Karma

Karma is a word that is known all over the world! It is often used in daily speech;
sometimes as a punishment : “I spoke badly of someone, and tripped. Instant karma!” or an act of God or a reward or punishment that someone/some power outside of us bestows on us, denoting both action and the fruit of action
“Karma” as a Sanskrit word, means “action”. The theory of karma, however, is more detailed,  and will be explored in different posts on this thread.

In Tattva Bodhah, Adi Sankaracharya introduces Karma after an explantion of the Jeevanmukta, or liberated  human beings.

“By immediate knowledge that I am Brahman alone, one becomes free from bondage of all karmas [actions].”

Swami Tejomayanda's commentary:

By immediate action of the Self one does not gain any special powers, unworldly experiences or worldly achievements. One need not stp worldly actions or do something extraordinary.

Knowledge does not create anything new. It only removes the ignorance of the Self. The false notion that I am finite, is removed.

[see the difference between action from ignorance and from a realized soul]
With this, the discussion moves to different types of karma.

Re: Karma

In Bhagwad Gita, the concept of Karma has been discussed in great details. Verse 17 of Chapter 4 states:

Karmano hyapi boddhavyam boddhavyam cha vikarmanah
akarmanashcha boddhavyam gahana karmano gatih

The truth about Karma (actions) must be known and the truth about Vikarmana (forbidden action) also must be known; and also the truth about akarmana (inaction) must be known; for mysterious is the nature of action.

Re: Karma- who's in charge?

We all know that actions lead to result. We also know that the results need not be immediately apparent.

Our actions and inactions both influence our life and that of those around us.

I think it is very important when studying karma,to determine for ourselves, which power we feel/know/sense determines the outcome of our action/inaction.

Fate? Destiny? God? Higher power? Unknown power?

To me, it seems that it is universal laws that determine what happens, and perhaps even what we do. There is a fluidity here, where the force of our own choices determine the outcome. As I look to different sources to study this, for this pod; perhaps things will become clearer.

What is the necessity of studying karma? It is to determine the daily questioning that we have: 
What will happen if I act/don't act?
How did this happen/not happen?
Is my life pre-determined?
Do I have a say in how my life turns out?

Each of us needs to figure this out for ourselves. We take the help of
ancient wisdom in understanding this; but it is what we understand, believe, know and feel that determines the quality of our life.

I am looking forward to this ongoing enquiry in this thread!

Re: Karma- Three Kinds

There are different sources in Indian texts, for classifying karma; the actions which determine the quality of our life on earth.

In  the Tattva Bodha, Adi Sankaracharya focused on these three kinds of karma:

Agami: What you sow today, you reap tomorrow.
“As you sow, so shall you reap”

Sanchita: The result of actions performed in [all] previous births which are in seed form to give rise to millions of re-births. These have been described as Arrows in the Quiver*. If we think about it, this is the karma that causes the subtle soul to become “heavy” enough to manifest a physical-emotional body.

