Gaia: Multilingual Group - off-the-beaten-verb languages & invented tongues of unusuality extraordinaire - Conscious Language Evolution

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://MikeyDineen.gaia.com — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:49:56 GMT

Well y'all & particularly OM (the reverend one) Meenakshi(the communicator extraordinaire) & Balder(the hairless one) Thank you all for your activity- yes sometimes I'm achingly funny (as in my choice of Balderdash as a name) -this was more aching than funny- but hey! Don't want to be practically perfect &/or basically banal,. As you will have noticed , I have changed the title of the board- (and Balder (as a french speaker, I am slow to use the term "con" as in French it means various, not so thrilling things, like AH & C*** among others)pardon my French,
Keep up the good work on the board please/por Favor/per favore/ Svp,-thanks,
Mike

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:14:22 GMT

Meenakshi,

Thank you for your comments. When I lived in Sedona, which was the time during which I created this language and gave a lecture on "Conscious Language Evolution," people made similar observations about the possible origins of this sort of thing.

As I said to Grey also, I agree that working in novel ways with an existing language is probably a more practical way to go. I used to fantasize that if one day I put together the world music ensemble I've been dreaming of, I might write songs in my invented language, or else I might use it in other artistic ways, rather than trying to promote it as a "real world" communication tool. But for real world communications, a more practical, more easily digested approach is probably needed.

Regarding your attempts to use language in conscious ways, I would hardly say they're pathetic! I read through your piece on hurricanes and found it to be very creative and effective. You are doing something similar to what Grey described -- and I think that is something worth experimenting with. I hope others will be helped by your work, and maybe inspired to creatively engage with language as well.

Best wishes,

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://ADLIAC.gaia.com — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:46:04 GMT

I'm slow on the uptake. I just "got" "Balder-dash" yesterday!!!

Thanks for your flexibility, Mikey !!! You're a great pod mod !!!!

:)
OM

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:41:00 GMT

I had also noted that "balderdash" and "gobbledygook" were derogatory words, but I expected you meant it playfully, so I didn't really mind. But one suggestion for a more serious board title would be the one I used when I described it to you: New, Constructed, and Fantasy Languages. Another would simply be Conlangs, since "conlang" is the term people actually use in the field when discussing (the very many) constructed languages that have been created.

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://MikeyDineen.gaia.com — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:55:04 GMT

OM & Balder, I named the board before really knowing that it would be so rich & wonderful & as it was on Balder's suggestion, Balderdash sprung to mind, please accept my apologies and suggest other more apt titles for the board,
thanks, merci, Gracias, etc.
Blessings,
Mike

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://Meenakshi.gaia.com — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 04:04:15 GMT

This thread is pricking some conscious aspects and also some long-dormant ones; specially as I am constantly trying to use a language that is essential dual to convey experience of non-duality....and also, aspects of time.

If I may, Balder, now that OM has gone there; it seems to me that you remembered a means of communication of long-forgotten human civilization or another civilization on earth or elsewhere. Or perhaps as OM pointed out, it's that past life thingie...

Feeling the awe and reverence for the brain that birthed this language while feeling no separateness with that consciousness that did so.....

Just because a new language may be difficult to spread and therefore not communicative enough; perhaps going with modification in English may be the way?

In the meantime; my pathetic attempts have been at trying to develop a "language of light" by extreme care with the use of words and expressions; and using color to convey the energy of words. e.g. Hurricane of emotions~ sea of calm

In short--conscious language evolution? Yes, I am for it.

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://ADLIAC.gaia.com — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 04:02:35 GMT

Hey, thanks for your great response, Bruce. I wasn't sure that I wasn't being presumptuous in doing additional "meanings" to your sentence.

All our thoughts arrive that way? I'll have to be more aware and check it out, "notice it." I am sure that many do. But I write so much, and talk so much, mostly I am only half a word ahead of my output, or else I have entire conversations in my head, or articles start writing themselves under the illusion I can remember every word.....

