The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

I have just invited some of my friends from our
waristerror group.here-
we have been vigiling against the illegal war in
IRAQ for over a year now.
They are such beautiful people -it will be nice if
some of them join with us.
I am the little ” Black Sheep” so to speak as they
are members of the Catholic Workers Movement -
amongst other things.
I deeply admire and look up to them all.

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Recommended Film

Why We Fight

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

What is a legal war? One that complies with agreed upon rules?  From this, an illegal war would be identifiable.

I just frame the Iraq War, or is it a police action?, as being completely wrong and immoral.

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

totally true -but going into War by ulterior motives
IS Illegal -probaly most people here don't even know there
has been for some time a movement to
Impeach Bush -the Oil man -
there was a call to Impeach Howard to -but
my response to that was well they would have to get
Bush first -after all he more than coherced John Howard
didn't he with his grand and glorious declaration.

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

hmmm…. I thought this was the global peace pod……

How do you expect to achieve global piece when you yourself are not at piece?

its just a question.

Guru Jack

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

“There is no way to peace. Peace is the way.”
This has been going through my mind when I think of this group. And then I realize, that beyond all action, activism, words, vigils, is peace. It is the source and the end to which we go.
And yes, to bring peace to another, we have to work from peace ourselves.

But also, that if I am not at peace because your way is not my way, I will feel that you are not at peace.

I have to first make peace with another person being different. Accept that they are doing what seems right to them. We each follow the dictates of our own heart-mind, as much of it as can be accessed.  And with this realization, we can act.
Or not.

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Meenakshi, I agree we have to make peace with another person being different.
For example. I agree a certain president is different from me. I agree we have different interests. And different morals. I am at peace with him being what he is. Yet I disagree with what he is doing. I accept that to him, what he is doing seems right. To me, it isn't.

I am at peace with a particular person in a particular country being half-dead. I am at peace with his suffering. I peacefully acknowledge our difference. And I still want to change the situation.

To me, the particular president will suffer much less from a certain change in the world than millions of other people would. In fact, other people would benefit with less suffering, while few will suffer more. It's a simple equation of total decreased suffering.

It is important to not confuse peace and idleness.

Moreover, it's important to understand that my definition of peace and the president's definition of peace may be quite different.

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

“It is important to not confuse peace and idleness.”- Zet, I completely agree with that. I think when we talk of peace, it is our own inner voice that we need to still, that seems to suggest that peace is a resignation, or a giving up.

Anyone who has brought peace into their life –[and unless we have, we can't know what it is, really; we are just talking about an IDEA of it]–knows how hard it is to work towards peace. When we are waging peace –or acting toward peace – we need to be prepared for every step of the way; and more dangerous than those outside us who seem to be the enemy, are our own thoughts, the inner conscience, voices of sages or mystics or teachers or parents or friends or opposers who may seem to go against what we are doing.

There comes a time, when two are facing each other, each thinking that s/he is in the right; that the spiritual warrior, being more perceptive and com-passionate, can start to doubt himself/herself: Am I doing right? Aren't I being as bad as the other? After all, I am about to go to war? Am I being selfish? Is this my own agenda?

That is when the only thought that can save him/her is the knowing that s/he is COMING FROM peace and going towards peace; not coming from war and going towards war. Only this certainty will give the fillip required to go through those last steps.

As I write this, I am reminded of a time in legendary past, when a spiritual warrior was faced with this same doubt. And from the answer that came to him from a Divine source, The Song Celestial ~ Bhagavad Gita, was born.

And even today, as we think of the war in Iraq; which seemed so wrong from the very beginning to so many protesters; the only way we can go the distance, is to remember that those who wage peace are as active as those who wage war.

Right, Sandy?

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Meenakshi,

Never were words of wisdom spoken….

Peace Activism is the way.. Preaching Peace is no way.