Prarabdha : From the total capital of Sanchita karma, those actions which have fructified to give us the present birth and teh experiences in it, are prarabdha karma. These are likened to Arrows in Flight*. This may come closest to what we believe is pre-destiny.

~~~~~

I study karma within that larger perspective that the liberated ones/jivanmukta look to karma not as reward and punishment; but as choices that we make.


*[source of descriptions Janarrdhana Guptha]

Re: Karma

Eli, is there more from the Geeta, about the three types of action; that you'd like to post?

We can discuss this, for our study here before I go into further details.

Re: Karma

Three types of Karma, as stated in JnanaKarmaSanyasaYoga section of Bhagwad Gita, are Karma, Vikarma, and Akarma.

Introducing this classification in verse 16, Bhagwad Gita states:

kim karma kimkarmeti kavayoapyatra mohitah
tatte karma pravakshyami yajjatva moksyaseashubhat

What is action, what is inaction, as to this even the wise are confused. Therefore, I will explain to you what is action, by knowing which you will be liberated from its evil effects (of worldly bondages).

 He who remains unattained while performing actions knows the truth about actions which is described in verse 18 of the same section as follows:

karmanyakarma yah pashyedkarmani cha karma yah
sa buddhimanmanushyeshu sa yuktah krtsnakarmakrt

He who sees inaction in action and action in inaction is wise among men, he is Yogi and he has performed all his duties.

(seeing action in inaction means to remain unattached during performance or non-performance of actions. It means that performance or non-performance is not for the self.)

A man has to to take birth either to get out of debt or to receive debts from other of all previous births, the Sanchita Karmaphala and the prarabdha karmaphala.  To to get rid of this cycle he has to close this account.  In verse 23 of JnanaKarmaSanyasaYoga section, Bhagwad Gita discusses the Karma which would help a person to close this account as follows:

gatasangasya muktasya jnanavasthitachetasah
yajnayacharatah karma samagram praviliyate

All the actions of a man who is devoid of attachment, who is liberated, whose mind is established in knowledge, who works for the sake of sacrifice (service to the Lord), are dissolved.

Explaining the concept of Vikarma (inaction) further, verse 20 states thusly:

tyaktva karmaphalasangam nityatripto nirashrayah
karmanyabhipravrttopi naiva kinchitkaroti sah

Having abandoned attachment to actions and their fruits, ever content, without any kind of dependence, he does nothing (inaction) though fully engaged in action.

This state of inaction leads to closing the account and this is the goal of a “Karmayogi” as described in Verse 21 :

nirashiryatachittatma tyaktasarvaparigraha
shariram kevalam karma kurvannapnoti kilbisham

Having no desires, with his mind and body fully subdued, giving up all sorts of possessions, even performing action necessary only for the maintenance of the body, a Karmayogi incurs no sin.

Re: Karma

Sanmugan, who's a member of this pod too; has a discussion thread on Karma on his pod, Ancient wisdom.

Re: Karma

I liked what Michael Bernard Beckwith had to say about Karma in his book Spiritual Liberation - Fulfilling Your Soul's Potential (Chap 10 Don't Get Serious, Get Real, pg 134)

In the East, individuals are burdened with a belief in bad karma.  The law of karma works in such a way that what we put out into the world returns to us.  In contemporary parlance, what goes around comes around.  Karma does not determine our destiny.  Our karma can only determine a starting point, but it can never determine our destiny.  Our destiny is determined by our attitude and character, which are constantly being formed through our moment-by-moment choices.  Our attitudes form our character, and our character determines our destiny.  So regardless of the mistakes we have made, we do not have to languish in a belief system that states, “I'm suffering in this lifetime because of errors from previous incarnations”.  No !  As you evolve, your destiny changes because destiny is a dynamic, energetic flux.

Just for fun, I've attached John Lennon's Instant Karma video at YouTube.  I liked what one of the commentors said about it -

“John was playing with words.  It's hard enough to write a great song without
trying to make perfect sense.  John said he got the idea from 'instant
coffee'.  So, instead of karma catching up someday, like in
religion (Heaven, Hell).  He was saying whatever you do (good or bad) has an
immediate effect on your life and other people's lives and we have the ability
to change how we live “instantly.” 

Re: Karma

Thanks for posting that Beckwith statement. I totally agree with that. I have never believed in the destiny from “bad karma” from past lives. It is a belief system that for ages has been misused socially to keep the “untouchable caste” in their place and kept them from participating in most human rights.

Re: Karma

Re Beckwith's comments:
Of course, a throwaway comment like “In the East” is difficult to pinpoint; because, coming from  a country in the East, I wonder - is that directed towards me, because it's not the way I see karma, or is it directed towards those who think that way, because I've seen them in the west and the east!