Yes, I think there is such a nonverbal character to those "great gulps" or "pregnant bundles" of meaning that unless they get unpacked at least somewhat, they often fade, like dreams. Prolly because our minds are soooo caught in worded experience, many folks barely venture out of it.....

OTOH sometimes the bundle's meaning is so clear, and the emotions so intense, that the meaning/experience stays clear forever, the understanding is burned into the psyche. Like a dramatic moment in a play or movie, the whole of the moment. Like my friend's understanding about his niece and nephews, which he did not unpack for quite some time, but the total import was unforgettable.

I'm not sure about Mozart specifically. Lots of composers say they "hear" the music and simply "transcribe" what they hear, rather than consciously putting bits and pieces together to form a consciously designed pattern which is then edited several times. But I never heard one describe the "unpacking" process.

I like the additional way you explained your intention, and the phrase "static actors and objects" as a contrast.

May you find a great camera soon !!

Blessings, OM

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 01:17:52 GMT

Dear OM,

Thank you for your wonderfully resonant responses. You did intuit the meaning I was attempting to convey - a petition which, because of its dynamic and open, participatory character is simultaneously an affirmation, an enactment of what is being requested. My sense was that, in assuming a participatory flow of perspectives instead of static actors and objects, God-talk would be fundamentally affected, which I tried to communicate to my family in prayer-form on that Christmas morning.

I know the pregnant mode of thought or communication you are describing - I've experienced that spontaneously or in meditation, where small "forms" arrive packed with information and insight that I then have to "unpack" over time. I have found, actually, that all thoughts seem to show up this way, but we don't usually notice it. But I've also found that if I don't make the attempt to unpack these pregnant bundles, much of their content slips out of conscious awareness ... leaving the feeling in me of a just-missed word right on the tip of my tongue, only bigger than that. (Didn't Mozart receive his music in this way?) But, because I do still find it necessary in general communication to unpack these bundles in words, I think it is worthwhile to experiment with new "bridge languages," as you put it.

I have had similar eye-opening experiences drinking in languages as you experienced with the Hawaiian dictionary. For me, I had this sense when diving in to texts on Native American languages like Lakota and Navajo.

I don't have a camera for putting together a Youtube recording, but I'd like to pick one up. I'd like to give you a sample of the sound of the language, and also let you look at the new script or alphabet I created for it. Maybe soon.

Best wishes,

Balder

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 00:51:03 GMT

Hi, Nicole, it did take a lot of energy to put this together, even though this is just a start. I was young and had free time, not having a family to care for yet. So, I just entered a sort of retreat-like mode of living for about a month or two until I was able to write sentences in this new language.

I haven't seen the story you mentioned, but I used to love Le Guin's stories. It would be fun to look at her writings again. I remember she was always very creative and thoughtful.

Best wishes,

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 00:45:17 GMT

Hi, Grey,

I share your concerns about creating an entirely new (and therefore, in some sense, alien) language. As I think I mentioned, Bohm also thought an entirely new language would be impractical, so he focused instead on a new mode of English that he called the rheomode -- "flow mode." He never fully developed it, but gave some suggestions for how to work with verbal roots to build new words in a fluid way. When I first started this experiment, I also started out first trying to "re-tool" English, but found I needed to let go of everything I knew to really explore what it would take to "order" my experience, verbally, in a fundamentally new way. So I decided to just start from scratch -- at least as a personal consciousness-expanding exercise, if not useful otherwise.

There have been other attempts to create new languages and new modes of existing languages, as I'm sure you're aware. You mentioned Esperanto, which aimed to be a unifying, unversal language based on "common content." But there was also E-Prime, a mode of English which does away with the be-verb...a simple move which helps cut through our tendency to take things as self-existing and "given." And there are a number of other experiments, which I may list in another thread.

Concerning new lexical conventions, I am reminded of an integrally minded philosopher, Ashok Gangadean, who has created a novel way of marking up texts to unpack further perspectives or information than conventional punctuation indicates. And of course there is Joe Perez's approach, as you mentioned; and Wilber's superscript markings to indicate level and perspective.

