Gaia: Sanskrit Club

Re: Perhaps you could...

http://Govindaone.gaia.com — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 07:25:21 GMT

These links sound really cool Thank's
I am quite a novice at this. I was grasping at the grasping part yet
see things as they are seems like quiet beauty. You go guy's !

Re: Introduce Yourself and Tell us why are you interested in Sans

http://assaji.gaia.com — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:28:03 GMT

Samme, thank you for joining us. It is so lovely to read your fascination and enthuciacsm towards this ancient language. I just browsed through youtube and found some clips of the movie “Adi Shankaracharya”. Yes it is entirely spoken in Sanskrit. It is very similar to Hindi, Urdu and Bengali. As I notice, these languages have their roots in Sanskrit. I think the reason why Sanskrit has become less spoken, is because of its confinement to only the religious priest at that time and wasn't meant for general people. They believed that it is the language of Brahma and only the Brahmin can learn and speak. However, from the 2nd century BC onwards, we see lots of Buddhist Sanskrit texts found around the Gandharan area (now Pakistan) and later in Kasmir. One reason is that many of the Buddhist masters during that time like Ashvaghosa, Nagarjuna, and so on, before turning to Buddhism, were themselves Brahmins by birth and surely were well versed in Sanskrit. Since Sanskrit was the language of the intellectuals, they very much used this language in their teachings and debates with other schools. Now currently we have hundreds of books preserved in Sanskrit like "Mulamadhymakakarika, Buddhacarita" and so on. Anyway, that's some history scholars are discussing. :)

Re: Introduce Yourself and Tell us why are you interested in Sans

http://princesamwise.gaia.com — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:00:26 GMT

Hi I am Samme. Thank you Assaji for this wonderful pod. I would like to know a little bit of Sanskrit as it is the language of the ancient mantras. I find this fascinating.
I saw a movie entirely spoken in Sanskrit and I believe that it is the first ever movie in Sanskrit. The movie is called "Adi Shankaracharya". If you all have a chance, try to rent and watch it.
Thank you,
Samme

Re: Instant Transliterator

http://anuradha.gaia.com — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:06:40 GMT

I tried instant translator - but just get a page of question marks - seems my computer is incompatible

Re: Introduce Yourself and Tell us why are you interested in Sans

http://anuradha.gaia.com — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:56:59 GMT

Hi
I am HummingBird
I love Sanskrit instinctually
I learned a bit in my yoga teacher training and have a small Sanskrit dictionary. I have made inquiries to see if anyone in my area teaches Sanskrit - but it seems no one does

Re: Perhaps you could...

Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:28:20 GMT

Hi Bill..that spoken sanskrit dictionary that translates both ways would be great except all I see in the sanskrit column is ?????..any ideas why?

Re: Perhaps you could...

http://assaji.gaia.com — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:07:24 GMT

At the moment, I do not have the Canonical texts of the Northern tradition (Sarvastivada, Sautrantika, Mahasanghika) and I have not really studied them, just few independent philosophical works like Mulamadhyamakakarika of Nagarjuna. So since you are interested in the earliest texts of the Pali Canon of the Theravada (preserved mainly in Sri Lanka) and I have studied some of them, it would be good to study here one important sutta.

Brahmajalasutta, Silakkhandavagga, Dighanikaya, Suttapitaka, Pali Canon:

Devanagiri: एवं मे सुतं – एकं समयं भगवा अन्तरा च राजगहं अन्तरा च नाळन्दं अद्धानमग्गप्पटिपन्‍नो होति महता भिक्खुसङ्घेन सद्धिं पञ्‍चमत्तेहि भिक्खुसतेहि।

Roman: Evaṃ me sutaṃ – ekaṃ samayaṃ bhagavā antarā ca rājagahaṃ antarā ca nāḷandaṃ addhānamaggappaṭipanno hoti mahatā bhikkhusaṅghena saddhiṃ pañcamattehi bhikkhusatehi.

Simple Pronunciation: evam me sutam - ekam samayam bhagavaa antaraa ca raajagaham antaraa ca naalandam addhaanamaggappatipanno hoti mahataa bhikkhu-sanghena saddhim pancamattehi bhkkhusatehi.

English Translation: Thus have I head - on one occassion, the Bhagava (the Exalted One) made a long journey from Rajagaha to Nalanda with a large company of bhikkhus numbering five hundred.

Links:

http://www.tipitaka.org/deva/
http://www.tipitaka.org/romn/
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/theravada/brahma1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmajala_Sutta_(Theravada)

Re: Perhaps you could...

http://telesterion.gaia.com — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 05:03:46 GMT

Well, sutras then. I knew that the pali canon wasn't in sanskrit and devanagari in it's original form, but I thought surely there must be versions of them somewhere written in sanskrit and devanagari?

