Gaia Bashing at Facebook

I had a long heart-felt response to a Gaian in Exile at Facebook this morning, that I thought it worth sharing with you, and perhaps discussing it here (should any feel like it) this diaspora, as those there themselves like to think of it.  What it really feels like, and what is expressed there, is a kind of backlash against spirituality in general; and Gaian spiritually specifically.  

It reminded me that I had also wanted to share Michael Bernard Beckwith's definition of the difference between being religious and being spiritual from his book Spiritual Liberation - Fulfilling Your Soul's Potential -

 ”Religion is comprised of concrete dogmas, while spirituality is comprised of direct realization of the Real”.  And regarding mystics (which is what I have come to define myself as at this point in my life) - “While theologians may intellectually touch upon the abstract, mystics commune with the Real, merging their consciousness with its qualities.  Theologians may argue, but mystics agree.”  

“In the mystical awareness, one hears the inaudible and sees the invisible, not with the senses but with the soul-faculties.  Then, there is no need to argue; there is nothing left to argue about because the soul knows, and knows that it knows, what it has realized in deep communion with the Self.”

“Many mystics use the word beloved when attempting to share their realization of ecstatic communion.  Their poetry and writings use anthropomorphic language in an attempt to describe the indescribable because it is the closest they can come to expressing the intimate nature of the Impersonal.  Even reading the works of Rumi, Kabir, Hafiz, Mirabai, St Theresa of Avila and St John the Divine can transport us to a blissful state.”

“Spiritual discernment is a direct, intuitive perception of the Real.  Seers, sages, beholders, and mystics occupy this realm.”

“Through meditation we transcend the personal mind and begin to see not with eyesight but with insight.”

“When you realize that the Spirit individualized itself and named itself you, you unhook yourself from nonsense, such as what others are thinking about you, or even what you are thinking about yourself.  Instead, you begin to ask, “How is the Spirit of Life functioning in, through, and as me?”  Place that question before the tribunal of your consciousness more and more frequently, and you will begin to attune yourself to insights from the realm of the Real.  You will break the thought-chain of belief in a personal mind, a mind filled with self-doubts that hold you hostage and cause lack of fulfillment.  It is possible to end that false cycle of thinking right now, if you are willing to deepen, to make your spiritual practices a priority.”

I'll share my Facebook repsonse in a reply comment below.

Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Just the fact that you wrote a long note lets me know you “care”. I would never take personally being “deleted” and honestly, I rarely go back to see what happened, unless a notification brings me. What occurs in your space is just that - “yours” - and you have every right to do whatever you want to do.

Your mini-blog felt like Gaia bashing and I see that was the intent. No dissent or balanced perspective allowed. I wasn't and am not “angry” but I felt a very strong impulse, that I could not authentically deny, to balance the one-sided nature of what was there. I regret that it did not occur to me, that those posting there are so sensitive and vulnerable and prone to second-guessing themselves, that they can't take a look at how extremely ”one-sided” what they are saying is. I guess you are among those but I love you none-the-less.

I did think that it should not be “Gaian spirituality is all fake” - it is not. “Gaians are self-centered do-gooders who don't care about anyone but themselves” - they are not. “Gaians never admit they have bad days” - this one does - often. “Gaians don't live in the Real world” - we do.

I have long known - and that is why, until you lured me to Facebook (something I still regret on some level, as my business work does not get done with nearly the
productivity it should) - I did not WANT to join. I have known from the time
Zaadz merged into Gaia, that Gaians being on Facebook is, without a doubt, an
in-your-face protest against what they see as Gaia's shortcomings. That is why I
about fell over to find Siona and Brian there but they have “social” reasons,  just as most Facebookers do.

How “spiritual” would Gaia truly be? if we denied learning and growth experiences, to those we judged “inadequate” or “flawed”. We would be equally flawed to judge and I hope we don't, for the most part. But for the grace of God there go I. Do I like seeing some get hurt by insensitive souls? Of course not, and I'm one of the first to put my own neck on the line to counter it - as you very well know. But Siona and I have had long conversations privately about such and I understand the reasons and it is NOT purely commercial, though there may be some amount of that (numbers being an important factor in supporting the site).

I have had a very public go at the person you recently had trouble with for
blatant sexual / gender insensitivity. Third party interested Gaians worked long and hard for a sanitized “public” reconciliation between me and that person. It was not to be a reconciliation, neither of us could convince the other. It took loads of time to realize that was the Reality of it. In the end, we identified common ground and agreed that we still disagreed regarding much but that we had made Peace with that fact. 

I don't hate Facebook but it does not shine for me, like it seems to for so many others and I can't help that it shows. I'm not all “oh this is the best, most perfect, social online community yet”. I don't believe that in the least. There is no right or wrong about it though - Gaia and Facebook fulfill very different needs and objectives for their members. It just is that some people need loads of light weight socializing and others are on a more serious path. The truth of the matter is that, there is an extreme need for spiritual action or humanity is going to experience a huge die off, probably will - no matter what we do. It is
probably already a minute until midnight and nothing we do will matter in the
least, and I trust my God that it is, what it must be, to balance things for the
best. 

An unusual number of very spiritually mature individuals have incarnated
at this time and the fact is - many are drawn deliberately to Gaia to do
spiritual work. Those that aren't called, don't really need to be there but all
are welcome who come. It is to the benefit of all that those who have no
interest in, or capability to participate in, spiritual work to find the place -
ie Facebook - that fits their needs more closely.

I honor you for your bravery and for your honesty in writing me. These are simply my heart felt thoughts for you alone and I have no anxiety about expressing them from my heart without holding back or reservations. I do not need “public attention” (I would be happy with even less than I get) and I do not need to be “right”, I am not a master nor an expert on anything. But I am a spiritual person, not a religious one with dogma to defend, but a mystic who seeks only a quiet,
personal relationship to the God who has made itself known to me. 

And honoring that, I am there for others who come to me (and many seem drawn to seek my understanding or whatever it is that brings them, it is beyond my understanding really, for I am so very ordinary and love nature most). I do have work to do and Gaia makes it possible for me to join my energy with those whose spiritual sight is actively engaged upon such. Only a small percentage “need” to be like that (which Siona has made clear to me in discussions about the role of Facebook vs Gaia), for the work that needs to be done, to accomplish taking us to the next level of human expression, which likely will occur with the energies coming in 2012. No, the world isn't ending, but through something called Morphic Resonance - the 100th Monkey effect, no one will be left behind - and all others will simply evolve without any conscious effort on their part.

I love you. I'm sorry that the dramas at Gaia affect you so keenly. That shows a true sensitivity that is actually good. I'd rather sensitives fill the world around me, than thick shelled oafs. It is interesting that I never feel “harmed” by even the
most intense dramas that come closest to my individual self.

I will go out and do Radical Forgiveness on myself today - for having tainted your blog and necessitating the removal of my comments - and attempt to be more accepting (which I really think I do accept all just as they are, but to have caused such a reaction in you, something is not “perfect” there) regarding my “attitude” towards Gaians in Exile who prefer Facebook and love to publically bash Gaia, I need to let go of the belief that it exists (whether that is true or not, it
causes me to react).

As a Gaian whose heart is at Gaia, I can not help but feel those words in your blog were directed at me, as well as any other ”spiritually inclined” - note religous is what I believe you are really objecting to, but spiritual is the word you use there and so, I must “accept” that at face value. Whether I'm one of the “good” guys or not, spirituality is important to me, and I sense more than anything a backlash against spirituality by you and those of like mind who so publically make it out to be fake and conceited somehow. So, that is also some of the negative energy I need to collapse within my own self. Work I will do today - on that you can depend.

I do love you for being you or would not change anything about you to make that person more perfect for me as a friend - I also wrote so much because I “care” about and respect you too.

Hugs -
Deb

(Disclaimer - Note that this is, just as it was written, except anything of a personal nature, mentioning names that do not merit revealing in this public way, have been deleted from this post, out of consideration for each and every one of them, equally loved by me, regardless of the specific circumstances that are discussed privately in this note, which is part of an oncoming conversation regarding Gaian personalities and situations).

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Lyrics to the Moody Blues video / song “I Just Don't Care” for those who care about such - 

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Talk about powerful.  Just the thought of doing a Radical Forgiveness session openned up the flood gates to healing.

Went to Yoville, and my Gaian Friend in Exile who I wrote to above - found me - and we had the sweetest possible heart to hearts about everything under the sun.  Not a shred of bad feeling between us and it is all good and very good and more importantly, understood that is the reality of it.

There was never a “problem” between us but I do sense issues within some hearts re: Gaia and what it means and FB and how it fits.

There is a place for both, and I was trying to indicate that I recognize that clearly.  There is no need to bash Gaia for being what it is here to be, in order to enjoy what FB has to offer too.

Whole, perfect and complete - yes we are already all of that and more … to be discovered on this fascinating journey through time and space (including that non-physical virtual world many of us inhabit significant portions of our days …)

Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Thanks for sharing Deb. I'm on FB and connect to a few friends and family.

