New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

The many responses, having slowed the process down, it’s time to start another “What Happens Now.” So I’ll begin by telling you what happens in my view. You are invited to follow with your ideas of what happens.

These four years that Barrack Obama will be president of the United States, according to cultural historian, Richard Tarnas in Cosmos and Psyche, will bring the world “a sense of epochal closure: ‘the end of an era,’ ‘the end of innocense,’ the destruction of an earlier mode of life that in retrospect may seem to have been marked by widespread indulgence, decadence, naivete, denial, and inflation. Profound transformation was a dominant theme (during quadrature alignments of the Saturn-Pluto cycle), as with the Uranus-Pluto cycle, but here the transformation was through contraction, conservative reaction, crises, and termination.”

Tarnas is saying the quadature alignment of which we’re speaking started in November, 2008, when President Obama was elected, and continues for the next three to four years.

Pursuant to our current dilemma, and the idea of contraction, conservative reaction, crises, and termination,  Deepak Chopra says that instead of contracting during economic hard times we should expand. President Obama, in expanding by trillions of dollars America’s debt, planning to suck up all the available money to lend worldwide, trying to spend America out of economic hard times, and taking control of private enterprises he feels are bad for the economy, this has been tried before. It has never worked. Obama is furthering world-wide hard times, and growing dissent at home and abroad.

Deepak Chopra informs us that the ancient sages of India held that so is the microcosm, so is the macrocosm. And Nietzsche asked if God made a mistake in creating man or did man make a mistake in creating God. The movements of the outer planets merely reflect what is going on here on planet Earth.

The year 2012, according to the prophets, brings the end of our world, and man's gods, I would imagine, and a chance for peace. Every ending has a beginning. What Deepak Chopra is saying is that we should expand our conscious awareness. Because of man's phony gods, we have no idea of the power we individually possess.

We’re moving from the Age of Pisces, an authoritarian age, which began with the crucifixion of Jesus, and into the Age of Aquarius, an age when people will be intellectually independent, will strike out on new paths, will use their minds more, will seek knowledge and be gifted with broad vision, will be people oriented but impersonal, unaffected by the emotions of the immature who look externally for their leads. Aquarian judges will be fair and just. They will march to the beat of a different drummer.

In the new age, all who fear the unknown and cling to the past will be left in a cloud of dust. What say you?

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

I would say that I too have heard that those who cling to the past-
will be left behind in a cloud of dust!
I find your writings very interesting  and worthy and look forward to
seeing some interesting responses!

Thankyou so much inlink -for starting the badly needed new thread-
as the old one was indeed getting over-loaded and slowing down.

I am sorry I haven't rpelied in more depth -but I can assure you I
have absorbed every word ~

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Get your pie in the sky here.

The populist view is to pick leaders who envision a world where everyone is treated fairly in order that we live in peace and prosperity. Having observed the world leaders now gathered in Europe, to plan a “global village;” gathered to discuss how to deal with the mess they have made, I picked up As A Man Thinketh by James Allen. (Barnes and Noble now have the same book but with the title As A Woman Thinkeh.)   The book was written a century back. I read it again, underlining the thoughts that most applied to my own step by step progress.

“The soul attracts that which it secretly harbors; that which it loves, and also that which it fears; it reaches the height of its cherished aspirations; it falls to the level of its unchastened desires—and circumstances are the means by which the soul receives its own.”

“The outer world of circumstance shapes itself to the inner world of thought, and both pleasant and unpleasant external conditions are factors which make for the ultimate good of the individual.”

“Circumstance does not make the man; it reveals him to himself.”
“Men do not attract that which they want, but that which they are. Their whims, fancies, and ambitions are thwarted at every step, but their inmost thoughts and desires are fed with their own food, be it foul or clean…Man is manacled only by himself: thought and action are the jailers of Fate—they imprison, being base; they are also the angels of freedom—they liberate, being noble.”

“Men are anxious to improve their circumstances, but are unwilling to improve themselves; they therefore remain bound.”

“Whilst aiming at a good end, he is continually frustrating its accomplishment by encouraging thoughts and desires which cannot possibly harmonize with that end. Such cases could be multiplied and varied almost indefinitely, but this is not necessary, as the reader can, if he so resolves, trace the action of the laws of thought in his own mind and life, and until this is done, mere external facts cannot serve as a ground of reasoning.”

“But not until a man has extirpated every sickly, bitter, and impure thought from his mind, and washed every sinful stain from his soul, can he be in a position to know and declare that his sufferings are the result of his good, and not of his bad qualities; and on the way to, yet long before he has reached that supreme perfection, he will have found, working in the mind and life, the Great Law which is absolutely just, and which cannot, therefore, give good for evil, evil for good.”

“Suffering is always the effect of wrong thought in some direction.”

“The circumstances which a man encounters with suffering are the result of his own mental inharmony… wretchedness, not lack of material possessions, is the measure of wrong thought… Blessedness and riches are only joined together when the riches are rightly and wisely used; and the poor man only descends into wretchedness when he regards his lot as a burden unjustly imposed.”
“A man only begins to be a man when he ceases to whine and revile, and commences to search for the hidden justice which regulates his life. And as he adapts his mind to the regulating factor, he ceases to accuse others as the cause of his condition, and builds himself up in strong and noble thoughts; ceases to kick against circumstances, but begins to use them as aids to his more rapid progress, and as a means of discovering the hidden powers and possibilities within himself.”

