Gaia: Living in Language - Meta-Language and Ontology

Re: Speech acts, explored

http://StuartPeterson.gaia.com — Thu, 08 Jun 2006 03:46:15 GMT

Zoe,

Silly? This spirit thinks that your experience demostrates the power of language, and that is far from silly. You said in part-

"...they are then manipulating whoever it is they are communicating with, whether consciously or unconsciously."

So so true. That you recognise this occurring and are able to harness it is great, just watch out for the back swing and the Karma Posse! One of this spirits struggles is learning to use language whether written or spoken in a ethical, moral, and loving manner. And, being an observer...like a video camera with legs and arms, this spirit can definitely relate to that...just wonder who or what is watching the tape!

love and Light

Re: Speech acts, explored

Mon, 22 May 2006 23:57:23 GMT

I have always found speech and language to be fascinating. I once fell into a relationship based on nothing more than the use of language - he actually fell for me that way, and I for him (embarrassing as it is - it was an "e-mail" love affair, to begin with). It was based on poetry, word games, challenging one another with new and often exotic word challenges...okay, silly.

What's interesting to me though is how when one becomes aware of how it is that he/she can use language to their benefit, they are then manipulating whoever it is they are communicating with, whether consciously or unconsciously. It can be obvious, such as in a job interview. We all change our manner of speaking based on who we are speaking to, what we are wishing to communicate, whether we feel dominant or submissive. I hear it when I change my style. I do it in order to achieve what it is that I want. I hear it often in others. I've always felt like I was a "people watcher." Maybe that's why...I'm ever observing.

Of course, language is so much more. So much more fun! This, though, just came to mind.

Peace.

Zoe

Re: Speech acts, explored

http://StuartPeterson.gaia.com — Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:27:20 GMT

Thanks for the posts splaceman, food for thought most assuredly. The info on Native Americans is not generally known to the average person, and, this ignorance when manifested in their presence can serve to further reinforce the barriers between cultures. An interesting article I found, and lost, was on a South American indigenous tribe that when discovered recently had no words or concepts for things like murder, assault, rape, theft, personal property, etc. They lived communally, had no incidence of violence or crime, in all regards an ideal situation.
Something I'm going to label a "genetic memory" resurfaces now and then, about a time when this was not just an isolated example, but was the reality ,the norm. Before I disemble much further from the topic, let me propose that not only do we have to physically act in manners that encourage the highest good, but, that we will need to positively "talk" our way to a manifestation of a bright future.

May we all be blessed in all things, live in peace and harmony, experience joy in each moment, and bask in the warmth of Creations love.

Stuart

Re: Speech acts, explored

http://telesterion.gaia.com — Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:01:01 GMT

That's an interesting series of posts, splaceman. Especially the Aristotle.

It makes me want to read Aristotle again.

Rhetoric and Dialectic - hmmm.

Re: Speech acts, explored

Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:34:37 GMT

I also just came across Rudolph Steiner's Eurythmy as Visible Speech and Eurythmy as Visible Song.

Havent read them yet, but will for a personal project. Thought it could be relevant here since he describes Eurythmy as "Art of the Soul". A manifestation of 'subjective experience' and 'objective reality'.

Re: Speech acts, explored

Sat, 29 Apr 2006 06:42:17 GMT

here is an addendum to my post above, distilled from reviews of a book I am about to read, "Power and Place" by Vine Delaria:

European dialectic method is one of the key factors that alienate Native Americans. The western style of dialectics as practiced in academia not only champion a simplistic cause-and-effect reasoning, which is far removed from the Native American Indian world view: a more holistic, pan-theistic view. It also produces isolated, self-absorbed individuals alienated from their own society and even their own bodies. Such separation is incomprehensible to Native American Indians, who through language, view themselves primarily as members of a greater whole and for whom individual achievements are largely meaningless without the context of their community.

Pedagogically, Native Americans stress personal growth from early childhood on, while Western educational approaches concentrate on factual learning during which the harmonious development of the personality takes the second seat to professional development.
To the American Indian, this approach producess seemingly deviant and psychopathic characters completely out of touch with their community and nature, focused as they are on making money and selfish personal advancement.

Re: Speech acts, explored

Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:07:41 GMT

K<<<Imagine if we could classify every statement we make as a kind of speech act. What would that look like? How would it help us map conversations?>>>

it might be helpful to consider some terrain covered already by the breakdown of 'rhetoric' and 'dialectic', which according to Aristotle are complementing counterparts of the whole.

"The domain of rhetoric is civic affairs and practical decision making in civic affairs, not theoretical considerations of operational definitions of terms and clarification of thought -- these, for him, are in the domain of dialectic."