I'm very protective as to who I allow as 'friend' on FB. I've actually had to delete a couple of people. I've only had that issue once here concerning the person you were talking about above. I deleted him as 'friend'.

I love the Gaia community and I feel it draws the right people. Those that want to bash, I say let them have at it. Suppressing it can lead to illness, expressing can lead to healing.

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Thanks, Denise - your last line, I got it.

Good that it is there at FB, that energy, and not so much here.  I'm thinking of it now as “therapy for disillusioned Gaians”, and I understand now, that's healing.

This incident itself brought healing, by airing our feelings honestly to one another, when we came together later, the feeling was so natural, the energy clear, our interaction totally at peace with one another.

Thanks for being a good friend, you helped me shift my own perspective and now I understand the role this plays.  I was perplexed by it before.

All is well - truly,
Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

That's a lovely perspective Flowerchild and at the same time, I love the way Deb handled it.  Beautiful from every perspective….thank you.

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

I do business on Facebook, I'm on Gaia because it is NOT Facebook.

I'm glad there are no applications here and that there is a focus.

I enjoy finding people a whole lot better on Gaia than on Facebook.

I see people using Gaia and Facebook for two different reasons. Facebook is great for staying connected to your Friends, Family, Business Associates (Linkin too?) and most of all School friends. MySpace, good for finding bands, that is how it began.

Gaia is my place for a social group of friends whos goals are wholesome, ideas inspire me, and presence charges me.

I agree with helenrscp, Flowerchild made a great point. Let them bash if it heals them. I just hope they do it in a quiet little corner on FB and not here.

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Helen, Yancey, thanks for drawing my attention back to what Denise / Flowerchild had said - again.  And, you are correct, it is a quiet little corner and it's healing, I believe it is a “healing” place and now understand too, why it needs to be “safe” to bash there and free to pro-Gaian sentiment.  It all makes such perfect sense now.

It has been so worth it to bring these musings to share with you for your perspectives have really helped my thoughts form and what I couldn't express easily in words before, now is crystal clear.

What a wonder we are together as a group for each other …

Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

I have been feeling this discomfort between two social networks that can, after all, coexist in our minds as they do in cyberspace. I see no reason why there should not be open windows and comings and goings to different spaces; no reason to be uncomfortable or feel the need for being guilty at being on Facebook and Gaia.
And for that matter, on MySpace or any other. That exactly is the difference between exclusive religions and all-inclusive religion or spirituality.

It's not as if one is spiritual and the other is not. I've encountered similar behavior in both places though I have to admit I'm rarely on Facebook inspite of spiritual friends from other places who I've again met there.

A while back,  I'd started a discussion on open windows, in Gaia Networking and have been realizing that perhaps my intent has not been clear enough.

Deb, thank you for bringing this here; however painful and uncomfortable it must have seemed. So are you saying that there is a place on Facebook that Gaia is being attacked on?

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Meenakshi,

This isn't going to be expressed well, I fear.  I'm “feeling” something that's hard to put into words but I will try.  I think it is an inner conflict within some who belong to Gaia and have pulled away more to FB, due to disliking some things here, sort of, and believing FB “rights all the wrongs” they feel are here.  It is a very “judgmental” kind of perspective.

The ones I am speaking of are in both places and I have no problem with that, I'm in both places.  What concerned me is that when here, all is fine with Gaia - mostly (though some of these grumble a bit here).  Then, over at Facebook, it's Gaia is bad because of [a], [b] and [c].

As in my examples above, it isn't as strong as “attack”, it's more like negative perceptions that everyone piles onto to (these are all Gaian experienced) saying - “oh, yeah, that's what I see there too”.  It is like being “spiritual” bothers them, and they indicate Gaians don't care about other people, can't understand “pain” or “suffering”, hold some people to unrealistic expectations of human expression, don't give them enough attention or import.  I don't find any of that here, I've been here ? is it a year and a half or two?  I just thought it seemed like, words fail me, but like dissing or bashing, where one starts it and a bunch of others pile on.  That's all.  I couldn't “pile” on, I don't feel that, it's not my experience here.

I've never understood why some people are so “bothered”.  I started to notice it when Gaia bought Zaadz.  Perhaps, what it is, is that they “hold Gaia to a higher standard than Facebook”, it feels like that is their expectation.  It seems like it is high expectations that disappoint them, in not being “real”, like idealism.  So cause a backlash of recriminations.  

I think the standards are not necessarily higher (can that exist?) but more “defined and  focused” here, a different “quality” of personalty is drawn here and for some reason, some who have been drawn here, seem also to recoil from that or be disappointed in those who are “developing in the energetic accelerator that is Gaia” but not quite living up to these dis-satisfied persons expectations or “standards”.  Perhaps, the people involved have some belief in inadequacy or insecurity that being here causes them suffering.  And there is definite “problems” within some, that some people are allowed to stay, who are deemed by them to merit banishment.  I can de-friend, or even block, and still allow someone to remain here and grow.

I was lured to Facebook by a discussion “Gaia vs Facebook”.  I was already aware of this schism.  I only wanted to understand why the perception, of bailing out in anger, why the idea it is a diaspora?  I still don't “get it”, the perception.  

In this case, there was all this “bashing” going on and I couldn't authentically join in, I didn't feel it was how it is for me, so I spoke up in defense of Gaia and Gaians, as in “that's not my experience”.  Obviously, pro-Gaia sentiments were so “not wanted”, made those “complaining” feel less safe to do so, that my comments were deleted and then, I got a long apology letter as to why.  My response is in response to that explanation.

We are at peace with one another, this person and I, we are really friends.  I can be friends with someone, genuinely care about their welfare and still not “understand” their perspective.  It's nothing personal between us.  It is that some Gaians (still belonging here but spending more time at FB than here) are conflicted about Gaia and so talk “publically” at FB against the Gaia community.  I don't see the need.  I do believe they each serve different purposes and I definitely feel more “exposed” and less safe there at FB and warmly embraced and safe to be who I authentically am, here at Gaia.

Deb

Thanks to all of you dear friends here, who brought your personal perspectives to my experience. 

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Oh I understand better now, Deb; and so much of what you've written is what I've wanted to convey too [except that luring to FB but I know what you mean ;p]

Energetically it is best to clear our energy of people who leave or places that we leave. The difficulty with those who straddle both worlds, is that they feel  that those on Gaia feel bad about them being on FB. That is an energy that I hope we all learn to stay away from.

Ironical that the very thing they seem to not like about Gaia - that they felt suppressed from saying what they feel - they are now doing on Facebook. Talking about that illusion of ego on the other thread; it's not so much abt Gaia or Facebook; it 's the energy we are wearing that dictates our actions.  I guess everyone learns and experiences what we have to. Thanks again for clarifying this for me. I'd better go to sleep now…

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Wow, interesting discussion.  I never imagined that there could be “dueling” social networks.  Not knowing all of the background of this particular situation and not being a prolific social networker (although I'm enjoying this one), it just seems bizarre to me that people would have the time or inclination to bash another site.  Are these people who hold strong fundamentalist Christian beliefs?  Lord knows if encountered their wrath on more than one occasion for my beliefs.  Guess all we can do is keep doing what we do. I choose not to devote energy to what others, whom I don't know and have no connection with, think about my social networks or ME fo that matter. I think it was Wayne Dyer who I heard state, “what you think of me is none of my business.” (and this time I promise not to include an 8x10 glossy of myself to this posting!)

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

John-David,

Interestingly, it is NOT religious at all.  It is a backlash against spirituality and in particular, the spiritual persons who are part of Gaia.  Very interesting energies playing out in this realm.  

No, it isn't necessary for any other to be drawn into this with me but I'm thankful for the insights of my friends here in the Living Metaphics group because it helped me work through what is going on there.  

Alot has also been “confirmed” privately to me through someone I respect that my “judgments” are not mine alone, but others have been “affected” by these energies, from this person especially.

BTW, I'm familiar with the quote - it is by Terry Cole Whittaker, a familiar face in Science of Mind magazine.  Gosh, she has been around with that thought for a very, very long time.

Thanks for dropping by this morning and for your comments here.

Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Dear Deb,
It is with great interest and also a bit of amazement that I've read this thread.
Interest because I have such great respect for you as a friend as well as the fact that you are such a devoted member of our Gaia community and also because I have a great heart for Gaia.  AND I am very much enjoying FB experience as well.  Amazement because it is a bit beyond me to be quite honest why this issue for you  has taken on the proportions it has.
Yes, and I know these people too, there are a copple of people who needed a break from Gaia for whatever reasons they come up with, but I don't see that as anything to worry about. You'll find that kind of thing happening all the time everywhere.
Aside from a copple of people “bashing”  at Gaia I dont experience any negative attitude towards Gaia from my many Gaian FB friends. The majority are still blogging and commenting happily at Gaia. I really don't see a problem. Like mentioned before the two sites can't really be compared, they have different functions.
The word diaspora was actually mentioned by a friend just for fun and I also brought it out a bit more as a joke. For many GAIA is still the real Homeland! Initially I went there to contact some old long lost American friends and to explore a different site and then much to my suprise I found that a lot of Gaia people were over there, I had no idea of that before I joined FB.
The fact that Samme created an FB Gaia community and that I created a house for  getting together, to me is only a dedication as well as an expansion and advertisement to Gaia. I tell non Gaians on FB about it. I made Gaia friends on FB that I hadn't met yet on Gaia and now we're friends on Gaia too. And because of the chatting functions over there we got to know each other a bit better a lot faster, which is also a plus for our communication on Gaia.
Isn't the function of Gaia to be a community that is wanting to be the change we want to see in the world. And the world is not just the “On line Gaia here” but we are to take it out in our lives. And that's being done in many ways. I think that would be a signal of the succes of Gaia.
When people grow, and I know you know this, resistance and bashing out at whatever is part of the proccess. And to me it is fine for people to express that.
I really dont want to compare the 2 sites, people are people and therefore “stuff” will always come up, no matter where they are or what the situation is. And I also think it's ok when there are elements of Gaia that are likened less by some people. Gaia is not perfect, Gaia is also still growing, learning, expanding and I personally love it, but that doesn't have to mean I'm in synch with all of its aspects. And that is ok too.
I just don't understand why it became such an issue to you. Could it be that it is a conflict within you perhaps?
I love to see you at Yoville just as I love to see you here. As far as I'm concerned the only problem is time and keeping a better balance between off/and on line time, which to me has gotten out of hand at times to be truthfull.
So it becomes a matter of choices and priorities and that's for everyone to decide for themselves.
Holding you in great respect and Love,
Lucienne.

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Lucienne,

You are quite correct, it was out of proportion in truth and yet, it was because [a] I've long heard disillusioned murmurings “I'm fed up with [x] at Gaia and so, I'm leaving and going to FB !”  [b] I've never quite understood what FB offered, that was not available here at Gaia (of course, now I know that it offers Yoville, but I first experienced such here at Gaia, thanks to Ariela and Google's Lively, which unfortunately was not lasting, due to a decision made by Google that, I presume, it didn't generate enough income).There is much I feel is time wasting fluff at FB and so, to limit my on-line time, I limit the amount of time I spend there but the dearness of friends like you who are there, gives me motivation to put up with the less agreeable aspects and vulnerabilities, exposure and less than safe feeling I get there - it is too public for my private inclinations  [c] I was lured to FB by a dear, still dear, friend's blog there title “Gaia vs Facebook”.  And that sentiment expresses a deep conflict within that person.

Now, I have come to understand much more because of this contemplation and experience - that these are only a few - but some are actually quite serious in seeing it as a diaspora, while they may “joke”, they directly tell me of true feelings, unapologetically, that Gaia is deeply flawed.  Most of the other Gaians who are there ARE straddling the 2 worlds comfortably, and really, I put myself in that group.  

I also now understand, that having a space at FB - to express those pained, negative feelings that are aligned with [a] - is healing - and that I should stay out of those energies, because clearly, I have understood since I first ran into them, that they aren't mine.  That doesn't make them wrong.  As my friend Denise / flowerchild so aptly pointed out, it is very necessary for health, to express those feelings.  I have definitely seen the energy of my dear friend who inspired all this dip very low of late into depression.

I needed to go through this, to get all these realizations and understandings clear, for myself.  You, dear Lucienne, I have missed, while you have needed to spend so much time there at FB, to build that most wonderous space for Gaians to interact within, and you have my heartfelt appreciation for bringing back into my life, what I lost when Lively closed.  

I know you have a Gaian heart and I am happy the beautiful energies that are you and Ariela are shining there, for those who need, at FB - to heal hurts they feel were inflicted upon them at Gaia and deeply unforgivable by the actions of some insensitive Gaians.  I like your clear perception and it rings true in this regard - “people are people and therefore “stuff” will always come up.”  

What bothered me was that Gaia was being blamed for what were really “personal” issues but I am okay with it, now that I realize that is the truth of it, and not something I somehow “missed” as a deep flaw here, as bad behavior here, that I had not given enough importance to.  I came to this with the same attitude as your quote above, but what I saw was, the other “more encompassing” attitude being used very publically, I understand now, it is a form of denial, a denial of personal responsibility.

Anyway, yes, there was conflict within me, you are quite right about that.  Tthat made me feel I must defend my personal experiences at Gaia, when that defense was un-necessary, un-wanted, and not called for.  A huge learning experience for me that goes right along with the Verse 57 of the Tao Te Ching, which we have most recently been studying here.

You are a most wonderful emissary for Gaia in the outside world.  Your abilities as such far surpass my own.  It is only that we each have our unique roles to play.  That's what completes the whole.

In deep appreciation and respect for you as well, my friend -
Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Thank you Deb,
It is so amazing to see how we all grow together, and yet all reflecting different aspects of certain issues going on.
You're saying: “It is only that we have our unique roles to play. That's what complements the whole.”  makes perfect sense in this respect.
I have only become aware of theses certain roles I play recently, I kind of flowed into it naturally, I never looked for them really. And they will probably change too as we change.
It is so interesting for me to discover how these different roles I'm fullfilling in this community at the same time fullfill certain needs in my private life. The wisdom of Spirit is so Allcompassing, I'm totally amazed and grateful for that. It really gets me emotional even while writing this. Have a tissue please….
It's all good, thank you God and so it is.
Big Hugs,
Lucienne

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Thanks for all of this reflection, it helps with my growth. I respect and love everyone here even though sometimes we don't see eye to eye.
The kicker is I found a great video on youtube just thinking about all this.
Now were to post it :-)

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Hi, Deb and everyone else.

I’m a “Gaian in Exile”—a member of the so-called “diaspora”—and someone familiar with the topic Deb has brought up. I know quite a few such Gaians—between 35 and 40—and have done some informal research on this (in response to Deb's questions to me about it a couple months). I wrote a blog on FB asking folks what was happening and why) that happened to be called “Gaia vs. Facebook.” It was an attempt to gather information re: the differences between–and the appeal of–each community.

Anyway, I noticed this discussion thread early this morning, here on G, and figured I should get involved as an un-official spokesperson for those on FB. Sort of ironic, I suppose, considering the fact that I'm an ambassador for Gaia. :)

I just wrote a blog about this issue (Gaia/Facebook, etc.), btw, which you can read by clicking here.

If you don't have time to read it (it's a bit long as I didn't have time to edit), I can say the following…

It's true that some folks who have migrated over to FB have negative feelings re: Gaia and sometimes vent (usually privately, but not always), but the vast majority don't (as Allluvja mentioned). Many are super positive and are still here and even blog and visit frequently (but aren't super active). I don't get the sense that folks are conflicted about where to be and what it means; most, frankly, don't spend time analyzing it. They seem content, simply doing what feels right and what works best, based on their own feelings and needs. And for the most part, folks aren't into “which community is better” or bashing, either (perhaps they've “vented strongly” a few times, but…hey, if they want to, they should). They're just enjoying the best of both worlds (or just one of them). And, if what many folks say here on Gaia is true, perhaps both worlds (G and FB) are within all of us and vice versa…

I sense that a few folks here on Gaia aren't comfortable with what's going on with Facebook, leading to some reactions have been quite strong. It's possible that some individual issues are being triggered. I hope that fades with time, but if it doesn't, it doesn't. People will be where they are and the connections and friendships that are real and strong will endure. Those that aren't, won't.

OK…before this gets too long, I should run. I have a sudden/strong urge to go over to Facebook and check in…

LOL…just kidding!  :)

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Hi Lisa,

I find the blog very fair and helpful, thank you for sharing it with us. It's great that over time we can find places where we call home, just as we don't always live in the same place in our day-to-day lives. 

Deb, I know people have had mixed feelings about this thread but I think it's always important that we discuss our community issues as openly and thoroughly as we can. I'm glad to see the healing, perspective and insight that have come in through your starting this thread.

Love,

Nicole

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Nicole,

Thank you for that recognition.  

I know that there are no mistakes and no reason to feel it has been wrong to question and look closely at what was happening.  It has not been under the cover, nor was it any way just a one-on-one, person to person issue to talk out between the 2 through private emails.  If I have had questions, others have, certainly Meenakshi brings up that she has gently openned the door for discussion of this at Gaia Networking.

I am so protective of the energy here at Living Metaphysics.  It is primarily a place to study a specific kind of spirituality - which is not only contemplative but directly active within the framework of living.  It is not religion based but can be embraced within the structures of any religion one chooses or no religion, if one chooses the personal path, as I have done.

So, my perference is not this kind of “hot” topic.  I really don't like addressing controversy in this group and I seek to keep this a safe and quiet place, for the most part.  At least, that is where my heart truly is.  But another aspect of this group, due to having me as the cultivator, is that my style of “teaching” is by personal example, warts and all.  I am a student of life, as are all of us.  As you have also experienced elsewhere firsthand.

Thank you, friend, for acknowledging my journey through this thread.

Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

I hear you, and appreciate all you are doing here more and more. Namaste!