D

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Having just had my first class of Falum Dafa
taught to me ,here at home in my back yard ,
 by Will Feathers -one of us here -
I shall quote their words -
TRUTHFULNESS COMPASSION FORBEARANCE

I agree with Dave that we must be peacefully ACTIVE..

Words can solace our souls and spread the word and music
and song can lift our Spirits -but we MUST be prepared to
also “take it onto our Streets”-
always and at any cost or threat to oursleves -
we must “Rise Up ”

S

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Hi everyone,
I think it's important to understand the bigger picture with the “war on Iraq.  This isn't a “war”.. on terror.. it's part of a massive political agenda, and the U.S isn't there to stop terrorsts because the real terrorists are the people pulling the strings in the background who run our government (and Canada's as well). 

These folks are group elitists who are working a plan to dominate the entire planet.  Iraq is only a small part of their agenda, but it's an important one.  Even most Americans don't know that the U.S. has built the largest military base in the entire world in Iraq since we've been there.. and we have absolutely NO intentions of leaving. 

Bush Sr. talked about this global agenda in his final days in office when he referred to the “New World Order”.  He's the only president who has come right out and mentioned it in public because it has largely been a covert operation until fairly recently.   Very few still know about it however, because the U.S. media is also controlled by the elitists.

For us in North America, the plan involves the formation of a “North American Union” with Canada, the U.S. and Mexico all becoming one entity.  G.W. Bush has already discussed it with the Canadian PM and the President of Mexico and it will be coming down the pike in short time.  This is just another step in the plan for globalization.  A world without borders is the ultimate goal, and it will be a global dictatorship. 

As I said, this agenda is already in the final hours in North America.  9/11 was staged by the U.S. government in order to strip us of our Constitiional freedoms via the “Patriot Act”.. which is essentially a 1,000 page document that enables them to lock us up and throw away the key if we try to exercise our “former” rights to freedom of speech and speak out against what they're  doing (for more on this you might want to check out the current NYT bestseller “The End Of America: Letter of Warning To a Young American Patriot” by Naomi Wolf).

Some other sources in addition to ”Why We Fight” would be the movie ”Loose Change” and also ”America, Freedom to Fascism”.  These all are down to earth well researched works that reveal the truth of what's going on.  Also, if you want to know more about the Elites I highly recommend ”The Money Masters”.  It's a stunning 3 hour documentary on how this came about and the families behind it all who control the World Bank and in the U.S. the Federal Reserve.  They control the money.. which is how they control the governmental policies. 

I applaud what you're trying to do here Sandy, but we need to step up to the plate and get real if we're going to faciliate change. I see so many people on Gaia and “spiritual” people in general who seem to think that it's not spiritual to pay attention to what's happening and  to work for change.  They'd rather ignore the uncomfortable because it frightens them.  To be honest.. this all scared the hell out of me for a while.  But what an amazing opportunity to confront my fear.

We also need to stop being so “politically correct” and allowing injustice to go on in the name of “well.. he or she has a right to their opinion”.   BS.  Bush and Cheney and the people behind the scenes who are pulling the strings are Evil and there's no other way to put it.  This isn't a judgement.. it's truth.  It's one thing to look at the atrocities of the world and see them for what they are and call a skunk a skunk.. but it's something else entirely to be judgemental about it.  The former utilizes our powers of observation and spiritual discernment.. whereas the latter indicates that we have something within that needs to be looked at before we can effectively move foward.

It's time we stood up and said ENOUGH!  Yes we are here to awaken.. we have to or we're probably either going to annihilate ourselves in a very short time or we'll be mostly dead and those left will be working for the few who control our lives.   I realize these are strong words, but they are truth and there is a powerful need for us to take action now.

We have a responsibility as human beings to create our own realities.. consciously.  We do it anyway  whether we realize it or not and whether we want to admit it or not.  We live in a gigantic quantum soup that responds to our every thought and word.. so we cannot help but create what our tomorrows are going to bring.