Aristotle's treatise on rhetoric is an attempt to systematically describe civic rhetoric as a human art or skill (techne). He identifies three different types of rhetorical proof:

    ▪     ethos: how the character and credibility of a speaker influence an audience to consider him to be believable. This could be any position in which the speaker knows about the topic, from being a college professor of the subject, to being an acquaintance of person who experienced the matter in question.

- promises
- declines
- declarations

    ▪     pathos: the use of emotional appeals to alter the audience's judgement. This can be done through metaphor, storytelling, or presenting the topic in a way that evokes strong emotions in the audience.

    ▪     logos: the use of reasoning, either inductive or deductive, to construct an argument. Inductive reasoning uses examples (historical, mythical, or hypothetical) to draw conclusions. Deductive or "enthymematic" reasoning uses generally accepted propositions to derive specific conclusions. The term logic evolved from logos.

- questions
- statements
- facts
- opinions

I would like to offer that departing from a structure such as this classic one –which unavoidably permeates every kind of messaging we are exposed to in society, has an underlying influence in the ways we are accustomed to think and organize what we say –and how we say it.
Perhaps through reverse engineering we can demarcate the modes that best fit our ideal model of positive thinking and communing.

peace,

fz

Re: Speech acts, explored

Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:34:48 GMT

Stu<<<And is it any coincidence that words are indeed used intentionally as weapons and assault mechanisms not only in ancient practices, but in modern combat including business?>>>

absolutely, a good resource to monitor the semantic landscape constantly being recontextualized is William Safire's column in the New York Times Magazine on Sundays. There he scrutinizes the current political and vernacular usages of language in a historical and socio-cultural context. A good tool to de-code the intentional usage of language especially when it is intended to divide and control. It can be quite humorous as well.
He does tend to remain objective despite the fact that he is politically right-leaning.

peace.

Re: Speech acts, explored

http://StuartPeterson.gaia.com — Wed, 26 Apr 2006 04:44:32 GMT

Greetings and Blessings to All,

That words have power is not forgotten, and even the current state of human reality can be attributed in a significant amount to speech acts. Who was it that said "The pen is mightier than the sword..."? How often I have caught myself afterwords wishing that I had not uttered verbal barbs upon my fellow spirits. And is it any coincidence that words are indeed used intentionally as weapons and assault mechanisms not only in ancient practices, but in modern combat including business?

Weaving a new reality of love, harmony, peace, and well being will require that our speech acts mirror our spiritual intent, and are not just careless responses from the ego.

May you and yours be blessed in all things, know long lasting peace, experience joy in each day, and bask in the warmth of Creations love.

Stuart

Re: Speech acts, explored

Sun, 23 Apr 2006 22:59:41 GMT

I'm new to Zaadz so hope this is an appropriate post, etc.

How about "killing time, buying time, biding time, wasting time, etc. " I love how we westerners are consumed with time.

Sage

Re: Speech acts, explored

http://nirvana-tsunami.gaia.com — Fri, 07 Apr 2006 01:56:01 GMT

Hmmm speech acts..
denial
excite
song
catalyze
side-step
complain
distract
flirt
obfuscate
plead

Good points Maile...I gotta think about them...

Re: Speech acts, explored

http://simplicity-seeker.gaia.com — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:24:05 GMT

If you haven't already, you might want to check out J.L. Austin (one of Searle's teachers)'s How to Do Things with Words.

in addition to those speech acts you mentioned, he give us some in gray areas. For example: verdictives (assesments, diagnoses, rankings, etc.). Are these their own class? Are they a special case of some other type of speech act?

And what about when you stub your toe? "Ouch!" What kind of speech act is that? Are you really trying to communicate something? It's more than a mere reflexive response, at least more than merely instinctual since the specific sound/word varies by culture. David Kaplan at UCLA has had some interesting things to say about this topic, if you can find any of it written down.

How about talking in your sleep? Is that a speech act? Can you really be talking if you don't know you're doing it? If you don't know, then you certainly don't intend to communicate. Isn't that part of speech? Maybe not.

Speech acts, explored

http://katin.gaia.com — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:07:10 GMT

Imagine if we could classify every statement we make as a kind of speech act. What would that look like? How would it help us map conversations? Anyone that has completed high school knows about a few classifications already: - questions - statements - facts - opinions These are pretty general, and can be useful. Adding specific types of these classifications can add additional insight and possibilities. Folks that are linguistically oriented can probably name a few more: - promises - declines - declarations What others are there? What speech acts can you think of? What speech acts do you use everyday?