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Just saw this, Nicole. Thanks. 

Very true–there are are various places that we can call home–on and offline. 

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

As someone just looking in and not being privy to details, I get the feeling that something MORE is going on than what's on the surface. I get the feeling that I'm being pulled into something. Why is this being brought up here? There is pertinent information missing here, I feel like I'm being drawn to find out the details.

To be honest, I don't care to know the details. I'm not going to seek it out. It's non of my business.

I wish all involved peace in their figuring out which is better.

I have a page on FB, and I have my pages on Gaia. I don't compare because each one serves a different purpose. Why not start a thread, which one is better….apples or oranges? This is just how it looks to me.

I almost feel like what Yancey was expressing. Wanting to keep it in a nice little corner on FB, but it seems to be trickling over here.

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Denise,

As someone I've known long, and been in the trenches with, I apologize for bringing this here.  I'd known of some disillusionment since the transition from Zaadz to Gaia, many left then.  I've known of some disillusionment since, when some of the darker energies surfaced and weren't entirely banished, simply reprimanded.  I suppose it is like seeking venegence for wrongs, it never satisfies.  I believe the prevailing view was that the energy of Gaia might eventually transmute those and then, there have been the simply socially awkward.  It reminds me of high school.  We should be more mature but not all here are.

I had stayed away from FB because I have limited time and Gaia has been for me all I want or need.  I've had accounts at MySpace, Facebook and Powerful Intentions for as long or longer than Gaia but I never was active at any but Gaia.  When Lisa did her “research”, as she intends it, I went ahead and took the plunge to look at what was being said at FB about Gaia (I would have been better off staying away from that discussion).  With minor exceptions, I regret being there.  It doesn't fulfill me - except for some real time, animated interactions - the rest feels hollow to me.

Certainly, others feel differently, and that was never a problem for me, even when I knew some were dis-satisfied here.  I have no problem with preferences and inclinations, we all have those, and that doesn't indicate dis-satisfaction, just personal style and needs.  And I know, you can't please all of the people all of the time.  What I couldn't understand was the need to vocally negate Gaia, why?  It perplexed me, perhaps it still does.

This thread has been a very public working through of my conflicted feelings about why that should be, perhaps less conflicted than curious, and a sincere desire to understand why some found FB more desirable than Gaia, some who I like and call friend.  I feel I made progress in that regard, through this deep contemplation, and I thank all who came to assist that work within me.

I am happy to leave the disagreeable stuff out of Gaia.  Those who need to vent are welcome to do it, and FB is where I'd prefer that happens, but I no longer want to read it myself.  I will probably further limit my time there and focus where my heart is - in the work being done through the efforts of Gaians to be the change.

Thanks, friend.  
Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

No apologizing necessary Deb.

You said, “the rest feels hollow to me.” That's how it felt to me. Like being sucked into an empty vortex. You got sucked in and understandably so! You LOVE Gaians and you were doing what your heart felt was right. Protecting those you love.

This shows me how wonderful this place is. This place that YOU created! LM!  Can't compare to FB AT ALL! We help each other.

These communities offer a service. A place to express and meet people of like minds. (And they want us to buy from their advertisers!) These online communities are in it for business.

If I'm not happy with a service, I find another one. There are SO MANY out there.
Those that are not happy here, will find a place that suits them. However, if they're disillusioned here, they'll be disillusioned any where. That is the state of mind that no online community can change.
They come with a facade until they are discovered as to who they REALLY are. And any friendship made was also a facade. Fake until you discover their true intent. And it seems those types ALWAYS have an agenda.

I wish all the dis-satisfied Gaians happiness where ever they find it.

Love and light,
Denise

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Hi Deb!

I must admit that I rejoined this group, Metaphysics, to answer to this post.  I had left because, honestly, I really could not grasp the Metaphysics message…too heady for me…I'm just not that smart?  Anyway, I wanted to say that I have not seen bashing at FB…disagreement, venting, maybe?  Human nature is such that feelings get hurt, people judge and run, minds close just as quickly as they open, etc…I, myself, felt lost in the shuffle, but, have come to realize that was MY hang-up…no one else's fault.

I think that some things can be said and expressed on FB that can not be brought up, comfortably, on Gaia….there is a sense for me that I need to watch myself more closely on Gaia…On FB, I can let my hair down.

Gaia is my spiritual side…I learn here, observe here, I am a student amongst teachers.  On FB, I'm just me…silly, funny…its just not serious for the most part.  Frankly, I am blessed for having both sites…I think it is a wonderful thing to have a choice of where I can best express myself at any given moment!

I LOVE Gaia…God led me here, I truly believe that, at just the right time, or should I say…just in time!  FB is fun and I get to see a different side of my Gaian friends…I've spent less time on FB, and, I have gotten to know them better there.  I am sorry for your pain about the whole thing Deb…I hope it heals quickly!!

Hope I have made some kind of sense…I just feel that this is a mean, cruel, ugly world…especially right now…if joy can be found in both places, why not??  I really like what John-David said…wish I could adhere to that quote!! 

Missy  ;-)

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Missy,

I appreciate that you came back here to share.  You are always welcome.

Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

For whatever it's worth, I have read and responded on Lisa's blog - Demystifing the Gaian Diaspora.

I consider her a friend.  My perspectives of the 2 communities continue to be just that - each are unique and worthy of their members.  That I feel Gaia fulfills my needs best remains unchanged but that is not a criticism of Facebook, rather a preference of my own.

I like very much what Alluvja / Lucienne has created at Facebook.  Her Gaia Center is good for real time, one-on-one or group interactions.  We are fortunate that opportunity for expanding the Gaia experience exists and owe her much appreciation for the hard work that creating it was, definitely a labor of love.

With that I hope to clear up that any “bashing” is simply persons with issues that they don't want to face.  Believing there must be a bit of that in myself, I will do a Radical Forgiveness session on my hike tomorrow, to collapse any remaining negative energy permanently (I hope … yes, it does work but the well of work to be done can seem endless  LOL).

Thank you, each of you, for being there for me in your own unique ways, this room is not called Member's Support without reason.  May any who need such, follow my example, that I may repay your love concretely.

Wishing you all, as always I do, only the best life has to offer -
Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Deb-

I also joined this group so I could comment on this thread; though I may find something wonderful within here!

I am someone who participated in “Gaia venting” on a particular Facebook status.  However, I do not believe at all that I was “bashing” this beautiful community.  What I did say, and this is something that has been a huge problem for me here, was that I did not feel I had the ability to feel unhappy or negative while participating here.

There have been several times where I have written a blog with negative emotions and have received private messages and/or grapevine messages about how I need to “stay positive” and my health issues will just be “willed away.”  For someone like me who has struggled with health for quite some time, these were very disconcerting statements that turned me off from Gaia for awhile.  A lot of the times it was “mind over matter” will “get you everywhere,” which in my opinion, is sadly, not entirely true.  Needless to say, I felt as if I was being looked at as a “negative figure” … and that bothered me greatly.  Is this a personal issue?  Sure, but personal insecurities are always heightened by insensitivity. 

But do not get me wrong.  Many people from Gaia have been beautiful souls who have done nothing, but go out of their way to make me feel at “home.”  In fact, most of them I consider to be great friends.  The ones I refer to above, are no longer on my friends list.  Yet, the feeling of being a “negative figure” still lingers and since I have been in a very negative spot recently, I have managed to stay away for fear of ridicule.

Gaia is a site that I come to for spiritual growth, while Facebook is social for me - social as in my “offline friends” and my “family” are there.  However, I am pleased to have many Gaian friends on there as well.  There is really no one I am friends with on Gaia that I wouldn't want to be friends with on Facebook OR in “offline times.” 

If I were strictly a “Gaian,” I would feel how you have felt in this situation.  Because I am both and have experienced some unpleasantries on Gaia, I understand BOTH sides.

Gaia is still a part of me, for it is the only community I feel I could start an environmental group in and not be ridiculed or called a “tree hugger” in a negative way.  I suppose, through this, a lesson I have learned is that no matter where you are, there is always something negative that appears because it is the circle of life.  Negatives work with the positives in order to maintain balance.

While I do not spend as much time on Gaia anymore because of massive amounts of school work, studying, and work time, I do plan on visiting more … but only when I am in a “positive mind.”  That is, unfortunately, my “own issue” as you have stated elsewhere. 

And to end on a positive note, I love my Gaian friends and treasure them very much.  You, I am sure, understand that.  Why would I want to burden them with my negativity when they are all here to try and be positive?  To stay uplifting?  Gaia has taught me HOW to be more positive … I have even been able to come off of medication for anxiety because of the teachings of other Gaians' blogs. 

I apologize if this response does not come across correctly or how I intend it to.  I am waiting for a class to start and really wanted to say something.  If it comes out inappropriate or hurtful in anyway because I have rushed through it, please let me know and I will clarify. 

Thank you for opening this line of discussion, Deb, because this may be what everyone needs to “clear the air.” 