I'm not sure we really need an altogether new language, but I think it's worth experimenting in these ways -- no longer taking our language forms (with their inherent structural limitations and underlying presuppositions) for granted, and looking for ways to deepen and evolve our modes of expression.

I hope we can continue to think about this. I shared my language experiment as an example of what can be done, but I think there are many avenues forward.

Best wishes,

Bruce

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://ADLIAC.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 18:31:19 GMT

Ah, the verboten 3rd consecutive post....

Nicole, I forgot a more ordinary translation (if I am correct) of bouleversee is "bowled over." ???

And Mikey, the following is said in hilarity as much as anything else:

Balderdash means "falsehood" if I am remembering correctly.

And gobbledegook (note spelling) has a connotation of deliberate obfuscation (haha)

gobbledegook 2 dictionary results for: gobbledegook Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This gob·ble·de·gook /ˈgɒbəldiˌgʊk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[gob-uhl-dee-gook] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation -noun

language characterized by circumlocution and jargon, usually hard to understand: the gobbledegook of government reports.

Also, gob·ble·dy·gook.

[Origin: 1940-45; fanciful formation from gobble²]
-Synonyms gibberish, doubletalk, bosh, mumbo jumbo. Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. CITE THIS SOURCE|PRINT American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This

gob·ble·dy·gook also gob·ble·de·gook (gŏb'əl-dē-gŏŏk') Pronunciation Key
n. Unclear, wordy jargon.

[Imitative of the gobbling of a turkey.]

(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. CITE THIS SOURCE|PRINT

-------------

So there might be kinder words for this Board's title, LOL !!!!

Hugs, OM

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://ADLIAC.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:58:29 GMT

To clarify, it was this version I danced with:

Speaking to request: Divine Presencing (first-person plural experience) here where sheltering (first-person plural experience) while now dawning (first-person plural witnessing).

Forgive if the following is hubris. It flows from me based on your words. I might be unpacking your words even further, and also I can't get through it without weeping from the sense of magnificence evoked:

This one voice only apparently separate from all others, speaking in an apparently requesting but actually affirming mode, here where sheltering [us] while now dawning, recognizing and rejoicing in and as the One Presence which all is, including all here now.

Does that at all reflect the meaning you experienced or intended?
It all FEELS like the most glorious of blending of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person experiences of God, like a sacred ritual of old.... Shivers.

(Those are jargon terms roughly meaning God as experienced as I, as YOU, and as IT, outthere, external, things/events.)

And I gotta explain "altitude" as that is more Wilberian jargon: It can be loosely understood as the scope or depth of consciousness of a Being. Like bacteria to earthworm to rat to human. Different "altitudes." And among humans, there would be differing "altitudes" as well, depending on the scope of identity and awareness.

That's my briefest take, perhaps there are others more elegant.

An expectedly long P.S.

OM

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://ADLIAC.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:42:39 GMT

Oh my Nicole, I had forgotten the delightful word bouleversee !!! Makes me smile !! I think, if I am correct, the closest English version might be "end [or ass] over teakettle." Which of course is clunky-sounding !!!

Grey, it seems to me that a language which indicates the altitude the utterance is being spoken from and one which actually embodies that altitude, are different things. Both valuable, but different. Eh?

Bruce, I am gonna say two far-out things, no matter whether anyone here resonates or not. I bit my tongue before, but I decided not to any longer.

It's my guess, but not even as strong in certainty an actual impression, that you bring into this lifetime expertise from past-lives and/or -off-planet lives as a linguistic, no, communications expert. Specifically, the use of communications to raise vibrations/convey meanings through their FORM and not just their content. [Thus also your use of poetry and music in attempts to convey meaning in discussions like the Symposia and your blogs.]

An awesome specialty indeed. I have encountered other individuals who bring such specialties into this life. They usually regard their interests and abilities as totally natural and no big deal, but the manifestation starts young and continues even if it is not the main activity of the lifetime. One example: A guy expert in calming turbulent energies, whether it was a brain seizure, a riot, a chaotic business meeting, office gossip out of control, or a storm or earthquake....