Anyway, getting over that hurdle, I personally don't believe in either bad or good karma. What I believe in, for myself, is the necessity of getting out of the bondage of karma, per se. Both “good” and “bad” -  because so many of our day to day actions can't be assessed as good or bad period. What's good today [persuading a child to have milk, e.g., “because they need calcium”] may turn out to be bad tomorrow [e,g, it was spoiled milk, and I didn't know]

So why do I want karma as something to get out of? Not action, but karmic action?  It's because when we are attached to karma/ action as something “I have done” then I am also attached to the fruit of that action. But if I do the actions that come to me to do, as a flow from a higher source, and if I am willing to take responsibility, but not ownership, to see it through and accept the outcome without thinking of them as either reward or punishment; then that subtle difference frees me from the bondage of my action.

Going back to the phrase ”In the East, individuals are burdened with a belief in bad karma”, I first smiled, because I could see all easterners bent under a heavy burden, and it seemed so …unreal. Then I felt, let me address this.

I guess that it's difficult to understand the nations of the east.  They are so old, and yet the people are so varied. It depends on what your 'soul' remembers, what you have read, what you have accepted of what you read, and so on.
Personally,
 when I read any text - whether from ancient or newer authors, known and unknown, that lump “others” into one bracket, I cringe. I know how important it is to some thinkers to neatly tie “the east” into a package. Unfortunately, I feel left out of that package. And my parents, who never mentioned the word karma in this way; or my relatives or friends.  Usually, at this point, I'm told: “But your'e not real Indians.” Hmmm…

So let's see those who are “real Indians”, i.e. those who have in front of me, used the phrase “bad karma.” Usually, I've seem people use it when they feel overwhelmed,  at a loss to know what to do. Rather than something that causes fatalism; it causes an acceptance of those situations that they cannot accept. I completely agree that taken to extremes, this is defeatist. I agree that ”So regardless of the mistakes we have
made, we do not have to languish in a belief system that states, “I'm
suffering in this lifetime because of errors from previous
incarnations”.  No !  As you evolve, your destiny changes because
destiny is a dynamic, energetic flux.”


Actually, that is what the theory of karma says as well. So what I read from Beckwith, is that he gets the idea of life; but perhaps not quite the depths…yet.

How arrogant this sounds! But it came through, and I allowed it to come. Making no expectations but willing to take responsibility for the outcomes of this post - agreeing/disagreeing/ pointing out other insights to me, intend that it is sent out for the highest good of all concerned, clear my energy, and then coming as close as possible to non-karmic action…take the action of hitting “Post Reply.”

[Thank you for your posts, Deb and Alluvja!'

Re: Karma

There's no such thing as non-karmic action per my understanding of the terminology, but I catch your drift.  Cause and Effect another Universal Law..
Library stuff on Karma
check out the Video..
AUM (OM)

Re: Karma

Meenakshi,

I think the point you make about lumping a whole category of people “in the East” together is an important point and Beckwith, as a minority who is sure to have been equally “lumped” somehow would probably hang his head in embarrassment, to have been caught doing the same himself.

You should also, I go out on a limb here, but collapse that negative energy that your reaction has shown you.  Of course, it isn't justified and it is wrong.  And that may be all that you need to realize and then, chalk it up to ignorance and poor choice of language, that was never the intent of the paragraph written, to do what has now been revealed that it has done.  

I believe the intent was only that last part you highlighted.  I believe the important thing is that Destiny is a dynamic, energetic flux - not stable or stagnant.  Actually, I would hazard to put forth that “Destiny” is a non-Real concept, especially if living in the Now ;-}

I'm am pleased you hit the “post reply” button because this needed to be aired and collapsed.  In doing so, we apply positive energy to all who read those same words.

Hugs and Love -
Deb

Re: Karma

Yes! It goes… Thank you dear Deb.

Re: Karma

In fact, when I'd first written ” It is often used in daily speech;
sometimes as a punishment” in the first post in this thread; I was about to say “In the West”–and then deleted that. We each have these tendencies; and no…no need of shame, that'll just deepen the darkness; just a gentle smile at that gentle soul and we pass on.
Just using words are karmas that can bind us in a spiral!

Re: Karma

Meenakshi,

Smiling at the synchronicities of learning … you just were quick enough to catch yours quickly …

Deb

Re: Karma

I catch your drift


Lovely!


At one stage, I decided I have to work things out for myself; and THEN find quotes for what I felt intuitively to be true. Each master teaches different teachings to different students. Each student learns depths as s/he goes along. It's not even about higher and lower ; it's just about filling in the entire painting. Seeing all aspects to get at it.
Because there are so many layers of truth; that in our denser levels of understanding in which we communicate in words, it is difficult to convey; that when we be truth, that is all there is…