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

This discussion is why I feel Gaia would be the perfect place to start the worlds only safe childrens network online. A global group of kids with big hearts, with their own place to grow. Talk about changing the world…”clearing the air”. They will have solutions for the planet we all dream about. They just need a little nest. I have all kinds of people who are interested in helping. But Gaia cannot fund this themselves…. yet.

Here's our chance…

:)

Janie

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Janie, love the nest :)

Rachel, this is so beautiful and real in the way you do so naturally. I'm glad that you have shared from your heart, because sometimes when a friend posts from a difficult or dark place, we think we have to cheer them up instead of listening more closely to what they need. It's easy to assume but the results can be hurtful or alienating as you explain. 

I have missed you around here (as I've missed others who have moved more to Facebook). I never found your blogs negative but only full of your presence. 

So grateful for you both,

Nicole



 

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Janie,

May your dream come true.

Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Daydreamer,

Thank you for joining this discussion.

I have long thought it unfortunate that some “spiritually inclined” people think that it is only mind that affects health or emotions or whatever.  I have a serious health issue and believe me, if my mind and/or emotions or praying or treating were all it took, I'd be drinking Wine today.  There is a whole soul life unfolding within us, in complex ways, that we can not judge regarding ourselves, much less another.  

A truly mature person, in the spiritual sense, knows this.  When you run into it or someone applies it to your situation (rather than looking at their own self in the mirror) you can be sure that they are in a “learning” phase and know not of what they speak and certainly would be embarrased if they understood what such judgments indicate.  Big hugs to you for having to endure such.

I have never told anyone they just need to be positive and all will be well.  Does shifting yourself into a slightly more positive “feeling” help matters?, it doesn't hurt them, more I can not say in any other person's case.  But I have applied a 5 mins of “feeling” happy moments in my life, not reliving the moments, feeling the feeling of those moments as though I were in them and had a much better day as a reward.  All I know is, that much “works” for me, personally.

In responding to you from my heart, I hope I've helped you to feel welcome here, welcome to be your authentic self and express what is in your heart and mind.  I've never denied anyone who has come into this group that respect for their humanity.

Please do your true, core “friends” the justice of realizing that they are there to support you.  You may find it does your heart and soul so much good and surprisingly, it does their heart and soul even more good than they can ever do for you.  But by taking that risk, at the least, you will know that truly, you aren't alone and that others do understand pain, suffereing, sadness and the like.  None of us is “positive” all the time and no one is a “friend”, who can not be there for us in such times.  

Hugs from one tree hugger to another -
with no apologies accepted, there is nothing to do such for -
Deb 
(tree hugging dirt worshiper - yep it really says that on my profile)

PS - I hope so - to your parting remarks - because sometimes I am “called” upon to play a role that I would never choose, if my God had laid it out clearly to me beforehand.  Such is this time.  Sigh, thanks for comforting my heart.

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Having opened myself more here on Gaia than on Facebook…
Having been blocked by more Gaians than I can count…

I'm wondering if this passage is a reference to me:

”I have had a very public go at the person you recently had trouble with for blatant
sexual / gender insensitivity. Third party interested Gaians worked
long and hard for a sanitized “public” reconciliation between me and
that person. It was not to be a reconciliation, neither of us could
convince the other. It took loads of time to realize that was
the Reality of it. In the end, we identified common ground and agreed
that we still disagreed regarding much but that we had made Peace with
that fact.”

If so, then I'll restart my healing energy on this wound, here on Gaia.  And hope for a better tomorrow…  :-)

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Heemes,

No, I wasn't referring to you in this remark.  He would smile to think you thought he was you.  I believe you two are friends.  (OK, for inquiring minds that have to know - see Gaia Networking Featured Member for Oct 2008 - its all there in publically accessible print).  

BTW, he and I agreed that he was not a sexist exactly … but that is how it began over the story of Adam & Eve, and we never did agree enough to see the situation from the same perspective, but boy did we learn alot and fortunately are still friends..  

I apologize for your misunderstanding of whom I was speaking.  That was not my intent.

Wishing you only, always the best experiences -
Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Ok, yes, we're still friends, Dave and I. 

Congratulations on the beheading, btw (see Dave's profile for details), hardy har har.

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Thanks, Nicole. I like the nest here too. In reality, protection is needed online sometimes. Our world is a place for learning.
I hope the dream comes true too, Deb…workin on it :)

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Hi folks.

My primary concern is why there remains a need to compete even in something as intangible as online community… Why must there be a choice?

I have no desire or intention to 'make bad' with ANY community or individual. Towards what? I have pleasure with both places. They both serve my interests: depth at GAIA where my circle can appreciate and add meaning to my ramblings and especially mental rumblings, and at FB immediate, spontaneous real time response to just about anything - including spiritual subjects and relevant real world matters!

I don't know. Perhaps because virtual community is still in my opinion an abstraction from real life, I don't automatically 'get' why we would take things so personally if we disagree with a decision or perspective made by the organisation that you are at best a WRITTEN contributor to. I am not saying that what we express here isn't huge in the scope of things: it certainly is to me! And I have grown so so much from having such a place to write. So no matter what my little grievances are, I am happy to have had a space like this to just do my thing.

However, the choices that are made by the management at GAIA or whatever are THEIRS! It ISN'T PERSONAL!! Please, is it worth it? Really??

Right now I'm just pleased to see something akin to real community emerging - not just online at these 2 sites but in many other places. But from the time we start saying anything is better than another etc., we get into the competition zone and I think that is self-defeating [and greatly reflective of all that has gone 'wrong' in this world by the way]. And like I think I said in another setting, if it isn't working for you… move on. We always have a choice. NOBODY owes us ANYTHING in this life. NOT A SINGLE THING!

Ok, back to check my grapevine and THEN my Facebook feed… in order of priority I add.

Take care,

Sherri

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Sherri,

I agree with all your points regarding the management of, and Gaia's obvious right to, manage their business.  I think we do count because without us, there is no community.  There is no “better” than, there are just preferences and sometimes not much of that for those 50/50 Gaian Facebookers.  There are benefits to spending time in both communities and that has never been anything I have the least problem with.  I have no problem with people driftng back and forth or being in only one place or the other.  

I'm the original champion of free choice and responsible free speech (and that word “responsible is one heck of a slippery slope, yes?).  Can't we all just agree to get along ?  YES, we can - and it really isn't hard.  Have respect for other's feelings and consider whether what you say might be hurtful to another.  

I think someone once called this the Golden Rule.  None of us is perfect at all times in that regard but we can try and we can apologize if we think that appropriate.  I found many instances in contemplation today,s where I have been far from perfect, in this latest frenzy of energy surging through Gaia to do its good work.  If I didn't believe that last part my heart would totally break.

I happily saw you try to start a chat with me at FB but by the time I figured it out, you were gone or not reachable by me.  I will admit to hating new learning curves, I go reluctantly and prefer to just get what I need to do done with tools I understand but change is constant and life does not allow me to get by with that.

The big point which you made that I agree with is - “I am happy to have a space like this to just do my thing, to write, to connect, to care”.  That is huge.  I pay the small membership fee gladly, not because I'm adverse to ads but because I'm willing to kick in my financial support in a real way to keep Gaia going.

Thanks for stopping by -
Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Oh you figured out the chat thingy on FB! Sweeeeeeet! LOL

Re: Gaia and Facebook

I thought a while back that this discussion needed to be aired; and have therefore linked it to  Re: Open doors and windows: other online communities
on Gaia Networking. I guess that thread needed a personal touch; which this one has provided.
A verse from Tao comes to mind:

16. 
Knowing the Eternal Law

Attain the utmost in Passivity,
Hold firm to the basis of Quietude.

The myriad things take shape and rise to activity,
   But I watch them fall back to their repose.
Like vegetation that luxuriantly grows
   But returns to the root (soil) from which it springs.

To return to the root is Repose;
   It is called going back to one's Destiny.
Going back to one's Destiny is to find the Eternal Law.
   To know the Eternal Law is Enlightenment.
And not to know the Eternal Law
   Is to court disaster.

Re: Gaia and Facebook

Meenakshi,

Thanks.

It isn't always easy being me, probably all of us can say that.

It isn't easy being understood, most of us have felt that way before.

Deb

Re: Gaia and Facebook- handling dissent and movement

Deb, I can understand what you are saying. When I first read this title, even the title itself bothered me. Through the mirror of my children, I have tried to see that even talking about those who talk against us, can seem as talking against them.

When I read Facebook bashing Gaia; I read it both ways, and it disturbs me. Which is why with my second and now third post, I have modified the title.

Yet, it is not the other posts in this group, quoting from books ancient and new, about matters that are clearly spiritual, that have drawn so many members - old and new- to comment; but this post, which you posted with a very clear title of how you perceived something that happened at a discussion  at Facebook. For the sake of anonymity, you did not name names; but it has now become clear, as the Facebook friends drop in, who was involved.