“Law, not confusion, is the dominating principle in the universe; justice, not injustice, is the soul and substance of life; and righteousness, not corruption, is the molding and moving force in the spiritual government of the world.”
“A man cannot directly choose his circumstances, but he can choose his thoughts, and so indirectly, yet surely, shape his circumstances.”

“Let a man cease from his sinful thoughts, and all the world will soften to him, and be ready to help him; let him put away his weakly and sickly thoughts, and lo! opportunities will spring up on every hand to aid his strong resolves; let him encourage good thoughts, and no hard fate shall bind him down to wretchedness and shame.”

“The body is the servant of the mind.”

“Anxiety quickly demoralizes the whole body, and lays it open to the entrance of disease; while impure thoughts, even if not physically indulged, will soon shatter the nervous system.”

“Out of a clean heart comes a clean life and a clean body. Out of a defiled mind proceeds a defiled life and a corrupt body.”

“Thoughts of malice, envy, disappointment, despondency, rob the body of its health and grace.”

“Until thought is linked with purpose there is no intelligent accomplishment.”
“They who have no central purpose in their life fall an easy prey to petty worries, fears, troubles, and self-pityings, all of which are indication of weakness, which lead, just as surely as deliberately planned sins (though by a different route), to failure, unhappiness, and loss, for weakness cannot persist in a power-evolving universe.”

“The weakest soul, knowing its own weakness, and believing this truth—that strength can only be developed by effort and practice, will, thus believing, at once begin to exert itself, and adding effort to effort, patience to patience, and strength to strength, will never cease to develop, and will at last grow divinely strong.”

“Purpose, energy, power to do, and all strong thoughts cease when doubt and fear creep in.”

“The will to do springs from the knowledge that we can do. Doubt and fear are the great enemies of knowledge, and he who encourages them, who does not slay them, thwarts himself at every step.”

“He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure. His every thought is allied with power, and all difficulties are bravely met and wisely overcome.”
“Thought allied fearlessly to purpose becomes creative force; he who know this is ready to become something higher and stronger than a mere bundle of wavering thoughts and fluctuating sensations; he who does this has become the conscious and intelligent wielder of his mental powers.”

“The truth is that oppressor and slave are cooperators in ignorance, and while seeming to afflict each other, are in reality afflicting themselves.”

“He who has conquered weakness, and has put away all selfish thoughts, belongs neither to oppressor nor oppressed. He is free.”

“Before a man can achieve anything, even in worldly things, he must lift his thoughts above slavish animal indulgence.”

“The universe does not favor the greedy, the dishonest, the vicious, although on the mere surface it may sometimes appear to do so; it helps the honest, the magnanimous, the virtuous.”

Intellectual achievements are the result of thought consecrated to the search for knowledge, or for the beautiful and true in life and nature.”

“Victories attained by right thought can only be maintained by watchfulness. Many give way when success is assured, and rapidly fall back into failure.”
“He who would accomplish little must sacrifice little; he who would achieve much must sacrifice much; he who would attain highly must sacrifice greatly.”

I would only add that when we do what external authority wills that we do, ostensibly for the good of all, we are doing their will. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that nobody knows as well as I know what is good for me. From a life of trying to climb a greased pole, for whatever good the above copied thoughts are to you, they apply to my success and a good life.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

The Way

“Intellectual achievements are the result of thought consecrated to the search for knowledge, or for the beautiful and true in life and nature,” wrote James Allen

Huang Po, teacher of Zen, speaks of One Mind. “Studying ‘The Way’ is just a figure of speech. It is a way of arousing people’s interest in the early stages of their development.” I like the idea of studying “The Way” because I do not adhere to the dogmas and doctrines of religion.

“The Way” is reached when the mind is understood. After all, the mind is not something with dimensions. In truth, the mind is the state of one’s existence. In mind, we’re like drops in the ocean. “The Way” is spiritual truth, when the body and mind can reach spontaneity.

Rather than study doctrines, under “The Way,” by one’s own free choice, one comes to know his or her mind. From Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount: “Blessed are those who do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled,” “The Way” is nondenominational. We are each and everyone with a mind, another word for our everlasting soul. When we all realize this—cast aside the doctrines and dogmas—we will live together in peace and harmony.

Huang Po: “The nature of the Absolute is neither perceptible nor imperceptible; and with phenomena it is just the same. But one who has discovered his real nature, how can there be anything separate from it?”

Speaking of the beautiful and true reminds me that my daughter gave me my grandson’s guitar. He passed away three years ago. The world lost a talented painter of the beautiful and true in life and nature. I used to play the guitar years ago. My guitar was stolen. I replaced it with a keyboard. I’ve started playing the guitar again. I’m a one-man band. The musician Pythagoras called it “music of the spheres.” No other life form that I know of appreciates music. Music, basic to human nature, from the beautiful and true to intellectual achievement: “The Way.”

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

President Obama went to Europe and further stirred the cloud of dust of which I earlier mentioned, and your silence is deafening.

