll go and ask inside. You stay here. And don’t touch anything.’ So he goes inside, and there are Jesus, his mother Mary, the apostles and several angels and saints. ‘Excuse me, Lord,’ says St. Peter, ‘there is a chap by the name of Pope wanting to enter heaven. He claims to have been your representative on earth.’ Jesus laughs, ‘My representative on earth? That’s absurd, isn’t it? And I’ve never heard of anyone named Pope?’ No one seems to know the Pope, until suddenly the Virgin Mary speaks up, ‘Wait a minute. Pope—isn’t he the one who spread all the rumors about me and the Holy Ghost?’”

Re: Welcome to New Members

http://MarkDuBois.gaia.com — Sun, 31 May 2009 12:56:52 GMT

Bruce,

"I also came across K's work when I was about 20, and it had a powerful impact on me,..."

That's right, anyone that really gets K will be powerfully impacted and be able to do something with it. The mission statement for this group is vague and needs to be updated.

Mark

Re: Zeitgeist Film and Krishnamurti

http://MarkDuBois.gaia.com — Sun, 31 May 2009 12:24:12 GMT

I've been participating in various spiritual circles for the past nine years. In all of them with no exception, the rule of the day is to get 'enlightened' in whatever du jour AND suppress our emotions.

Emotions oftentimes are misconstrued to be elements of 'shadows' or other some-such negative language. And since anger is in this realm and not socially acceptable, it often doesn't get expressed.

Anger can be a very effective emotion as it is very closely tied with our will. It can be used as useful energy, particularly when channeled appropriately.

I wasn't particularly angry above either. I was a member at IL for about 6 months and did both my construction and deconstruction part.

...as Dan mentioned above, "The real revolution is the revolution of consciousness.”

Both at a personal level and at a world level. This is your life and your world.

Re: Zeitgeist Film and Krishnamurti

http://MarkDuBois.gaia.com — Fri, 29 May 2009 17:35:32 GMT

Hey Guys! Just found this group in my email from Gaia this morning and joined this group too. I am a huge fan of Krishnamurti.

I've seen several movies in this series and had similar conclusions. After several months, I've determined for myself that the conspiracy isn't a conscious one, but an unconscious one.

Taken on a smaller scale such as at IL, the same mechanics/dynamics are occurring too.

In other words, some reasonably well intentioned persons in positions of power are unconsciously doing a lot of damage.

Then when you become a radical revolutionary of consciousness, such as myself, you do whatever means are necessary to fight it. You don't talk about it, you do something about it.

First, you determine root cause and fight it at the root. IL claims to represent the World Forum.

THE FUCK THEY DO!

Re: Zeitgeist Film and Krishnamurti

http://drs1958.gaia.com — Thu, 21 May 2009 23:47:29 GMT

I agree Balder.

Pretty radical...and scary because what they are saying has come to pass to an extent.

It was produced before the economic meltdown was in full swing.

The suggestions for "Social Transformation" are really radical however.

The rebellion or boycotting suggested is polarizing and I don't think will change it (the problems we face as a nation and globally) or make it better.

Considering the principles of Spiral Dynamics (which the film does not discuss)

http://www.loosetooth.com/Viscom/gf/spiral_dynamics.pdf

is one beautiful example of what can be done to understand the problem and help effectively transform it sustainably.

I do agree with them when they suggest we have been lied to. Lied to by what extent is still not 100% clear, it may never be clear. It may not matter pointing fingers.
Useless really. Find solutions!

Demading accountability on a certain level can be counterproductive and a distract from higher creative solutions when valuable time is of the essence.

The point is, where do we go from here? What do we do to change it? How much time is left?

Beginnning at 1:56:40 however is where the commentator hits the nail right on the head and is where I support and agree 100% with what is being said.
Probably the one point that the Krishnamurti Foundation did like:

"But in the end the real relevant change must occur first inside of you. The real revolution is the revolution of consciousness..."