As this discussion has continued, the situation has become clearer.  What bothered Deb, and I hope that my friends who straddle two communities, can see this- is not that you talked against Gaia on Facebook; but that you did not allow her tempering view to hold. Lisa, you and Deb are both friends of mine; and what I see is that perhaps on the spur of the moment, you decided to delete her comment. I have no idea if you stifled another voice as well. But you know what, each of us can take these actions. On Gaia too, in my groups, I have had to take certain actions of this sort. It is never easy, and it is the way in which it is done, that can either lead to a conflagaration or pour oil on troubled waters.

I don't think there is any way in which an action can be taken to ask someone else not to share their pain dissenting view ; that is easy for anyone. For me, as mother, administrator, group cultivator and so on, I would need to use all the loving wisdom available to me, and see it with the eyes of my children, bfore I take a step of that sort. But I know it has to be done with calm, sure surgical skill and not fearfully. For it is for the highest good of all concerned. Is this called spirituality? I have no idea. Is this boring? Quite possible. There isn't much to talk about with this.

The point is, that on this thread, in a group that Deb is cultivating, she wrote something that troubled her, in the Members' Support group. Some of us above have posted or joined and things have become clearer, I see movement as Deb clarifies her thought process when others seem to be attacking [my words, not hers] which is what discussions are meant for. She asked for support and has graciously taken whatever each of us has given.

I am still at a  disadvantage because I have not read the discussion at Facebook. But from what I have seen at your blog, Lisa and this discussion is - that airing of feelings has caused me to know better that as I go deeper into Deb's inner world, it becomes more and more calm and serene. You have not allowed us to see that inner world.Perhaps because the initial bouts drained your energy. It is the movement that we see within us, that helps us to enjoy something or not. The ways in which we can step into and out and around a topic, that do that. When you are tired of being at Gaia, it may be because you did not - do not- allow yourself this movement in your outer aspects. Perhaps you could allow us to see the flow in you? For each of us has unimagined depths/heights.

The point is, do we want to show it? It is a choice that is brought to us not by a venue, but by ourselves.

I bow to all who have written on this thread; to those who had indicated that such discussion was to come, bringing clear refreshing air with it; for the courage of all here, who have stepped out of their comfort zone, and for me , the wonderful world of akashic records come to life in online communities, Facebook and Gaia.

Living Metaphysics indeed.

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

I absolutely loved reading this thread and seeing all the diverse opinions. 

Deb, your teaching style—teaching from your own experience—has certainly worked for me and provided me with insights I don't think I would have gotten any other way. 

 Thank you all for the rich tapestry of perspectives.

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

I'm a Gaian Not In Exile. 

Not, because when I chose to leave, members pleaded with me to stay.  Several others I met here - who are now lifetime friends - have also left over the last year.  I've written a response on behalf of my friends and me here:

http://gaiannotinexile.gaia.com/blog

Thank you for the opportunity to answer your question about why some of us prefer other spaces to Gaia.

Namaste

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

That's great that you've found a place to connect and express yourself. It really doesn't matter which online community you're connected to. As long as you're happy.

I'll pass on reading your blog. Your decision to go where ever you choose is non of my business.

Health and healing,
Denise

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Denise,

The energies unleashed through this subject, would be beyond belief, 
had I not been in the eye of the storm.  

I've been in the fire before, as you know.  It's tempering effect is quickening.

Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Deb,
My question is…why did you have to be in the eye of the storm?

Just something to reflect. No need to explain details. Actually I would prefer not to know the details.

I've seen all kinds of bashing especially on FB. I sometimes find myself getting sucked in. But there maybe an unfolding that needs to take place. Some may have lessons to learn (or not). Who am I to interfere? I may read out of curiosity. I may find myself siding. And it's VERY easy to want to express opinion or to defend one side or the other. I have done it a LOT in the past, but I found myself expending a LOT of energy that I realized could have been used for other good.

And it seems to me like you've expended a LOT of energy at the cost of your health. Losing precious sleep. (Noticing the times of your posts.) I read earlier that you're dealing with health issues? If that is the case, your energy is very much needed for healing. 

So now what I do is bless both sides of the coin. Because they are both right from their perspective. And really that's what it's all about. Someone is expressing their perspective. And because no two can hold the exact same perspective, there is going to be differences. Bless those differences.

Sending healing energy,
Denise

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Kaibab -

I understand you speak for more than yourself and it is quite an experience to find oneself reflected in the mirror of another person's perspective.

It is part of the path I find myself on with this one, and I thank you for adding to the experience, something novel.

Deb

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Wow, so much energy put into this. Seems like two different high schools or sports or activities … and “Gaian spiritually” is a new concept to me. Perhaps I'm too new.

Life is so short for such things to drag one down. Several billion other people might better fit your interests, lifestyle and philosophy.

hmmm … back to running and reading and listening to the flowing creek

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

interesting how thoroughly we are erased! Word to the wise: if you want to leave a last word before leaving Gaia, you may want to put it on a thread instead of your blog!

I am new here, so don't want to overstep! But i don't understand why it needs to be a fight. Some people get their feelings hurt and leave. The mind will rationalize this any way it can to make sense of it. Sometimes it produces a rational reason. Sometimes it doesn't. But it seems difficult to be rational when one's feelings are hurt.

So then people form factions of agreement. And pretty soon we get to have war. It happens all the time, at dinner tables even!

personally, I have been flamed off a couple discussions, here. Mightily hurt! Very few who even seemed to notice or come to my defense. But i got through it, sorted it out in the aftermath. Learned my lessons well. And am pretty shy anymore, ever fearing i will trip a trigger i didn't see, and be magically transformed into The Enemy somehow.

so i am hoping for community who can give me the benefit of the doubt, and ask if they think i am being rude, rather than igniting what remains of my charred pinfeathers!

we must all transcend the dynamic of ego. Ego is essential, but limited. It seems a stage we grow through, into freedom of autonomous action. But it does take itself, and its issues, Very Seriously!

a little lightheartedness and humility can go a long long way ;-) We can choose to seek truth and understanding, or solidify our certainties, which is often a rather surly and curmudgeony affair!

and seriously, since when haven't we humans played this game of Divide and Conquer! It seems we can expect to find it at every turn ;-)

signed:
Roadkill!

;-)

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Hi Mary,

Ever am I happy to see you.  It is amazing that my only question really was, “why is it necessary, to bash another, over one's own decision?”.  I'm still dipping my toe in, over at FB from time to time, to visit those there.  I have nothing ” against ” FB but love Gaia much more, am fulfilled being in Gaia in ways FB doesn't fulfill me.   

Through all of this, I never intended “hurt”, only was seeking to understand the “sour” grapes of leaving, and the need within some hearts to make others wrong, in choosing to do what one simply wants to do (a “see, you made me do it” kind of mentality, not that I have chosen to leave and complain about the community I left, I'm being rhetorical here).

What I found is, that in working through the questions I have had since Gaia acquired Zaadz, I obviously ” triggered ” all kinds of “big energy” to quote Michael, or stuff for other Gaians, which was not my intention.  But I accept responsibility for having said ” yes ” to Spirit, when it suggested the role to me, to bring the topic into discussion.  I did not do this in my ” personal ” blog, because it never was ” personal ” to me.  It was never about this person or that.  It was about the phenomena itself.  The behavior, not the person(s).

So, I brought it here because I wanted to view it through a spiritual lens.  I wanted those I respect, who have joined me in this space, to share in whatever parallel path being here with me indicates to them, to ” be there ” for me in discussing it.  I got more than I knew was coming, when I uttered that ” yes ” to Spirit.  But I did not get more than Spirit intended to happen.  Therefore, I am content with it all.

Though I would gratefully close the door to the whole discussion personally, I will not close the door, as long as others still have a need to discuss, and I will not be ” absent ” such a discussion in my sacred space here.  Truly, a long time ago, it ceased to be ” my space ” only and became ” ours “.  An unfolding, which I remain eternally grateful to also have said ” yes ” to, when Spirit presented the idea for this group, fully formed, to my consciousness.

Love and many wishes,
for only the best unfolding in your life -
Deb

Thoughts on Community Involvement and Moderation

Hi All,

I joined this group so I can reply to this thread.  Needing to join-a-group just to reply doesn't feel so smooth to me, though it's not something I would complain about.