The prophets tell us of a war to end all wars. It’s a terrible thing to contemplate. We’re at the end of the Age of Pisces, an authoritarian age manipulating the week willed. We’re at the beginning of the Age of Aquarius. Progressive reformers, Aquarians are full of humanitarian ideals, “giving Aquarians a reputation for keeping their heads in the clouds” (I read this on the Internet.)

Perhaps my head is “in the clouds.” Aquarians are lively, inventive and original. Anything goes with Aquarians, and being an individual does not worry this sign at all, I read. Aquarians are always out of step with the rest of the world and love anything that is 'different'. Sounds a bit like progressive liberals, doesn’t it? We observe that the hippie generation has not yet learned that, if instead of freaking out, they would channel their energy in a creative way they could do much to bring forth the quality of life to themselves and others we so desperately need.

The Aquarian’s life becomes infinitely more pleasurable when he understands his internal rhythm. He must have the freedom to be spontaneous. Freedom is a survival issue. When conservatism was in vogue, the Aquarian had a difficult time in fitting into society. In the Age of Aquarius, change will be rapid. Aquarians are “the forerunners in setting style, discovering new methods and showing the rest of humanity the way,” says astrologer Jeanne Avery. “He is a chance taker. He is willing to let go of the trunk of the tree to walk out on the edge of a limb. He knows where the fruit grows and where the spotlight can hit. He is not one to hide his light under a bushel.”

Says Avery: “The planet Uranus is on the ascendant of the chart of the United States.” Uranus is on the ascendant in my chart. Says Avery: “Freedom of speech and opportunity was the cornerstone of the Constitution… Abraham Lincoln, an Aquarian with Aquarius rising, was President at a time when those rights were severely challenged.”

President Obama says that he represents Lincoln’s principles and values. Under Obama, America’s rights are being severely challenged. We Americans are as divided now as we were when Lincoln took office. Obama’s deal—Roosevelt’s depression day New Deal—replaces the Constitution. Roosevelt’s New Deal, with all of its good intentions, motivated government to commence with the problem we face today: lost liberty. Roosevelt in 1933: “While it isn’t written in the Constitution, nevertheless, it is the inherent duty of the Federal Government to keep it citizens from starvation.” Really! President Obama, in the hope of preventing a depression, feels that it is his “duty” to spend the world into bankruptcy, morally, spiritually, and fiscally. My Constitution forbids it. But an object of affection, and nothing more, it sits in a glass case in Washington, D.C.
I hope Jesus was right. He said the meek will inherit the earth.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

I really enjoyed reading your indepth posts inlink.
Thankyou so much for taking the time to give us this information.
I am on a borrowed computer and do not have time to reply in full-
but I hope I can comment when I am home again.

I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your grandson-tragic when you lose
a young one -but am glad you have his guitar and love your music.
I find great solace in music also -
take care

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

I’m herein given you more on which to cogitate. Here’s my “far out” explanation. I’m on a different plane of thinking—many say, eccentric. It goes with my territory. I do have this to offer by way of explanation: In Genesis, Chapter 1, “In the beginning God created the heaven and earth.”

You might ask: “so what!” So, I don’t agree with the three religions of Abraham. I read in the Bible that they have brought us little more that disunity, corruption, and war. There must be a larger reason for the Bible. I maintain that bloodshed is no way for intelligent people to prove whose god is right and whose god is wrong. Quoting isolated passages—give me a break—in Iran, they cut off hands and feet. They gouge out eyes. They torture people for doubting the “Word” spoken by religious zealots. Is this what you want? They are out to rule the world.

Jesus gave us the right answers. We crucified him. So what? I’m not born in sin. I don’t bear that burden of guilt. I don’t look to these three waring religions for my answers. I look within. It is true that I’m born again, but not because I believe what Christian preachers told me. No way, Jose! I’m born again knowing who I am and my purpose for being. My life is good. I’m here to spread the word that by looking within we save ourselves from a hell of a sorry life, and leave something good for those who follow. So where are we going? We’ve moving away from Abraham’s antiquated religions and toward greater understanding of our spiritual natures. The padre don’t agree with me, but why not take a chance and think for yourself? Why chant meaningless verbiage and pray for forgiveness , live on the establishment’s guilt trip, when you were created to cope?

Pythagoras barely escaped the wrath of authority. They wanted to be the highest power and he posed a threat. They didn’t like his mystical powers. Although Greek, Pythagoras studied under Egyptian priests and took an oath of secrecy. Because of the oath, and since Pythagoras had to remain hidden, we don’t know much about his philosophy.

Pythagoras was an astrologer. He played with numbers. He was born at the beginning of the Age of Pisces. While the sign of Pisces indicates mystical power, and it is a spiritual sign, I read that it also indicates weak will; it follows the leader. We’re now at the confluence of two great rivers of thought: Pisces and Aquarius. We Aquarians are independent. We do not align our thinking with the authorities. We keep our energy for our own purposes. The same as authority has done in the past, as we move on, Aquarian independence will put authority in a box. We want peace. Would we, individually, seek to gain power by the sword or by cooperation—by living by the Golden Rule? You don’t shout PEACE in protest; you don’t pray for peace; you live by the principles that bring about peace.