So my question to you is this:  Are we going to take responsiblilty for ourselves and what and how we choose to live and create a reality based in God, Truth, LIght, and Love.. or are we going to allow those “others” of us (the elite).. who have such horrible agendas and plans for us that you cannot imagine.. to create our realities for us?  Consider this:  There are hundreds of millions of Christians around the globe who believe that we are in the end times.. (we are actually because it's being created in the quantum field every moment).. and that it's inevitable that we're going to HAVE to experience the anti-christ before Christ will come (this may be their reality.. but it isn't mine). 

My point being that these hundreds of millions are creating an unfolding global reality… and they are energetically feeding the elite's agenda.   So what then are we going to do about it? If you know anything at all about the Law of Attraction and have experienced it working in your life you know that the universe doesn't give a whit about what you create.  It's part of the learning process.  BUT.. the universe DOES have a desire for us all to Awaken.  God want's the entire universe to become conscious.. and NOT to be subject to ruthless dictators.

Granted.. the collective pain body of humanity right now is so huge that it's causing massive awakening.. and that in itself can be seen as a positive movement.. but there are easier and better ways.  If and when we decide to consciously create these realities.. to consciously create our own awakenings.. and those of others.. and to consciously create living Peace and Love.. then we CAN and WILL make a difference in a very short period of time.

Case in point:  I had occasion to change the weather in Pagosa Springs CO one summer when I was stIll living in the forest.  The newcasters were calling for more drought and wildfires.. and the people of the community were so filled with fear that I could see they were bringing down upon them that which they feared the most.  So when I heard the forecast on the radio it raised my hackles.. and I said “Not on MY watch!! This isn't going to happen if I can do anything about it!!”  And I set to work driving all of the forest roads, chanting and invoking the Christ and the return of Sacredness to the land.  I could feel that it was the activity of human beings who were causing the drought in the first place.. and all that needed to happen was to restore the energies by affecting the quantum field.

Long story short.. it started raining after a month and it rained every day from the first of July until I left in the middle of September.  I also set the intention that it would continue through the time I was gone and it did.  Upon my return the following June I learned that Pagosa Springs was the ONLY place in the entire Southwest U.S. that experienced not only normal.. but ABOVE normal moisture for that 12 month period.  As soon as I dropped my intention however.. the weather returned to drought.. but by then the situation was sufficiently diffused so that the folks in Pagosa didn't burn down their community and half the forest out of ignorance and fear.

I told this story because it's indicative of how easily we can influence outcomes.  I knew the town of Pagosa was going to burn down if I didn't do something.. so I took action.  In the same way.. we desperately need to take action and invoke the consciousness of the Christ on the planet and in each and every one of our lives.  Whether or not we can override the negativity of humanity remains to be seen.. but if we do nothing we certainly cannot.  The way I see it is that the least we can do is to create a different reality for ourselves and if and when things get ugly we won't have to be here to experience it.  I know in my heart of hearts that we can create an opening into a different reality if we choose not to live in Hell and work to do affect change.

In the big picture of the universe it doesn't really matter that much whether we annihiliate ourselves.. because God is VERY patient.. but I also do not believe this is what God desires for us.. in fact I know it's not.  We can do something to bring consciousness and healing to the earth and humanity and it matters a great deal whether we do it or we don't.  What hangs in the balance is our very future.  We have a choice.. we can accept our power as Christs on the planet and we can align ourselves with God's Will for us to live as awakened beings in Peace and Love and create beautiful lives for ourselves.. or we can weenie out and let the Dark Lodge (the movement of Satan on the planet) rule.  The choice is entirely ours.  I just hope there are a lot of spiritual warriors out there.
love/peace
John

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

John -I thankyou with all my heart for the information in
your previous post and you have not only confirmed my suspicions
but also given me so much more knowledge about the true situation.
May I PLEASE print your post and also paste to my other groups-
crediting your name, of course ( or nom-de-plume) if your prefer?
The waristerror group I work with and vigil with would be honoured
to learn this much more.
I will not do so however , until I have your permission.
Peace to you -our savior of Iraq.
Sandy

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Well said, John!  My sentiments exactly!  We have to find other ways.  And they are there.