I'm interested in the sutta pitaka because I think it has reasonably good claim to contain the oldest sutras in theri oldest forms. I have an interest in looking at the oldest texts.

If it's better to look to the north for ones in sanskrit and devanagari, then that sounds fine. The MahaBodhi translations sound good too.

This website looks like it might have what we would want. http://www.tipitaka.org/

Ha ha - all I have to do is look at the devanagari versions and I'm intimidated. Even the roman versions scare me. That's probably where I should start, with the roman.

Re: Perhaps you could...

http://assaji.gaia.com — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 04:19:33 GMT

I am also wondering isn't that be learning Pali instead of Sanskrit, because the Suttas in the Nikaya (southern tradition) are in the Pali language, unlike the Sutras in the Agamas (nothern tradition) which are written in Sanskrit. Another thing is Pali language does not necessarily use the Devanagiri scripts. It can be put in various scripts, because it does not have its own scripts like Sanskrit has. Anyway, there is also a version of the Pali Canon put into the Devanagiri scripts by the Mahabodhi society of India. I m not sure if the fonts used there would support the browser as well. So, anyway let me know before I post here whether to use a Sutta or the Sutra here, so that I can be sure of what you are specifically interested.

Re: Perhaps you could...

http://telesterion.gaia.com — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 08:25:40 GMT

I was wondering, do you have a favorite sutta, from the sutta pitaka, and can we find versions of it written in devanagari? Or, better, short and interesting sections of it written in devanagari?

It might help practicing interpeting devanagari if the writing was of something that would focus our attention and curiousity.

Devanagari still intimidates me. I'm beginning to understand better how it works, with consonant vowel combinations, but it still confuses me, and I want to practice recognizing the characters and the - "matras" - is that the right word?

I also need a glossary of words used in the suttas - I might have to start writing that for myself.

Re: Introduce Yourself and Tell us why are you interested in Sans

http://assaji.gaia.com — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:25:27 GMT

Hi friends, glad to see you joining the club.

Re: Perhaps you could...

http://assaji.gaia.com — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 07:39:36 GMT

Yeah it looked like natural roman diacritic when I pasted it into the editor too. Then later I realized "oh no", I have to change it. So what I did was I had to completely rewrite the two sentences using Bitstream Vera Serif with symbols that is found in the Linux Operating System (used in one of my Computers), which supports Roman Diacritic. This font also works well in the browser.

Btw, Bill, thanks for posting the link to the Online Sanskrit Dictionary. It's very useful here.

Re: Perhaps you could...

http://assaji.gaia.com — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 06:44:29 GMT

1. This doesn't do a good job of telling an english speaking person how to pronounce the words phonetically.

Yes, it doesn't usually for general people. I remember something similar happened to a group of new students whom I was helping. Well, however, if one is a regular Sanskrit student and a reader, it's important that he or she quickly becomes familiar with the standard Sanskrt phonetics (sounds). Because these words would appear again and again in every sentence.

2. Would you be willing to render the whole sentence in that type of simple phonetics?

Yes certainly I would be willing to render, but before that, just let me remind again that it is important to quickly learn the proper phonetics, because we can't everytime render every sentence in that type of simple phonetics right? We wouldn't be learning proper Sanskrit then. Anyway, here how it is simply pronounced:

astīti śāśvatagrāho nāstītyuccedadarśanaṁ

as-tii-ti shaa-shva-ta-graa-ho naa-stii-ty-ucce-da-dar-sha-nam

tasmād astitvanāstitve nāśrīyeta vicakṣaṇaḥ

tas-maat (*like Mother) as-ti-tva-naa-sti-tve naa-shrii-ye-ta vi-cak-sa-nah

3. In that sentence, where are the active verbs “is”?

It is a very good question. You see in Sanskrit language or even in Hindi and Bengali, the verb "Is" (asti/bhavati) is sometimes understood. So here especially in a poetic form of the Nagarjuna's verse, the verb of the first line is understood. It is not necessary to mention. I will give you an example. In Sanskrit if you translate this following English sentence: the person is beautiful. it will be this way: naraḥ sundaraḥ. The verb (asti or bhavati) is understood here. Asti usually means Is, to be, become, exist. In Sanskrit this verb is very flexible.