Astrologer Pythagoras played with numbers. He noted that the numbers 1 through 9 stood, macrocosmically, for characteristics, abilities and events. His geometric ratios and explanations of phenomena, and especially musical vibrations—Pythagoras was a musician—stood for “music of the spheres.” And now science uses Pythagorean theory to learn of the characteristics of matter in its study of the Microcosmic. The latest theory, “string theory,” has it that fundamental to all is a vibration that cannot be subdivided. The “string” is one entity, but the vibrations from it, multitudinous. Einstein proved, mathematically, that everything can ultimately be reduced to vibrations.

You might say: so what! Classical physics says that the microcosmic doesn’t relate to our world. True, but where in our physical world is our state of conscious awareness. The cutting edge of science says you can’t leave consciousness out of the mix. Bell’s theorem proves, mathematically, that there is a dimension of infinite possibility (the microcosmic); what we consciously observe becomes our reality. It is an interaction between the mind and matter.
Numerology begins when God created heaven and earth from isolated hydrogen atoms and vibrations. “1” represents the male striking out on its own seeking positive experience that establishes its distinct identity.

“2” represents the pairing, the female—the gestation—when things begin to form.

“3” combines the qualities of 1 and 2. The action therefrom is social, when all things become possible.

We note that in his adolescence that President Obama had a problem with self-identity. His white grandmother sent him to the seats of higher learning, Columbia and Harvard. “Higher learning” in northeastern U.S. universities is the gift of the intelligentsia, those who see themselves as more in touch with reality than ordinary mortals. I don’t agree.

From his “higher learning,” Obama went to South Chicago, the most notorious center of U.S political fraud, waste, and corruption, where he got into politics, and conveniently established the political identity of African-American. In a relatively short period of time, Obama was elected President of the United States, and all things are social, when all things become possible.

So, where do we go from here? I’m not making this up. “4” stands for stability, a system of law and order. The Obama Administration is winging it.

“5” represents the freedom to take a chance. We’re all waiting with bated breath.

“6”, according to numerology, represents balance between harmony and justice. People are drawn to it because of the understanding that emanates from it.

“7” seeks answers. Here’s where I enter the picture. 7 tries to establish a philosophy by which to live. It requires solitude. I note that numerology gives me in my “life lesson number” the number 7; I’m here to use my mind. Numerology gives me the number 7 for my “path of destiny” number; I can psychically separate the truth from fiction.

Having learned this, we now come to the date and place of my birth. I’m Virgo with Aquarius rising. When I was born, my moon was in my Seventh House. In the song Aquarius,

When the moon is in the Seventh House,
And Jupiter aligns with Mars,
Then peace will guide the planets,
And love will steer the stars.

Moreover, I came to this world at the beginning of the atomic age, when the world would make a giant scientific leap forward. In the month and year of my birth, September, 1925, Werner Heisenberg published a scientific paper, known as the uncertainty principle, which was the forerunner of quantum mechanics. Heisenberg was Hitler’s atom bomb builder. Upon my birth, we entered the atomic age. The facts are stranger than fiction. I was on the high seas heading for the invasion of Japan when the atom bomb ended World War II. Otherwise, I might not have been here to tell the story.

Are we to become history written in the rocks? Let not your hearts be troubled. “8” will assume power. That is, people will begin to know the power that lies within us. We will assume personal responsibility and good judgement.

“9” is selflessness. 9 is the thinker, the artist who has developed the knowledge and skills through the preceding cycles to share with the rest of the world the joy of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, as written in America’s Declaration of Independence. In fact, America, being born on July 4, 1776, making America Aquarius, if we value our freedom, we’re all got a stake in turning this river of change into a river of progress: when you and I can be the directors our own lives, without government’s interference, without war, when we can all know the blessings of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Nuclear Free promises-

President Obama's speech in Prague was a world changing moment, a promise of unprecedented historical change on the most profoundly dangerous issue confronting not only America but the world,” wrote Dr. Krieger.  “In this speech he recognized the imperative for our common security of eliminating nuclear weapons and of America's unique moral responsibility to lead this effort.” 
 
The biggest change, Dr. Krieger pointed out, was the presence of true U.S. leadership focused on the goal of  a nuclear weapons-free world.
 
Last month, Dr. Krieger led a delegation to Washington, DC to present a petition to the White House. Called ”U.S. Leadership for a Nuclear Weapons-Free World,” the special appeal was signed by 70,000 people and supported by 100 organizations.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

A look a history reveals that the powerful never ever think in terms of a weapons free world, nuclear or otherwise.  I have not heard Obabma offering to eliminate all nuclear weapons.   Think what a dozen nuclear weapons could do.  As long as we've got power mad heads of government in control, it would be suicide to get rid of all nuclear weapons.

Thus, by depending on the powerful to bring about peace is like trying to make peace with a  hungry tiger.  The only way to peace is for individuals to take charge of their lives, and their government, which the American people are surely not doing.  The American people are content to depend more and more on government. 