Second, I totally resonate with your translation of the prayer, the one-sentence translation. I FEEL it in my cells. It moves like a dance of meaning.

It comes closest to capturing in words what a "telepathic" communication is like, in which information is conveyed elegantly in large amounts with small content. A tiny package of sounds+images+feelings that could be unpacked to a paragraph or page of meaning. Betty Eadie in her book Embraced by the Light describes this non-physical conveyance of information-meanings quite accurately and at some length, and she talks about the information coming "in great gulps."

A tiny example: A friend of mine recently went through a near-death experience in which he had made the choice not to return. Then he "heard" a communication which included the words "What about the little ones?" That unpacked to the following meaning: "You have two nephews and a niece, all very young. They are specially gifted Beings here to help uplift the planet. If you choose to live and remain in their lives, you could be of significant support, encouragement, and assistance to them in achieving their beneficial effect on the world, accomplishing their missions in life. It's your choice, but you are asked to reconsider your decision not to return, for their sake." All that in 5 words, conveyed in thought.

This is the "language mode" that is of greatest interest to me, rather than the spoken out-loud words, but I am totally open to there being a bridge-like language, like yours or like Sanskrit.

Somehow I see all this as related to your other post about learning other languages being expansive for the mind. WRT that I was going to share my experience of reading in a Hawaiian-English dictionary, and noticing how different the subjective experience of the world is in those two languages. Not just different but WAYYYYYYY different !!!!

The sense of meaning-flowing I got from your one-sentence translation I have also had from other language experiences, too, not all of them Earth languages shall we just say... It is exhilarating, liberating, joyous, and engages the entire embodiment: body, mind, feelings, spirit .... bouleversee !!!!!

Now if you could only embed a vid with the SOUND of your language.....

Blessings, OM

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:57:22 GMT

I am even more bouleversee, wow! How did you ever think all this up?

Bruce, have you ever read Ursula K Le Guin's book, Changing Planes? Whimsical collection of short stories including "The Nna Mmoy Language", where the words keep changing meaning according as new words are added to a sentence. :)

Peace,

Nicole

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:34:22 GMT

Thank you, everyone, for your responses! I will offer the translation here and then make some other comments in the next post.

I finished the initial phase of this project a few days before Christmas more than 20 years ago, and I wanted to "debut" it to my (equally weird) family on Christmas day. So, essentially, it is a prayer for God to be in mutual presence with us on Christmas morning.

First, the full Christmas prayer:

"We ask you, God, to be with us here in our house this morning.
May we walk in your light, and in that knowing, may we honor your saints.
May we realize your light within, and may we live to realize it in the world.
We thank you for our shared blessings this past year, and for the love of family.
May we always walk in beauty, honoring your way, celebrating your dawning on the Earth."

English: We ask you, God, to be with us in our house this morning.

Original: Om-alu yε deoš amas ymer undεš mal šai uĵerište.

Direct translation: to speak-to request-M₃(a.l.) God-G-d/sh here where house-Sp-d/sh while now morning-P-d/sh:w.

I don't expect you to follow all of those abbreviations next to the words! To make sense of the above gibberish, I'll explain each word of the sentence...

Om-alu, which I've translated as "We ask," literally means, "to speak (in order) to request," and it is inflected with the verbal ending -u, which indicates a mental class of action. (There are several classes of mental action which can be indicated grammatically).

yε is what I call an ambient locative. This language has "scene setters." An opening phrase of a sentence can "set the scene" for what is to follow. "yε" lacks semantic content, but together with "om-alu," it indicates that what follows is a petition.

de-o-š: deo is a verb meaning God - not as a thing, but as Presencing - divine movement and activity. (As some Hebrew mystics say, "God is a verb.") The verb is inflected, here, with the ground verbal class, which is usually reserved for spiritual verbs reflecting divine activity, but which can be affixed to more conventional verbs to indicate the highest or deepest expression of that line of intelligence or action. This action is made personal, and related to "us" (me and my family) with the -š modification. This verbal ending indicates shared first-hand experience. So, instead of saying, "God be with us," I am literally saying, "Divine presencing as a shared first-hand experience."