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

I have been vigiling for over a year now with my
friends in our waristerror group.
We have “claimed” a corner on a main road from the City
and the road up to our local Army Barracks .
We have our placards ,which we up-date quite frequently -depending
on Political Situations during the week.
The Soldiers wer a little “edgy” with us at first -but now
they understand that we have our Freedom of Speech to
protest against not only the War in Iraq and Afghanistan ,but also
other causes.
We are only pleading for them -after all -to
“Bring all our Troops Home”-
we feel we have achieved a deal of success.
We go to the Barrack Gates also -when there are  enough
of us there -I even manged a “face off” with John Howard -
before he LOST the last Election.
This movement has spread to World-Wide events and I have many links
I can post up here -but am pretty pressed for time at the moment.
You can read some of the info on my msn site -of which I am the manager ,
by going to ..
http://groups.msn.com/mitcheltonpeacepreservationmovement -
sandy

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

John,

Intriguing synopsis.

Only two things to offer.

1) Bush and Clinton are complicit in this … 20 years of rule so far, and more to come.  The powers that be needed a Republican and Democratic President… so that voters still view they have the right to choose their leader and elected officials.  It is critical to the powers that they have another 8 years to execute thier plan… Hillary is preferred, McCain is ok.. Obama is too much of a threat.

2) Love is the answer… but it will never be enough to slow down or stop what is happening… what we must commit to is that love prevails the destruction that is coming when the Beasts play thier hands out in the open…

Be not afraid… love is the answer.

Love,

Dave
2)

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

I'm as big a conspiracy theorist as anyone, and I believe that Bush and his cronies do have a New World Order agenda. Despite their immense power, I don't think it's as broad as they (or some of us) believe. This group is still a relatively small group, and they are out of touch with reality as proven over and over again in how the policies under the present Bush have panned out.

The same sources I've read that support some of your assertions also claim the our own generals basically vetoed Bush's planned invasion of Iran last fall. Not because they're touchy feely nice guys but because they knew, as apparently our own leaders do not, that our army cannot possible succeed in such a venture.

It's bad, but there are many powers and forces in this world.

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

I tend to agree Negoba.

Methinks this is the extent of the strategies:

1) To ensure long term control of critical resources (oil- Mid East and Canada, water-Canada, and cheap labour- Mexico)

2) To establish economic, political and military control in the Mid East ( to protect Israel from Moslem threat, to have a central base of military and intelligence operations - keeping an eye on Iran, India/Pakistan, Palestine, Russia and China.)

The longer term total world order is a vision, rather than a strategy right now.

Who really knows?

D

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

We truly should condemn the Iraq war as particularly depraved as wars always are. Though, save for pacifists, there may be just wars in the context of true self-defense– the Iraq war is not based on any degree of self-defense, therefore should be condemned.

It is immoral, in that it is not remotely justified by any degree of self-defense. It is cynical, in that it preys on the emotions of people reacting to 911, and it is clearly illegal in the context of international law, treaties, and UN mandates. Additionally, it is based on exploiting the Iraqi people, and has caused more suffering than it pretended to eliminate.

In a larger context we should create movements to irradiate all wars. Specifically create movements in all countries to disband all armies, and institutions of war, as a prelude to banning war, as well as the creation of weapons of mass destruction.

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Well said  Zakariyya ~
this is exactly what we need to do know.

My aim is to find us good people and hand-pick a World-Council -such as there
has never been before -
“the Global Governing Goodie's “  (my term -but open for
suggestion's ” )Lol -
then re-build the Governing Bodies in EVERY COUNTRY.

World Peace , Revolution without the War
-THEY
have done that over and over.

As I was told last night by an angry,sarcastic drunk when
I said I was going for a Peaceful Revolution , that it couldn't be done
that way and when I said IT CAN -
I was told well it will be WORLD-HISTORY -which was a
back-handed compliment -I suppose!