Dr. Krieger could better spend his time trying to convince individuals of their moral responsibility to take the power they once had back from government.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

President Roosevelt, during the Great Depression of the 1930s, told the American people that they only had fear itself to fear. Roosevelt: “While it isn’t written in the Constitution, nevertheless, it is the inherent duty of the Federal Government to keep its citizens from starvation.” Roosevelt: “The balance of power between the three great branches of Federal Government has been tipped out of balance by the courts.” It was a rights issue. Supreme Court Justice Brandeis: “Property is only a means. It has been a frequent error of our Court that they have made the means the end.”

As to a right to property, the Court’s test, during Roosevelt’s time, was wether the right at issue was “of the very essence of a scheme of ordered liberty,” by reason that neither liberty nor justice would exist if such a right were sacrificed; that is, if property were merely the means redistributing property according to who politicians wanted it to be distributed to. Roosevelt’s New Deal law expediently sidestepped the U. S. Constitution. As the unfortunate result, in America, politicians' “duty” to the individual in need, quite naturally, has grown to astronomical proportions, and proportionate to growing individual dependence on government.


At the present time, Social Security is handing out more money that it is taking in and Medicare is bankrupt. So far, government has done zero about it. In fact, with the national debt already over 11 trillion dollars, the Obama Administration, in less than three months, has planned on adding another 10 trillion dollars to the national debt within the next 10 years.

In Germany, with the same thing going on as now in America—politicians looking out for themselves—their money became worthless. Hitler tried to take over and ended in jail. When America’s depression of the 1930s spread to Germany, thanks to America’s politicians, that did it. Hitler got control of the government. Why couldn’t it happen in America? The same as in Germany, there are greedy fat cats in America taking advantage of the people.

Likewise, a revolt in Russia had taken out the Czar. Lenin told the Russian people that the properties of the aristocracy would go to them, as well as the properties of the church. It didn’t work out that way. The Russian people ended with the mass murdering Stalin.

As a consequence of America’s politicians controlling the wealth of the nation, the American people now fear loss of jobs and depression. A look at history tells us what can happen when people fear and they are hungry. After World War I, after Germany had gone deeply in debt to finance the war, the government monitorized the national debt. It printed money with nothing to back it. At the present time, America’s Federal Reserve, in desperation, is monitorizing the national debt. As people spend, America’s currency is going to be watered down. So, as Obama’s economic stimulus begins to work, as spending increases, money with nothing to back it waters down America’s currency. We’re looking at hyper-inflation, ending with totalitarian dictatorship.

Whenever you depend on government—give your energy to the powerful—as history records, you wind up enslaved every time. Dr. Krieger could better spend his time informing his following of what can happen when government starts helping out the individual.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

I hope the outcome is better than you anticipate, inlink !
We have to hope that History does NOT repeat itself, this time.
I think we have to be positive that this time we will be able to
see change and a different outcome as the scenario has changed.

We must keep the hope in our hearts !

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

I find no supporting evidence that hope in the heart alone ever ends with a solution.  It is the same as saying you hope someone other than yourself finds a solution.  In never happens.  Hope without action gets one exactly nowhere.  It gets the powers that be where they want everyone to be—under their control.  It was not meant to be.  Government is the servant of the people.  Legitimate government does not rob Peter to pay Paul.  America's government is a lawless renegade.  The world is going to pay a high price.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

No evidence? Well perhaps not -but hope raises the spirits
and if we are to have a spiritual awakening, must we not also
have hope in our heart?
It helps to raise the earth's vibration and makes us more aware
of the good as apposed to the bad.

Imagine this scenario -what if we failed to notice the change-
did not recognise it in time -then it would pass us by and quite
possibly we would be lost forever.

Of course there has to be action too, but for those that cannot
participate in action, they can at least be supportive by non-action!
Everything we do must be in accordance to raise the earth's vibration.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

There is something about the physical universe that few understand: movement. We live in an imperfect universe. (Perfection doesn’t move.) We, individually, from the smallest excitation to galaxies, have a beginning, movement, and an end. We are co-creators of the universe. Without us, the universe is merely a clockworks. We’re meant to be shakers and movers; we were not created to sit in the bleachers and let our lives play out.

Like everything else in the universe, we move in cycles. Our planet is a living organism. The other planets reflect our movements. Coincidental with President Obama’s election, Pluto and Saturn went into disruptive alignment. With the outer planets, the alignments produce longer lasting effects.

Movement in a positive direction would be individuals becoming more independent, self-reliant, and more personally responsible. A negative direction would be individuals becoming more dependent on government, less reliant, less personally responsible. The best government, therefore, is the least government. President Obama, the most powerful individual in the world today, is about making government bigger than anyone ever has, and assuring the world that we remain dependent on government for generations to come by creating the largest debt to pay ever.

Spiritual awakening comes with an understanding of who we are and why we are here. You don’t spend your way into prosperity. Why would you think government could? Do you hope President Obama succeeds in his gigantic effort to grow government, his effort to enslave everyone for generations to the debt he is creating, or do you hope his effort will magically create prosperity? By merely hoping, you can’t turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse.
　

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Sandy, the cyber gods were eating up my posts last night. I'd posted a reply to this one: your words of peace within radiating to compassionate activism, brought such joy to me- ”Of course there has to be action too, but for those that cannot
participate in action, they can at least be supportive by non-action!
Everything we do must be in accordance to raise the earth's vibration.”