4. Could you talk a bit about the word(s) Nagarjuna uses for “nihilistic view”?

Nagarjuna here uses the term uccedadarśanaṁ for "nihilistic view". Ucceda literally means perishing, destruction, anihilation, ceasing and darśanaṁ means Seeing, Looking, Sight, View, or even holding. So here the translator says "nihilistic view", meaning holding the view of destruction (after death). Some people believe that with death, there is the destruction of a person. A person dies and no more rebirth for him or her. So for such views of people, Nagarjuna uses the term "uccedadarśanaṁ". These people are mainly the materialists, who enjoy life as much as possible, not worrying about the moral consequences of their actions (meaning even if they kill, lie, steal, misconduct, and take drugs, nothing will happen, since there is no more birth for them in the future). This is the expanded meaning of "uccedadarśanaṁ" (nihilistic-view).

Re: Perhaps you could...

http://telesterion.gaia.com — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 06:43:33 GMT

Here's something interesting - I just switched to a browser with no add-ons - and that browser displays roman diacritic just fine - both what I entered, and what True Eloquence entered.

Anyway, here's an image of roman diacritic, outlined in red.

And for everybody else, browser settings do affect the display of sanskrit here.

Re: Perhaps you could...

http://telesterion.gaia.com — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 06:10:39 GMT

That's strange - it turned roman diacritic into the same notation you were using.

But it looked like natural roman diacritic when I pasted it into the editor.

I guess the editor can handle roman diacritic, but the browser can't.

I'll grab an image of what I expect roman diacritic sanskrit to look like.

Re: Perhaps you could...

http://telesterion.gaia.com — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 04:03:36 GMT

It's possible my browser isn't showing the characters the same as yours is, because the characters you are writing look odd to me, and I don't understand them.

This is how I'm used to seeing sanskrit written in english letters... This is that first line from Nagarjuna.

astīti śāśvatagrāho nāstītyuccedadarśanaṁ

This doesn't do a good job of telling an english speaking person how to pronounce the words phonetically - but it's how sanskrit is commonly seen in western books.

For example, this character - ś - is prounced as "sh" in english, but, to an english reader, the first instinct would be to pronouce it as "sss".

Just to make simple, it is pronounced like: sha-shva-ta-graa-ho.

Thank you, that's very useful. Would you be willing to render the whole sentence in that type of simple phonetics?

Here's another dumb question for you - I'm sure the answer is obvious, but not to me.

In that sentence, where are the active verbs "is"?

The translation goes "Is" is (eternity-grasping), "Is-Not" is (nihilism). I've bolded the active verbs.

I find the verb "is" confusing in sanskrit - this page gives an exampel of some of the forms of "is" - http://www.spokensanskrit.de/index.php?script=HK&tinput=is&country_ID=&direction=AU

Also, if I haven't stretched your patience too far, could you talk a bit about the word(s) Nagarjuna uses for "nihilistic view"?

Re: Perhaps you could...

http://assaji.gaia.com — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 05:48:12 GMT

1. How would that be written in phonetic sanskrit english? These are written in the transliteration form. If you are already familiar with the transliteration form of the Vowels and the Consonants, then I am sure you can read and pronounce them much easily.

2. How would I translate this into a modern english sense? It is something like what you have already translated. Yeah you can translate the the second as “can make the mistake”…you are free to do that as long as it make sense, but there are the standard translation that academics have been using. So sometimes we have to consider that too. Well, translating is always a matter of choice.

3. Is “śāśvata (*been fixed here as well)” a suitable phonetic rendering for the “eternity” word? do you know the etymology of that sanskrit word? yes it is one of the standard translations of that word. In the dictionary if you look, there will be few more translations as well. I know the etymology of that sanskrit word (i.e. in Devanagiri form right? Is that what you mean?)

4. śāśvatagrāho - is that phonetically correct? Such a beautiful expression. “Eternity Grasping”. yes it is phonetically correct (if you follow the phonetic instrustions given in the posts). That's how it is written and pronounced. Just to make simple, it is pronounced like: sha-shva-ta-graa-ho.

Re: Introduce Yourself and Tell us why are you interested in Sans

Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:32:05 GMT

**hello & blessings to everyone!

I am very pleased to be joining you all in the study of Sanskrit. I have been a student of yoga for eight years and am now a teacher. The language of yoga has fascinated me from early on- the mantras I've learned resonate so wonderfully & I love both listening to and speaking them. My appreciation of Sanskrit has grown so much that I am eager to truly learn the language.

Thank you for starting this pod & inviting us to study together! Peace! **

Typing with Hindi Font

Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:49:56 GMT

Wanted to share this software I came across with everyone.
It comes for the Australian National University Hindi studies site
Its easy to install and use...enjoy
http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/hindi/tech/font.html

Re: Vowels and Consonants

http://szavanna.gaia.com — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:13:05 GMT

Thanks Assaji - yes I am happy to share throughts here - we are slowly getting there - it will take me time - since I am quite busy with other things as well - but definitely plan to devote this year to get to know sanskrit as much as possible.