1Vector3 : "Relentless Wisdom"

Re: Why Kiva doesn't work for me

1Vector3 said Nov 22, 2007, 10:27 AM:

 

Hi Apollia, I have some energy around these matters because I have been a recipient of such help, and feel passionate about offering such help. So I would like to add some comments here.

I absolutely and totally agree that gifts are better than loans, most of the time, in most ways. Gifting feels MUCH better to me as a giver, anyway, other things being equal. And an outright gift can be more uplifting and inspiring and expansiveness-promoting for a receiver, too, I know from personal experience.

However there is the old adage that people tend to place more value on–and treat more respectifully– what they exchange value for, rather than what they get for free, and “interest” is simply an exchange of value for the value of the money borrowed. That “value” is defined as the fact that the use of that money is “lost” to the giver for the period of the loan. So in some cases it might actually help the recipient use the money more wisely, knowing it has to be paid back, and paid FOR (through interest.)  A loan is just as much a “purchase” as anything else that one would pay for. Trouble is, impossible to really identify these folks (who would value the loan more if needing to repay) ahead of time. So perhaps paying back loan, and perhaps adding interest to principal payback, could be OPTIONS for the recipient.

Also, no one is FORCING people to take these gifts or loans, so I don't regard them as victims of anything they voluntarily agree to, such as payback or interest. I think no one is ”forced to spend time, energy, and money paying back a loan.” (Your words, my emphasis.) In my view, force is the threat of (or use of) violence or imprisonment or fine, and doesn't pertain to obligations voluntarily assumed, by choice. It's crucially important to make that distinction, and not toss that word around lightly. Obligations are not force. “Slave for months to pay back…..” implies slavery, and is not literally true; slavery is a nonvoluntary relationship. [Though of course I can slave over a hot stove, and it's THAT kind of slavery, sometimes.] That said, it would be nice if recipients had options of not paying back principal, or not paying interest.

What level of interest is “too high?” That's a highly complex economic/political question, getting into free-choice matters, so I just offer the thought that this question/issue might invite more than a subjective emotional perception. Of course, we are all entitled to those subjective emotional perceptions, and I don't like 21% either!!!!!

It's very true that the amount many people would donate is so small they don't NEED the payback of principal, nor the interest. As I have been saying, it would be GREAT if some folks opted for direct gifts. OTOH some donors might want to promote accountability in the recipients by asking for payback and perhaps also interest.

I have gotten over my head in credit card debt, too, and I do believe our culture/society has a pathological attitude toward spending/debt, but I don't blame the companies involved. They are just doing what the society is into. And again, I don't give my power away by blaming them for the choices I made. That said, I wish our young folks were better educated about debt, not just into casual Plastic-Money “with no thought for the morrow.”


I just love it when someone evokes me into setting forth my ideas, so I am delighted you experienced my questions that way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ALSO, I am SURE I have heard of micro-donation organizations that don't necessarily require repayments or interest, especially there is a woman-to-woman one somewhere out there, but I can't remember any specifics now. I will be on the alert, as I really do believe all such organizations should know about one another and should synergize.

Thanks for evoking THESE thoughts from the peanut gallery. I so admire you for stepping up and putting your energy where your mouth is, and actually creating something. My kibbitzing is not meant in any way to diminish your achievement. Anyone can come along later and criticize; not everyone has the courage and dedication to create. I acknowledge and appreciate the difference. And I hope my thoughts prove useful for your endeavor. And I invite dialogue, respectful and constructive, from anyone.

Blessings, OM Bastet