Many people are aware of my intentions -I have been working
this project for about 16 years now,.
This is my THIRD time I have got this far -I have been stopped-
but that is another story!

But this is why I went to hard and full on this time -it was
getting very tedious.

I told friends if they couldn't stand the heat they could
“get out of the Kitchen” !
The worst one of  all is now sorry for himself and wishes he did -
so do I -the lengths they went to ,to stop me were life-threating
enough -
just as it was taking it out in real life …..and this
is my copywrite article (don't know how to do the symbol)
so this will have to do !!!
I have to trust you all asyou had to trust me…

peace- and may the force be with you all….

sandy hay
03.05.08

12.02 pm EST

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Drunks! say no more, not a very imaginative drug. Show me the violent revolution that has achieved a lasting peace!
We have to get this right, and judging from the past a new method would seem to be our only hope.
 If we build a peace with the bricks of war………..

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

really enjoyed reading this thread…thnx for all who contributed; it has been a while, but i have seen all those films…cried like a baby when i watched them…

Sandy, i really would like to comment on how much i admire your courage and determination to make a difference…follow your passion…

one thing we should remember…someone very wise once said…

if you want peace, prepare for war…

this however, does not mean that the war for peace would ever be one fought with violence…Martin Luther King Jr. is a great example…

i would also like to mention in regards to 'who has the power', and why we are 'really in Iraq'…it goes much deeper than oil, or even Bush's so-called 'good intentions' to democratize the Middle East…

it is not something that i feel comfortable speaking about in an open forum however; one thing, there is not any specific proof really…just a lot of detailed, yet scattered information floating around that when you put it 'all' together, makes a lot of sense…in a 'crazy' way…lol

anyways, thnx for inviting me to the peace party Sandy…

always, star…

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Star, I really would like it if you could elaborate a bit more?
I am curious and open to what you suggested about
“detailed, scattered information”,floating around.

We all try to make sense for this war and if you believe there are
other reasons for the war in Iraq,besides what we have mentioned,
it would be good to know them.

Peace,
sandy

Re: US to pull Troops from Iraq

 The United States has agreed to pull Troops out of Iraq. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24225742-23109,00.html 

Combat Troops will be out by June 2009
and all Troops by the end of 2011.

Re: US to pull Troops from Iraq

 While it is good that there is aa agreement to pull the troops out I can't help but wonder about the timing. It seems that the first ull out will happen after bush leaves office. I just hope that this isn't a political manuver to help Mccain win the election which might be revoked afterwards for some obscure reason. I guess right now we can only hope for the best.

Re: US to pull Troops from Iraq

I'm afraid I have to agree with your sentiments Randy53-
and my friends I work with in our waristerror group
are also worried.
As you say -we can only hope for the best, in that this agreement
is honored.

Re:"Notes on a Scandal"

This article was sent to me by a friend of mine-
and is written by  a Soldier in Iraq
http://www.radaronline.com/from-the-magazine/2008/08/scott_beauchamp_the_new_republic_scandal_01.php?source=cmailer
it is quite an eye opener on just what war can do to Soldiers.

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Dear friends,

Just today, I was watching the annual fireworks show from home (sadly I don't go down to the Cincinnati Riverfront much these days… yet I digress)… and on TV I see a “party” being held in “honor” of soldiers who were wounded in Iraq, Afghanistan… and I SAW them without legs, arms, etc and I immediately thought, by WHAT justification do these ASSHOLES have to send willing (yes, THEY enlisted) boys and girls overseas again and again to get their legs and arms blown off?

And one of them said, “Once I heal from this surgery, I'm going to put my artificial leg on, and go back to Iraq. I have a score to settle.”

Why are these people so willing to fight, to KILL?

One word:
“NATIONALISM” Fanatical nationalism.