amas ymer is a locative phrase which is commonly used in this language's sentence construction, and which literally means "here where."

und-ε-š: undε is a word which means "to house" or "to shelter." The -ε indicates a spatial class verb inflection. Und itself does not mean "house," but is rather a modifier attached to eð, a root word used for all buildings; the class inflection would be -a, manifesting. This is often done with non-natural or man-made objects when in the manifesting verb class: the manifesting root will often be something natural, like wood or metal, and an element attached to it will give it its shape in manifestation. Here, -eð- is not a natural element, exactly, but refers to a hollowed-out space, as in a cave or a den (or a house or a church). But back to the prayer: undεš ends in the -š modifier, which we have seen before and which indicates direct, shared first-hand experience. Roughly, it means "sheltering" (as a first-person plural experience or perspective).

mal is a conjunction which means "while."

šai is a tense-marker, here serving an adverbial function, to stress the following word. It means "now."

uĵer-i-šte: uĵeri means dawning, the coming of morning, and so takes the -i, process-class inflection. -šte is a verb modifier which indicates first-person shared witnessing of an external event.

Together, the above can be roughly rendered as follows:

Speaking to request: Divine Presencing (first-person plural experience) here where sheltering (first-person plural experience) while now dawning (first-person plural witnessing).

As you may see, or at least glimpse from the translation of just the first sentence, the meaning and feeling of the prayer actually shifts as you move it into a more process/perspective oriented direction. Because it takes time to render all of this in detail, I'll leave it at this. (And if you've read this far, you must already be a saint with the patience of Job...)

Best wishes,

Balder

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:29:08 GMT

Same here, Bruce. How cool is that!

Love,

Nicole

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://drane.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:47:36 GMT

Bruce: I can translate it and offer a description of how the grammar works in another post, if anyone is interested.

Yes, I'd be interested in a translation and analysis of this new language, Bruce.

~G

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://drane.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:44:23 GMT

Yeah, language creation or "conscious evolution" fascinates me, too. I think from a practical point of view I'd be more interested in evolving an existing language than creating a new one. I mean, look at what happened with Esperanto.

I wonder if English, being pretty flexible and susceptible to rapid change already, would lend itself well to conscious evolution, or if maybe it's already got so much "change momentum" of its own that it'd be difficult to influence the direction of that change. So maybe a more rigid language would, paradoxically perhaps, be more suitable. Dunno.

Or maybe a constructed language could be adopted by a specific group of people (say, the "integral" community), and then that could eventually lead to more widespread use as the value of the language began to catch on?

Bruce: Do you have any ideas for how we might look at language afresh and experiment with newer, more Integral forms?

Not sure how relevant this is, but what comes to mind off the top of my head is a system of text markup that Joe Perez sometimes uses on his blog. Nowadays, he mostly just uses color-coding for "altitude" (in the Wilberian sense of the word), but in the past he also had a system of superscript codes for all sorts of other aspects, too, based on his AQAL-esque "STEAM" framework (although he seems to have removed almost all references to this from his blog, and there was another term of his I was looking for but can't find anymore).

Anyway, my point is not so much that a new language could (or should) use color and superscript codes to communicate perspective, etc., but it might make an interesting starting point for discussion as an example of the type of extra information that could be added to a language.

Must give this all some more thought...

Cheers,
~G

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://MikeyDineen.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 09:59:08 GMT

Two Things-
1. Bruce, I love your idea & can't wait to learn more, and get the translation of what you wrote.
2. Welcome aboard to both you new comers, Bruce (the hairless one!?) and Patty. It is nice to see you both taking an active part so soon after joining. And thank you too, OM (the reverened one) for jumping in so quickly with your comment. ( So it was really 3 THINGS)
Mike (the long-winded one).

Re: Conscious Language Evolution

http://imagineIt.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 09:27:02 GMT

I would love to hear the translation!!!!