One way or the other, our words have to be towards solutions, not problems. As is said, 'If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.' You exemplify that you are part of the solution.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Don't have much time - this is my last day at work :) Just wanted to cast a response to this.

inlink - I'm with you most of the way on this one. I too do not see any reasons to claim that Obama is going to be any different than his predecessor.

But that's what you can expect. Change in this world will not come because of a new president (in one of the British Royal Families two sister-states.) It will not come until the irrational system of capitalism is gone, or at least weakened. This can only happen true the rejection of the IDEA that money is worth something other than the paper its printed on. I want to mention one example here.

Not long ago (though before the G20 summit) Obama was out saying that these “bailouts” will work, but it'll take time.

Because of this, I see Obama having one of the following three positions;
1: He has no idea about how the monetary system works. (Quite unlikely)
2: His advisers are lying to him.
3: He is lying.

But really - it doesn't matter whether he knows he's a puppet or not. What matters is that the people are informed. The people in power are only in power because we give our power away. Why do people not know this, because they do not have the information necessary to connect the dots.

Interesting fact: The word Government stems from the latin Govern Mente, which means to Govern Mind or taking care of the mind. Think about that, interesting huh? :)

Oneness,
Evo

ps. but inlink, in the end you claim that the universe is inperfect. That's some claim. How can we jusify such a claim - it would require something perfect would it not? This needs investigating! ;) But what I would like to say first of all, is that the universe is what it is. We cannot claim that the universe is anything else. Why? Because when we say it is this or that, it is merly a description of what it is - and thats to diffent things. The description is not what it is - it is something describing what it is.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Obama is a liar, firstly, because he is a lawyer: trained to do a tap dance around the truth; secondly, because he is a politician: a charmer with a glib tongue; and thirdly, because he has no personal identity. He likes to kid himself into believing he is African-American. He’s not, not anymore than I’m a Hottentot.

You are correct that we must get rid of “the irrational system of capitalism.” But that doesn’t mean to replace it with socialism. The problem is misplaced power. It is natural for anyone you give a grant of power to, if you allow it, to misuse it. The logical answer is to create a balance of power, and then everyone see to it that the system is not changed in such a way that the balance of power is destroyed. You can believe we’ve never done that.

Oh yes, to be sure we all hope—hope against hope to get a bigger piece of the action. Obama is going to help out the little guy and make the filthy rich pay. It’s been the theme of America politicians quite some time. Somehow there are always runts sucking hind tit. How do you figure it?

Why would perfect move to imperfect? The universe began with a “Big Bang.” Would it not be the most severe consequence the universe could possibly suffer for it to return to it’s original state? Why do you think you are here? Could you be here to sit and imagine Utopia—get totally carried away with the idea of perfection? Sorry to have to be a kill-joy to so many well meaning people.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

My oh my… one day I pray that Americans find peace in 'becoming human' rather than an addiction to the pursuit of ideological philosophies of right and left that have absolutely no value in the every day lives of the regular human race.

Capitalism, socialism, and Americanism are false constructs that only serve to divide humanity… rather than to unite us at the most fundamental level of being nothing more than human.

Obama is a humanist… and in being such.. will never be understood by ideological Americans… but will be completely loved by the rest of the world.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Hmmmmm … interesting points of view!  My take on it … first, i'm one that thinks if a mistake was made, then man made it when it created “God.”

America was a nation-state formed to be the “idealist” construct amongst the other then-existing structures of either nation-states or kingdoms and the like.  The Declaration of Independence sets for the ideals of humanity and furthers the highest idea of sovereignty of the individual – the highest humanist ideal we can hold.  And that is truly “being human” – embodiment of balanced, integrated and conscious free will.

The sovereignty of the individual requires the greatest cohesion to one another, the greatest level of trust and integrity amongst humans possible.  Otherwise, we have governments, arbitrary authorities and those that separate true humanity.  Obviously, the government we have in America is not, in so many ways, reflective the one based on the ideals forming this particular nation-state.  That is reflective of the individuals here in America not embodying those ideas themselves.

This is our current struggle, and whilest I don't like to make excuses for our bad behavior around the globe, the growing pains of youth are clearly evident today and have been for several decades now.  Often, our bad behavior is taken advantage of by those who should know better, as I view the lack of oversight and good advice from older nation-states vis-a-vis the global structures we do have in place is part of our global growing pains to create a truly human body politic that can have global cohesion.

True humanity does not value one over the other, but one equally with another. 
Then, resources and abilities, benefits and struggle are shared – the authority structures on earth currently allocates arbitrarily these things and rights amongst humanity now with quite devastating or exhilarating consequences.

Until sovereignty is claimed by the individuals that comprise those structures, they cannot nor will not integrate sovereignty and the ideas of equality, liberty and freedom for all in their structures.  This is the struggle amidst the several hundred year transition symbolized by the shift from Age of Pisces to Aquarius.

The struggle in creating body politics for us, idealist Americans or humanists, is there is no model (save some of the original peoples ancient structures) for the individual to be sovereign and create a government structure that is not based on arbitrary authority.  And, as originally pointed out, “authority” has been the model for all the modern body politics, the systems of economies, etc. are merely tools of that authority.  China and communism is entrenched in the same struggle as well.