I've been looking around Gaia areas which I've avoided the last two years, the parts which make this a community.  Why would I avoid it?  Exactly because threads like this are inevitable online - - and it's not the thread, it's the very fact of the nature of the beast of internet socializing.  Let me put a feather in my cap first: Before the internet went public, I had four phone lines coming into my home, into my computer, which ran a multi-line Bulletin Board System.  I was there before email, when the whole issue of “moderation” and such began on Fido SIGs (Special Interest Groups) and other boards called Conferences.  Now they are often called “forums” out there.  Also I will mention, the first internet version had an extremely practical layout, which is no longer available, or, it's so not-pretty that no-one wants to use it.  Or, no sysops (owners) don't choose it anymore.  ( I know, I looked for the software and it's no longer available and I had to write my own in PHP.  )
    Saying that is meant to be more than my bona-fides, it's also meant, mostly meant, to indicate that what I'm about to say comes from some deep experience.  Ain't I som'th'n.  Well, a little; Old!
    What I have to say is that I “avoided” community involvement precisely because I knew the kinds of things, like this thread, which Gaia and her people would be confronted with over time.  And I did not have the time and inclination to be involved.  Just this week, that has changed and I'm looking around, and I love Gaia, and, it's no fun watching the level of negativity some people bring here.  For instance within minutes I ran into two alpha males who had run themselves out of town.  One of them still has on his Profile that he is “laughing at you.”  No surprise to me, it's a very wide range of people who come here. 
    I'd like to give another example, one day, a fellow, young man, sent me a Friend invitation and I responded only to discover he had signed up the day before and had already posted apologies that he had taken more than 24 hours to share his new book with us, because after all, he could clearly see we could really really use his help!  Lovely.  Now as much as I can smile about youth, that experience was all about someone's ego, not “spiritual” no matter what he calls his book.  Yet who am I to say even that?  The essential message of spirituality can not be spoken - - in fact, probably anything I can say today, I can say the opposite tomorrow from a different viewpoint.  And both being “right.”
   What I'm somewhat interested in is, is there a space which actually studies this phenomenon of “moderating” or cultivating - - the whole thing?  I once read up on a thread about Seeds and watched how people struggled with trying to discern via a system of judging, which any valuation is, a judgment.
   In the end it comes down to symantics and any moderator has to be able to point to some agreed text, such as Mission Statement or other.  For instance, my statement about what judging is can be supported in the Dictionary, that's what judging is, making a value judgment - -  and even something as simple as that can turn into a large (even long) argument if one person takes offense and tries to put “values” as spiritual instead of religious. 
   Further, the very nature of religion/spiritual “differences” as well-quoted at the start of this page, can trigger arguments also.  The key is the feeling of againstness which “differences” only implies but will usually show up, just like the vibes around a thread with “versus” in the title.
   And finally I'm at my main point.  “None of the above” including ideas of a Diaspora, are the point, but instead, how Gaia persons maintain the Gaia viewpoint without getting sucked into discussions like this, or anything which is “versus” some other thing or group?    How to create spiritual welcoming without spiritual talk?  Moderating is all over, it is not just for spiritual places, yet spiritual people are likely better prepared to develop moderating closer to art than, say, Beer Fans United.  Though I may be wrong about that guess.
   Still, I imagine that somewhere on the 'net is discussion and developed expertise in moderation.  If so, would be good to have a link to that expertise in many places where moderation exists on Gaia.  And if in fact the entire internet in all this time has not grown a place that has studied Moderation, just as universities have studied Conflict, then might that be a very very cool thing for Gaia to host?  The very first study of excellent online moderating?  Methinks that would be very cool.  But if the place exists already, I know in my heart that importing the realizations to make them accessible, and having all moderators demonstrate fundamental understanding, would, will, lead to even more enjoyable Gaiaians experiences.  So say I. 

In summary, I would like to see some professionalism in moderating, and not leave it hit-or-miss, or leave it to the social workers amongst us to step in.  There are techniques, there are answers, I just don't see them brought together in one place for people to study.   Doesn't mean they don't exist.  I just don't see any reference to them.

The last group I joined I got tossed out of.  Immediately.  I get private emails asking if I'm ok, if the guy really did that, etc etc.  Moderating public discussion takes skill and sometimes professionalism, and lacking any study beforehand, we leave moderators dangling in the flame-wars wind.  I would think the first training would be to ask candidate moderators if s/he finds their own pattern here at least five or ten times, to demonstrate the kind of insight and humor required, if nothing else.   So yes, I agree with my own comment about moderators having resources to develop their abilities.  I know whereof I speak, it says so right here.

Re: Thoughts on Community Involvement and Moderation

In advance of anyone asking me how making a study of moderation skill-development might be done, I'd think that a wiki starting at a Disambiguation page would be the way.  At first, anyone can join, but as the number of people becomes larger, some discerning would be needed.  That is, until such time as we have some rudimentary resources we can rely on being able to link-to, which is the whole point of the project.  From then on, we can leave it to a new set of volunteers and let it run. 
   But meanwhile we'll have more than what's currently available.  Usually this is about the point where someone bonks me on the head and tells me, “We've already done this!”  If so, fold me up, baby.  I won't mind.  *smile* 
Michael
.

Re: Thoughts on Community Involvement and Moderation

Michael,

I have read your thoughtful posts here, thank you, there is a lot to which to respond.

First of all, I would appreciate your feedback on our Gaia Groups Community - “The Mod Pod”  because it is the place on Gaia set up for the purposes of discussing and supporting moderating groups. I'm not saying that we've done what you're suggesting, because I'm not sure we have, but it would be great to have your opinion on whether we already have some good resources there, what we're missing, etc.

It's a request-in group, so if you would like to join to get into discussion with us there, just email one of the moderators there (I'm a member but not a mod there).


I want to go in greater depth about a number of things you mention, but first I want to check in with Deb, because I'm new to actively participating in this group and I don't want to hijack the thread. 


Deb, do you want us to discuss this further here, or would you prefer we start another thread here, or look at it in another group?


Peace,


Nicole

Re: Thoughts on Gaia Bashing,Community Involvement and Moderation

Hi Nicole,

Thanks for that, and I'll lie in wait to see what comes of it.  I've also initiated following up the links which you/we discussed.

When Deb started this thread, she titled it one thing, and then provided a long quote from Michael Beckwith, regarding spirituality and religion which is a great helpful tool to get a handle on this what is going on in the againstness of “bashing.”  Great intuition. 

Difficulties with participation tend to invite the mind, the religious part, the rules and guidelines part, as solutions.  One can see this in the type of professionalism the links lead; one would think we're looking at textbook material, dry and even, er, uh, carefully I don't mean to offend, sterile.  While in the other direction there is Deb's quote, ”Spiritual discernment is a direct, intuitive perception of the Real.  Seers, sages beholders, and mystics occupy this realm.“  And herein many worlds collide, because indeed Gaia is meant to be spiritual.  Though come to think of it, I might be wrong in assuming that.  I haven't read the Big mission statement, or I don't remember.  Nevertheless, I'm only commenting because if not able to bring intuitive spiritual into the process at Gaia, then where else might we see it?  I can't think of anywhere.  Most attempts to handle this invite us to go up into our head and Say things about the heart, being sensitive, considerate etc.  Though saying isn't doing.  If we want to do it, we need operate as our inner seer, sage, beholder and mystic, this is my suggestion and my response to Deb's first post.  How it plays out in her second post is part and parcel of the nature of this, and it's not easy, it's not nearly as easy as the mind might suggest. 

Gaia is an excellent example of the internet being the Medium yet I don't recommend that all moderators need read The Medium Is The Message, though it would be nice.  Indeed the only thing I've even found to truly help is the Flame Warriors link, ( see me here ), not because it's over ten years of brilliant observation, but because it requires a being to enter the heart, through self-depreciating laughter, and operate as Michael's (and Deb's?) “sprititual” level, as sages gently laughing with ourselves instead of by “religious” dogma, which, I'm carefully labeling, mission statements are, in Beckwith's context.  The finest guidelines are of only little use, a last resort even, if not used by the mystic sage in us, but instead by the guideline/rule/dogma, hence, religious.  And isn't this the direction most of us want to move, more spiritual in everyday life?
    Deb's second post, in her FB reply, there is seen the backlash of exactly this, complaints of (persons on) Gaia not being open and flexible.  How can this be?  I think it's crucial, Deb has really laid it out, to see that people often take their posts as representing their personal identity, which makes minor errors of process into major personal insult in the listener, if not the intent of the other actor.  And the path, as I see it, why this post, is to lean far over to the spiritual side, which leads to operating as compassion, instead of the dogma/rule/right/religious side. 

An example is this post.  I am certainly not yelling, “this this and this is wrong and unfair” or anything close.  I am being, as best I can while up in my mind, to be kind, gentle and real.  Not a plastic sort of placating, or even cynically knowing what will manipulate an irate poster, but instead trusting that we're all human and that if the other person is present here now, then their heart will respond to my heart.  This is not an airy-fairy thing at all I'm saying.  I am saying that what we've learned of spirituality is real, and not the “nonsense” which the real can see clearly, such as a rampant sexist who is unable to live a Gaian level.  And to trust this realness, that it does work, is a good step, a step of trust, and the main thing for good moderation.  If every moderator is able to montior their own reaction/emotions, then self-awareness will inform what they say and do, and leave little room to antagonize an upset person into (I know this is crazy) joining some “diaspora.” 

Again, I hope my focusing on “moderating” is accepted to mean all our actions, that actual spiritual practice inform everything connected, and that this is the core of all the aspects which lead to the kind of contraction and judging and mind-ness instead of mindfulness.  If I've seemed to concentrate too much on Moderating, then this is the failure of my writing ability, as my intent is to discuss, or share my insight, which is what I beleive this is, that the answer is always following the spiritual side, on moving to the religious, the agreements, is felt as last resort, and recognize that at that point we're throwing up our hands and hoping for the best and no longer operating as source beings who are present no matter what the condition or situation.  A lot to ask?  Welp, that's why we have moderators!