The ending is dramatic. Martix style. That is the best part of the film in addition to Krishnamurti himself

Dan

Re: Zeitgeist Film and Krishnamurti

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:54:03 GMT

Hi, Dan, thanks for highlighting this. It seems strange to me, too, that the Krishnamurti Foundation would want Krishnamurti to be associated with this sort of extremist, conspiracy-type movement. Maybe they are just looking for a way to have his work re-enter popular awareness again, since it does seem that there is less general awareness of him and his message than there was a couple decades ago. But, to me, this is not the right platform.

Zeitgeist Film and Krishnamurti

http://drs1958.gaia.com — Thu, 21 May 2009 01:01:39 GMT

I'm sure many here are aware of the footage included in Zeitgest Addendum

@ 1:57:14

I am struck that the Krishnamurti Foundation would allow rights to his footage considering how radical some of the ideas are in this film. I think the films intentions are good, but some of the suggestions right before Krishnamurti and throughout the film are extreme and unprovable IMHO.

Are they not in a sense advocating these concepts by allowing Krishnamurti footage to be used?

I think the value of the film is in the middle ground between its extremism and more moderate views. There's no way to confirm this stuff to begin with, which is dicey from the get go.

Why do they associate themselves with this film?

Dan

Re: Useful Krishnamurti Links

http://onthetrail.gaia.com — Sun, 03 May 2009 15:20:14 GMT

Thanks Bruce!

Frans

Re: Useful Krishnamurti Links

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:26:01 GMT

For any interested members, here is a new resource for Krishnamurti e-books. Most of his books are available there for free downloading. The books are in PDF format, which I much prefer to the scanned copies that were available at previous sites.

Re: K Quotes

http://onthetrail.gaia.com — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:58:15 GMT

Beautiful!

It pretty much sums up a lengthy discussion we've been having on the "God and Life, the Universe and Everything" pod; so I copied it and posted it there too.

Thanks!
Frans

Re: K Quotes

http://drs1958.gaia.com — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:38:28 GMT

What we are trying in all these discussions and talks here is to see if we cannot bring about a transformation of mind. Not accepting things as they are, but to understand it, to go into it, to examine it...give your heart and your mind everything you have to find a way of living differently.

But, that depends on you and not somebody else. Because in this there is no teacher, no pupil, there's no leader, there's no guru, there's no master, no savior. You yourself are the teacher and the pupil, you are the master, you are the guru, you are the leader...

You are everything!

And to understand...is to transform what is.

Krishnamurti

Re: Cultivation / Moderation of this Pod

http://Davidu.gaia.com — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:54:03 GMT

It's a shame to see this go. I know you had high hopes for this pod when you initiated it. I do regret I was not present very often, but it seems as much as I admired K and was grateful for all he gave me on my spiritual journey, I've moved on. The fascination with his teachings, although they were root awakenings for me decades ago, seem to be replaced with a vision that feels rich with revelations through inquiry -- TSK.

Best wishes, and I hope someone will pick up the task as Cultovator of this pod.

Re: Cultivation / Moderation of this Pod

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:39:17 GMT

Hi, Tharlam,

If you are interested in taking over the cultivation of this pod, I would be happy to hand it to you. If you are interested in K and have the energy for this space, I would love to see it thrive. I am sorry I haven't been able to make it do so myself.

If you are interested, I'll be happy to pass the reins to you, friend. I would like to remain a member of the pod and would still enjoy joining in conversations as I am able.

Best wishes,

Balder

Re: Cultivation / Moderation of this Pod

http://tharlam.gaia.com — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:12:09 GMT

I myself have energy, dear friend -but perhaps not the preferred degree of expertise on the subject to facilitate the pod. One is but a novice where the words of Krishnamurti are concerned.

In saying that, I obviously have much to learn and would find the deletion of the pod a great shame. I shall take the reigns if you do not find a more suitable candidate.

Hope you are well.