While I KNOW America and Americans are not the only ones to hold this ideal and it wasn't started here, in our time, America is the front line in the battle for true humanism and the only real potential in our modern times to integrate true humanism into a nation-state political structure.

America is definitely in the midst of pre-adolescent development, with extremes and reactions and hormones raging … many things need to die here, a 'greening' of America needs to happen and a return to the teachings of the basics of sovereignty needs to be re-introduced to the mainstream consciousness.

This is beginning as we work first on re-establishing and restoring the sovereignty of the original peoples and the original nations that have endured and are the foundations for this modern nation-state on the same land. 

The Yugoslavian breakup is evidence that there are older nations/tribes underlying Europe's modern nation-state structure – and as both those nations-states and America and here American Continents neighbors work to build the next layer of unifying governments – the European Union and the American Union (as well as the other areas of the world in the same process and struggle), the sovereignty individual as largely set forth in America's declaration of independence is the 'idealism' that will allow for the positive and true evolution of humanism throughout the world.

Practically speaking, Obama was one option of the same choice.  He is, along with those in his equal position, in his position to coalesce the greater unifying global structures.  That is a part of our humanism as well – we are, by our human nature, equally independent and a tribal species.  To bring balance, some accentuate the “independent” some accentuate the “tribal” – true humanism has space for the extremes, acknowledges the needs for them to give a holistic balance to our collective species.  Obama will, I hope, also represent that other part of humanism, the sovereign individual and expand that throughout the world as well.  If he does this, then he will be a truly great leader – in America as well as globally.  Otherwise, he will be no better or worse than any of the past four presidents of this nation anyway.

We are eclipsing the “homo sapien” species now, and the new species “homo sapien sapien” or “homo evolvis” is unlike past evolutionary steps as it must necessarily be completely integrated with the previous step in order to fully mature and come into complete being.

'Tis truly interesting times to be human!  Personally, I look forward to these years of our Uranus-Saturn opposition to see this struggle play out on our global scene.  And, I think a bottom line for me is, there are increasing numbers of people understanding the need for a true human expression, fewer understand what that means practically, fewer still are willing to give up the security of the known, and there are still only the handful of people truly living the way.  As it always has been and things must become more destructive in order to push people to change so that critical mass decide they don't need leaders any more, they just need to walk their own talk and truth.

peace & harmony,
elaine
'freedom must be exercised to stay in shape!'

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Hi elaine,

peace and harmony to you too..

With respect and honesty… While I agree wholeheartedly with the American ideal that was created in 1776, and the role of America in standing for that ideal for its first 180 years.. I am honestly think that the pendulum of individualism and freedom has swung too far, and America has become a living example of selfishness, greed and an air of supremacy over the rest of the world.

Again.. I say this with respect… you said…

While I KNOW America and Americans are not the only ones to hold this ideal and it wasn't started here, in our time, America is the front line in the battle for true humanism and the only real potential in our modern times to integrate TRUE HUMANISM into a nation-state political structure.


Since the turn of the millenium… I am afraid the only people in the world who believe this are Americans.  What about Canadians, Britons, the Irish and Switzerland?  What about Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and New Zealand?  Or Iceland, Sweden.. sorry you get my point.


In truth, I do not recall the last time that America was 'the one' who was responsible for the conversion of nations to democracy and freedom.  Poland and the Soviet Union was the result of the Cold War.. yes.. but the straw that broke the camel's back was Pope John Paul II… and his return to Poland… and the ripple effect of his efforts with Gorbachev.  South Africa was a global effort…  and both examples of peace… not a 'battle” as you state.


The days of Americas leadership as the beacon of freedom are a shadow of the past… and hopefully, one day… the US will acknowledge the many other people and nations who are as adept at democracy, freedom, individuality and humanism as America is.  


Many thanks to the US Constitution… and the Bill of Rights… of 1776… but 200+ years later… there are others who 'get it” and are doing a great job within our countries, and on the world stage.


thanks for a wonderful discussion.


Dave

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

In reply, dear friends -
I don't have as much to offer, being an Aussie -
but I will say that perhaps America's power IS getting a little too big?

We all have our home countries interests at heart -but it was only
a number of years ago, that us Aussie's, were fearful of our country
becoming too Americanised.
We could see trends happing that we just didn't want to follow-
yet they HAVE happened -and been absorbed to the extent that we
don't even comment on it anymore.
We now have more youthful gangs and our kids do wear there
caps on backwards.
And, we have started suing each other -when we used to say -
“those American's will sue anybody for anything” !

Of course our economy is now following yours and we are
all starting to hope that we won't all be following a Chinese trend-
although , we, like you are now in debt to them and selling them
our Government bonds.

As far as Obama goes- well I shall just use the quote from
Whoopi Goldberg -
” Jesus was but a man -and so is Obama ” !

We should not expect too much from any one person and
perhaps in the future just one person will not have to much power?

To peace, harmony and love between our brothers and sisters,
all over this World.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Some thoughts on part of the conversation that jumped out at me, emphasizing the words that got connected:

Elaine :”in our time, America is the front line in the battle for true humanism
and the only real potential in our modern times to integrate true
humanism into a nation-state political structure.”
Dave: What about Canadians, Britons, the Irish and Switzerland?  What
about Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and New Zealand?  Or
Iceland, Sweden.