Fingers humbly crossed, I press Send …

Re: Thoughts on Community Involvement and Moderation

Hi Michael,
I'm glad you've shared your thoughts, and wanted [as a moderator in this group] to  let you know that I have read them, but will respond perhaps later, if one of the other mods hasn't come by and done so.

I have taken the liberty of re-titling the  threads because that makes it a little easier for me to understand what it is you are addressing.

As Nicole [thanks, Nicole] has pointed out, the Mod Pod would be an excellent place to discuss issues related to community involvement and moderation. I'm a mod there and can invite you if you'd like. Another place is Gaia Networking.

On the whole, as you've seen, Deb is very open to whatever comes up, so it's fine if after reading this thread, you responded here. You say you used to be  a member here?

Re: Thoughts on Community Involvement and Moderation

Hi, thanks Meenakshi,

No, I wasn't a prior member.  (?)  I feel a little flustered about never quite being “on thread” which seems a recurring thing for me.  I appreciate what you say, that there are groups about moderation, but I still see this topic's, as it's stated, foundation being about the exact same things –  whether moderation existed in the universe or not.  The FB peoples' “complaints” are of this feeling, which happens in every forum, site, that is big enough to have it happen.  It a general thing, not exclusive to Gaia and not exclusive to “moderation.”  Accusations of exlusivity, uncaring, etc.  But I don't need to be right. 

I wonder if there is something not being said.

I've been told I have Big Energy, and I know I say things very strongly.  [ waving my hands about my sides ]  I truly don't know what to make of it, whether to stay away, wherein no difficulty happens, or show up, and there is this bit where even when I think I'm totally on-thread, it seems I am not. 
   And often I have been gently told I am welcome, but what I have said – not addressed.  And maybe there is something about me that leaves little room for others.  Maybe I'm like a bull in a china shop, even if a nice bull. 

  I stop here, as this is becoming off the thread(s).  [ smilingly noticing that this time, even the title of the thread was changed  – I don't know this to be what you are thinking but I now envision someone patting the head, “Nice Bull!” ]    :-) 

Oh, thanks about Mod Pod and Gaia Networking  - -   but I'm thinking right now to ask, friends of mine, for any feedback on my patterns of participation.  

Re: Thoughts on Community Involvement and Moderation

Michael, your participation here has been great, open, honest, respectful, humourous, all the kinds of things my heart lights up to see from a group member.

Please don't take the re-naming of the thread to heart. (Laughing inwardly at the mental image - being patted on the head with someone saying Nice Bull! :):) ) Threads being renamed for clarity is one of the things Meenakshi does very well and diligently in all the groups where she is a moderator, and in no way is it a criticism that you are “off-thread”. 

As you say, this issue of moderation is related to the FB vs Gaia issue, but I'd agree with Meenakshi that we have a definite change of focus here beginning with your first post, and moderation (and how group members relate to each other within groups) is at the heart of it. 

I'm delighted that you mentioned that Flame Warrior site. We'd been batting it about on this thread in Fully Engaged in the Games of Life and I agree that whether we are moderators or group members, stepping back from time to time and laughing at ourselves is a good way to avoid being in our head all the time, helping us stay balanced and open to as many different views and people as possible.

I'd like to start a thread over at the Mod Pod inviting other moderators to “play” with those characters, and will do so this morning if I have time before hitting the road for my trip.

Looking forward to hearing further from you and others here,

Nicole

Re: Thoughts on Community Involvement and Moderation

Michael,

I don't want you to think 
[a] you aren't welcome, you are 
[b] what you have to say doesn't matter, it does.

Changing the name of the thread was not an indication of either.  I would like to think, it was an indication that Meenakshi knows, I had already moved beyond this thread personally; yet it was not only you who came again with new postings.  Others have something to say and had not yet had taken the opportunity.  I am open to any and all who wish to use this space as a forum for what they feel relative to any topic that has emerged here.

There is nothing that is not spiritual in my life but I readily recognize that some people 

[a] have no interest in the spiritual side of things and I believe, that if it were “required” by our life, that we do, we would all be “born” with that insight.  Bbut we are not and therefore, I believe that for any whose mission in this life is simply to have a very human experience, that it is important for those of us who see expanded aspects of Being, to let these have the experience they came here to be, for it is not for us to say what they are here for. 

[b]  I believe others do have a mission to discover the spiritual aspects of Being but it is not an easy path per se, and one of the hardest aspects is simply the interpretation of what happens in our life from such a perspective, which may add an element entirely not of the “being only human” variety and may seem even at odds with that, though that can never truly be the case.  Spirit is never at odds with the creation it has manifested through and as, even if Spirit takes no more than an external observor role.

Please Michael, if your heart yearns for something more than you have received from having come here, then speak plainly of that and I will respond at my earliest opportunity.

Happy to have you among us -
Deb

Re: Thoughts on Community Moderating

Michael,

It is late and I am tired.  I don't want you to infer anything by my silence.  I've been under unusual computer satellite issues for the last 24 hours + that impacted my ability to load pages or respond and I've been out of town all day, only returning very late (it is now 3am here).  It appears the restrictions my satellite provider placed on us have lifted.

I have read through it all but don't feel mentally clear enough to give a good response.  I opened this discussion here and you are welcome to be here and to post.  All have been welcome.  I appreciate Meenakshi changing the thread name, because you have shifted the conversation, and I think the points were important and a fit ending to this story, which I simply withdrew energy from personally.  Partly because in the unfolding of this, I gained many insights and some long held questions were answered, mostly within myself by contemplating it all.

I am not trained as a moderator and I don't claim to be a good one.  I don't feel you implicating such or at least doing so quite gently.   I do bring a spiritual openness of inquiry to all my life touches.  I go deep within for my own answers but some answers come from / through others comments and perspectives, when I'm not good enough to pull it out of my self.

Thank you for your thoughts / insights.  
Deb

Re: Thoughts on Community Moderating

Michael, I apologize for flustering you and can't say I'm the best moderator to handle this question; so hope that someone else will be able to respond to you more appropriately.

Touching Other Lives

Yet another shift in direction and so a change of topic.  Today I was reading in a book called Finite and Infinite Games - A Vision of Life as Play and Possibility by James P Carse.  James carse is Professor of Religion at NYU.  The book was recommended by Mike in his Fully Engaged group.  It has helped me understand not only a bit more about Mike's perspective on life but the premise behind the group he started.  It is an interesting book.  It has broadened my own perspective of people, types of perspectives and the motivations behind why some people behave the way they do.  

Mr Carse repeatedly contrasts Finite and Infinite play in his book.  With this topic here, coming up yet again, and with my memories regarding it freshened once again, I read these thoughts of Mr Carse this morning -

Touch is a characteristically paradoxical phenonmenon of infinite play.


I am not touched by another when the distance between us is reduced to zero.  I am touched only if I respond from my own center - that is, spontaneously, originally.  But you do not touch me except from your own center, out of your own genius.  Touching is always reciprocal.  You cannot touch me unless I touch you in response. 
…
When I am touched, I am touched only as the person I am behind all the theatrical masks, but at the same time I am changed from within - and whoever touches me is touched as well.  We do not touch by design.  Indeed, all designs are shattered by touching.  Whoever touches and whoever is touched cannot be surprised.  (The unpredictability of this phenomenon is reflected in our reference to the insane as “touched”.)
…
If to be touched is to respond from one's center, it is also to respond as a whole person.  To be whole is to be hale, or healthy.  In sum, whoever is touched is healed.


The finite player's interest is not in being healed, or made whole, but in being cured or made functional.  Healing restores me to play, curing restores me to competition in one or another game.

It was meaningful for me, take from it whatever it is worth for you, or not.  I am the same and I am different for having gone through the unfolding of this thread.  I have been touched.  Therefore, I know some of you were equally touched in some way as well.

Also, today, Nicole's profile drew me to a blog written by one of our members here, Centria / Kathy.  It was written almost a year ago today.  It was in some sense a channeled work, according to Kathy's description of how it was written.  I think it is also a fitting blog to revisit with all that happened here still in mind -

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Deb,  I remember writing or channeling “ A Gaia story” last spring and kind of thinking afterward “Oh this is interesting, I hope lots of people read this.”  It didn't feel like “I” had written it.  Rather had just opened up a channel for “it” to come through.  But hardly anyone read it for a long time.  Yet, slowly, slowly, people kept reading and started commenting and linking it.  So it did have a life and agenda of its own.  It's always an honor when we can get out of our own way enough (by that I mean trying to control what's attempting to come through) and let Gaia speak by herself.  it thrills me that people are still finding it and reading it all this time later.  :)

Re: Gaia Bashing at Facebook

Deb, I'm delighted that you have drawn attention to this wonderful blog by Kathy. I just edited my profile again and was moved to re-read this once again. It remains the single best description of Gaia that I know.

Love,

Nicole