Verse 7 - Living Beyond Ego

Re: Verse 7 - Advice from Dr Dyer

Re: Verse 7 - Advice from Dr Dyer

Re: Verse 7 - Advice from Dr Dyer -- Further teachings of Lao-tzu

In my opinion  “God”is not a suitable synonym for Dao, because I belief it is has nothing to do with an anthropomorphic “person”or “identity”. It cannot be seen with the naked eye and it creates and has created everything we know in the universe. Besides this Dao  is formless. “Nature or “being part of nature” are better words in my opinion re: the contents.
But I can undestand why he uses God because Christianity is the most common religion in native English speaking countries.
For a good explanation I refer to the Wenzi chapter one. Wenzi is also know in English as:
Further teachings of Lao-tzu
Shambala, Boston
1991 Thomas Cleary
 I don't have this book in English only in Dutch.
Now that we live in a time that technology and science have risen to a high standard, scientists found out that it has something to do with elements or gasses that started to interact and when the right circumstances where there, life was created. I read it in a scientific article last year, but I cannot find it anymore at Internet.

For the rest his suggestions are very good.:)

Re: Verse 7 - Advice from Dr Dyer -- Further teachings of Lao-tzu

I, also, am inclined to believe “God” is not an adequate/exact translation for Tao.
God being being implicitly anthropomorphic, the association with human characteristics imprints onto the Tao a host of human-like perspectives, morals, psychology, etc  that does not exist in that which before and beyond “perspectives, morals, psychology, etc”

Re: Verse 7 - Advice from Dr Dyer -- Further teachings of Lao-tzu

From Alan Watts’s “The Way of Zen”:

   The important difference between the Tao and the usual idea of God is that whereas God produces the world by making (wei), the Tao produces it by “not-making” (wu wei)—which is approximately what we mean by “growing.” For things made are separate parts put together, like machines, or things fashioned from without inwards, like sculptures. Whereas things grown divide themselves into parts, from within outwards.

Re: Verse 7 - The Tao of Motherhood - Vimala McClure

I got this book early in my awareness of the Tao.  I love some of the verses.  Verse 7 was especially meaningful to me as during the last 3-6 years I have nursed 2 infants and spent many nights walking my restless older son back to sleep within my arms in the dead of night.  There was something delicious about those quiet nights with the babies, supplied by an unimaginable energy of nurturing that came forth -

7 - Selflessness

Everything which endures can
only do so because Eternal
Consciousness gives it sentience.

A mother who gives herself
completely to her infant meets
herself in the dark and finds
fulfillment.

In the hours between midnight
and dawn, she crosses the
threshold of self-concern and
discovers a Self that has no limits.
A wise mother meets this
Presence with humility and steps
through time into selflessness.

Infants know when their mothers
have done this, and they
become peaceful.

Who, then, is the doer?  Is it the
infant who brings its mother
through the veil of self-concern
into limitlessness?  Is it the
mother, who chooses to hold
sacred her infant's needs and
surrender herself?  Or is it the
One, which weaves them both
through a spiraling path
toward wholeness?

You can sit and meditate while
your baby cries himself to sleep.
Or you can go to him and share
his tears, and find your Self.

Re: Verse 7 - The Tao of Motherhood - Vimala McClure

beautiful!
I do not begin to imagine knowledge of the sacred experience of motherhood–or the affect on those who become mothers–but this passage begins to hint to me (personally) some idea of the weaving of comforter/comforted, nurturer/nurtured.
Thank you, Deb.

Re: Verse 7 - GOD

Erick,

I so appreciate you coming here and sharing insights from your perspective.  Bringing up topics for discussion that others may not have thought to question or inquire into.  I think this is especially important and want to comment myself as well.  In fact, I would suspect many who come to Zaadz, and also to this particular pod, bring with them a long inquiry into the validity of the GOD concept.  I myself have been all over the place in this regard and believe it is highly limiting to consider the word GOD in a narrow Christian, especially ultra-conservative Christian, description and/or misinterpreted from dogma and/or stories passed down through centuries.

