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Re: Welcome to New Members

Kiso [no longer around] said Feb 11, 2007, 4:19 PM:

Hi Balder!

I discovered Krishnamurti about the same time you did. I remember thinking (then) how K's material was the closest expression of “western Zen thought” that I had encountered.

I was always humored by his insistance for inquiry and open communication in the face of a rather dogmatic presentation. I remember in one book how he was terribly critical of Zen practice, only to refer to a story that is normally ascribed to the Zen tradition in the following paragraph!

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Re: Welcome to New Members

Balder said Feb 11, 2007, 4:56 PM:

Hi, Kiso. Welcome!

I know what you mean by the rather dogmatic-sounding presentation. I like to think his strong disparagement of all religious traditions was a pedagogical device that he employed, rather than something he dogmatically believed, but sometimes I wonder….

Best wishes,

Balder

Re: Welcome to New Members

Lucidity said Feb 16, 2007, 2:54 PM:

I don't really know Krishnamurti, but having read some of your entries about his teachings. It moves me and connects to me. It really reminds me of what Chogyum Trunpa talks about in “Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism” …a pathless path, which is from the vajrayana teachings. I'm looking forward to learning more and connecting.

Re: Welcome to New Members

Balder said Feb 16, 2007, 4:07 PM:

Welcome to the Pathless Land, Klare! If you are not very familiar with Krishnamurti and his work, you might want to check out a thread I started which provides some online resources, including an online text collection (most of his books are available there for free):

Useful Krishnamurti Links

Best wishes,

Balder

Re: Welcome to New Members

Kiso [no longer around] said Feb 17, 2007, 3:34 PM:

Hi Klare!

I think that “Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism” is a very imporatant book and one that every “spiritual” person should read. Although it's been awhile since I have read it, what I seem to remember is that Trungpa was warning of the dangers of a “path” which the ego can get all wrapped up in. For me, the book gave me the hope that there can be a value in a path. By the same token, I hear Krishnamurti's teaching (at least in part) as putting out the warning of the possible traps (that are not necessarily the fault of the path) that are added on by the ego and the social function of organization. It is with irony that Trungpa is probably one of the better examples of what Krishnamurti was arguing against.

Rich

Re: Welcome to New Members

Lucidity said Feb 17, 2007, 9:51 PM:

Rich,

I agree with you about the irony regarding Trungpa, but he also realized the materialism involved with a spiritual journey and had his students practice the mahamudra to undermind their ego grasping. From what I'm starting to understand about Krishnamurti, he was speaking to the problems of religious organizations possibilities of its own disillusionment and he did this quite well. On the one hand organizations have helped many on the path. And it's good to be constantly reminded of the ego's entrapments.

Both fortunately and unfortunately, we are not enlightened beings and I'm sure Krishnamurti had his moments as well. So, it's really at least for me coming into “awareness” whenever and whereever we are.

I think to Kristen's point it's important to see the “truth” in many relative forms because ultimately the “absolute” can be spoken of in so many ways and at the same time we can't speak about it.