I will FIGHT to DEFEND this great COUNTRY of mine… as they did way back in 1776 against the brits to make sure we are free, now and ALWAYS! *cue 'Proud to Be an American'*

So, this is just one finger of the hand that is closing in on everyone in this world…

If we want to STOP war, not just THIS war, we must FOCUS on this and tell everyone, “Hey now, don't' be a soldier, it doesn't mean the same thing that it did in 1776!! In fact even then soldiers were just a pawn!!! Oh wait, don't say that last part, you might come off like a conspiracy theorist NUTTER… like me! Mwahahahahaa!!! *cue maniacal laughter*

Let me put it this way:

To CHANGE a thought, we do not focus on it's effects in our life. No, we change the source of the thought, or the thought itself!

To stop war, we must think and evoke, emote and whatever about PEACE and Love.
AND we begin to CHANGE OUR MINDS about “nationalism and patriotism”….

Tell me, SINCE VIETNAM, would you ever say (either to a soldier or to your friends in conversation) 'killing and war is WRONG'? Or is it only wrong in certain cases??? What about Darfur???

NO, we don't, because those that are in CONTROL have made sure the media MACHINE talked and talked about this during GW1. remember all that? “Support our troops” and all that rubbish. Just another slogan for us to mindlessly repeat….

But when WAR strikes us, we all say, “This war is unjust!!!” ALL WAR IS UNJUST AND NONSENSICAL.

We GIVE away that permission when we say, “It's alright to take our boys and girls from childhood, INJECT them with nationalism and patriotism, IDOLIZE soldiers in movies and in history books that often SKEW the truth, then SHIP them over to be BLOWN to bits by other boys and girls who have had the same brainwashing treatment.”

To not say anything about it, for fear of retaliation, is to allow WAR to ravage our planet again and again. THIS is how we stop war. Not JUST with thoughts of love and PEACE, but with speaking our minds.

I learned from my past wiccan altar, that we must have a cup of water, representing the cup of the heart full of LOVE and also a SHARP knife of reason to cut through the bullshit. I have since moved on from spell casting, yet I still carry cup and knife… in a way. ;)

Love, Light, Peace my friends,

Gypster

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Oh and one more thing…

“That person is not the same as me, and he/she is against me/us so I am justified in whatever violence, whether physical or emotional, I take out on him/her for whatever my cause.”

This behavior is condoned AND encouraged in our society with archaic notions such as “An eye for an eye”, for example.

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Just imagine….

If there's no soldiers, what then would governments be? Would there be wars?

Would they evoke a draft?

What if everyone refused to be drafted?

What if no one voted for the next president? What would happen? Would there be a HUGE hub-bub in Washington? What would the jackass talking heads on CNN and FOX have to talk about?

What if everyone just decided that what these “leaders” say and do isn't important anymore and just stopped listening (AND voting… because to vote, we have to listen)? Like Merlin did to Queen Mab on that TV series in the 90's? She just went away, and didn't matter anymore. OK, that last one is a fantasy of mine, not based in reality… or…is it???? LOL

(hehehe I just keep posting… random 2 am wackiness…)

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Love your Imagin-ings, love your posts, love your “wackiness”-
as you call it, Gypster!

 http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24280672-23109,00.html

In todays news, Iraqi protestors have targetted the Republicans,
and they came in their thousands to call an end to the
War in Iraq.

Say NO to ALL War !!!

S

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Why, thank you, Sandy. :)

You know… waaaay back in the day, there were Federalists and Republicans.

Republicans back then didn't want a strong central government, they wanted more power to the states and a less powerful central government.

Doesn't sound like the Rethuglicans of today. ;)

I have lots to say about DemocRATs, too, don't worry. But I'm saving that for another day. :D

Love, Light, Peace

Gypster

Re: The ILLEGAL WAR in IRAQ/ STOP THE WAR

Look at his image of this darling wee child and remember
Let us not forget how many lives have been lost in Iraq-
and hope and pray with all our hearts that it will soon be over.