Lately, I've been reminded often that I have expanded these concepts within myself and certainly becoming aware of the Tao and realizing a Pagan bend to my personal inclinations have both played a role in this.  Science of Mind has worked diligently to redefine and expand the definition of the concept of GOD within their own philosophy.  Certainly Ernest Holmes was fond of the word and admired the work of Jesus as an example of the heights a man can reach.  There is a commonality to the word that has the ability to reach many diverse peoples.

The anthropomorphic idea which you describe, I have replaced personally with my concept of the ME, that aspect of my individual consciousness that is eternal and beyond this particular life experience but not all that is or can be or even is not.  Tao certainly encompasses that.  Just as science discovers ever more minute particles and aspects of materiality, so the universe informs us of ever larger aspects as well.  And then there is the non-physical, which every minute of every day seeks to make itself more and more evident to our consciousness.

So, you will not find me using that word much but obviously Dr Dyer has come to a sense of peace regarding its usage.  The use of it is capable also of reaching some who would shut out the message of expansion of concept, of possibility of effect, of responsibility for self and the larger picture, if it is eliminated.  It also, as you as wisely point out, is capable to shutting down or tuning out others who find its use disagreeable but it is generally my belief that those types of people are already expanded enough to weather its use.  Your post suggests that as well.

So, for my own self, I always choose to interpret any such religion specific or philosophy specific terms in the light of my own understanding and find no resistance nor warping from the effect of contact with them.  I was reminded of this yesterday at a local fall festival when I came in contact with some ultra-conservative Southern Baptists and realized how far I have traveled from their concept of life and its meaning.  I can not in good conscious acknowledge any concept that man has “fallen” or lives in sin, and at the same time, believe All is Well, which I do.  While I can express wonder at the possible metaphysical feats performed by the historic person of Jesus and the ability of the concept surrounding his image to draw massive amounts of energy 2,000 yrs later, I do not “need saving” by such a person or even expanded deity.  I am capable, with help from my own highly evolved inner guidance, of providing any adjustments I may require in the living of this physical time/space expression to find my own path to bliss.

I find that is the best path of all, regardless of who you are.  It is amazingly “customized” in that regard and for some, I must admit that, it may include more conventional and better known paths than my own.  So, I always allow that I do not know what is best for another and expect them to leave me to my own path by the same respectful attitude.

You, my friend, are always sincerely appreciated and welcome in the uniqueness of your expression as well.

Deb

Re: Verse 7 - GOD

Hi Deb,

Thank you very much for your extensive reply, thoughts. I have read it several times.
I appreciate it very much :)

Erick

Re: Verse 7 - Living Beyond Ego

Serve the needs of others,
and all your own needs will be fulfilled.
Through selfless action, fulfillment is attained.


These words, and yours on motherhood, bring to mind all the experiences where this comes true in my life. As we expand the sense we have of self to include all those around us; as we ask for “the highest good of all concerned”,  the boundaries between”self” and “not-self” are dimmed, “others” disappear, and it is the expanded self that acts, and also receives.

It is amazing how I discovered that one can truly serve “oneself” only when we have inculcated this in our daily life! Healing helps in this kind of awareness.

Re: Verse 7 - The Purpose of Life

There is an excellent essay on this verse at a Unitarian Universalist blog.  In fact, there are 11 other essays on the Tao at this blog site and over time, I hope to link to the other ones as well, to add depth to our study here.

The blog is titled Tao Te Ching - The Purpose of Life.  I got there by doing a google search on “Life Tao Te Ching” in order to add content to the One Light Many Windows project.  I personally made a commitment to myself to post Science of Mind, Taoist and Unitarian Universalist concepts to the project.  The UU is to honor my now deceased in-laws by learning about their source of spiritual inspiration through personal study.

The author, David G Markham, begins the essay (posted May 9, 2009) - “The three existential questions that humankind asks: Why was I born? What is the
purpose of my life? What happens when I die?”

You should go to the title link, to read the rest.  It isn't all that long.  

The author's point, I believe, is -

That in coming to understand how our personal expression of life is yet a part of the interdependent web of ALL life; we may also realize the eternal workings of life that indicate that we, as a part of “nature in form”, therefore do not “die”.

These thoughts, he weaves together with the words of this 7th verse -