Seems like the front line is getting longer. Very heartening. I'd love to know more about this here or in another thread from anyone who knows more about  the battle/push for true humanism.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Would you like to start a new thread here on Global Peace,
 Meenaksi, on  Humanism?
It would be a welcome topic for discussion-
http://humanistmovement.org/

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Sandy, started here:What is humanism?

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Thankyou Meenaskhi, for starting the new thread -
and here we can continue with discusions on the
New President -and events as they happen.

We can watch life-unfolding and live in the hope that only
there will only be good to come -while still being aware that
-as stated here in this thread -the consequences could also be dire!
(although of course, we hope will all our hearts this will not be the case)

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Dave … I started a response to your first post in reply, and never finished it … so I'll try to get my thoughts back together.  Also, this expands on “humanism” a bit more as I understand it.

I'm not one of those rah-rah America's the best or even a deluded American, the Constitution ratified in 1785 is not a contract for individual rights of the people.  Once we took up arms in 1776, denying the rights of other humans to live in order to get what we wanted, we abandoned our principal that “all men have the right to life” and we integrated that abandonment into our nation-state governmental structure in our Constitution in 1785.  And, that was further diminished when our Constitutional nation was converted to a Corporate nation-state during our Civil War.  I won't even bother to comment on how much further afield we've gotten since then!!!  You already know!!  LOL.

(If you look at my “definers” in my profile, you will see how far down the list it is and its only given as a geographic, nation-state identifier so people have a bit closer frame of reference to what I am trying to communicate!  Labels are two-edged things to be sure!)

And its definitely not about who “gets it” or not – the movement for sovereignty is a global one, and perhaps even a cosmic one.  Most of the nations around the world, like it or not, the truth is, they are still monarchies with a democratically elected front-man government.  Those that use other political structures are really no different, except in the on-the-street reality for their citizens.  And the citizens always choose what they want, what they'll accept or they will uprise, or simply re-locate.  Being a citizen anywhere on planet Earth is not any different than being a citizen under, as you accurately pointed out, what has become America … save for perhaps some simple almost logistical characteristics of life.

South Africa – interesting you mentioned that because South Africa – and the TRUTH about what happened there in a conversion of democracy and freedom – South Africa is right on point – the illusion of freedom and democracy is soooooo deep all throughout the world.

We accept the layers of control that we feel comfortable with and, since we do not seem to really want to do much more in our lives than that which the system in place already allows us to do, we think we are free to do what we will – that we are free, even when we feel like we're pushing the envelope and protesting or asserting our will for the structure to change.  And, if its not acceptable, the structure does change when the people move for it to change – that's why power is ALWAYS inherent in the people.

When the Haudenausee people went to Switzerland in the 1970s, they did it under their own nation's papers – being denied by that nation, yet not knowing what else to do with them, the Haudenausee had to wait so, they spent days of protesting and waiting, chanting and praying – but not leaving and not abandoning their right to be recognized as they chose to be recognized.  They used the Declaration of Independence of the USA as their authority to be able to be the people of their own nation not needing to be “Americans” to be recognized by the Swiss.  That was the true beginning of the modern political Indigenous People Movement.  Only, perhaps in America will we be able to do that for not just the self-identifying original people – and do it differently than how the tribes in Europe have been integrated into the monarchs or other structures, but for self-identifying sovereign individual people.  Maybe.  (more on that “maybe” below)

But, if you decided you don't want to say, be a “German” can you claim “Bavarian” or nothing at all?  Or if you no longer want to be a subject of the Kingdom of Great Britain but don't want to leave “your land,” can you?  Will you?  Do you even have a mechanism or doctrine in place that allows an individual to do it?  Honestly, can the Friesians do what many of our original people tribes are trying to do here in America? The Netherlands gave them Friesian as an official language, so they are enlarging the people's ability to self-define, but there's limits there.

That's mostly what I was saying about the fight on front lines here in America – sure, there is a sovereignty movement all over the world.  America was merely designed with its foundation to give the movement its “on paper authority,” especially our Declaration of Independence. 

To some degree, we can argue that the UN Declaration of Human Rights does that for everyone as well, but the Declaration of Independence establishes the individual as equal to and able to replace the authority according to self-will, where the UN's declaration really only gives rights under the authority for the individuals.

So … back to that big MAYBE I left up there …





Maybe it is not in our cosmic design to allow for people to truly be
sovereign except within their own minds, finding the place on the
planet that allows them to feel that and exercise that to their fullest
extent – and perhaps we can continue to morph our authority structures
to continue to expand that experience for individuals – that remains
to be seen, and we are in a time when this question is becoming a
front-burner question.



OK … maybe I got on a tangent or two in my reply, but definitely I agree with you in all that you pointed out – but if there's going to be true freedom of the individual as a sovereign, America was designed to create that here on planet earth – no other GEOGRAPHICAL or POLITICAL place on earth (yet) has adjusted its structure or create a foundation for an individual or even the original peoples to become free and sovereign within the structure of a nation-state.  And, no its not about “america” per se – its about humanity, and its relationship with itself and one another (and as often that takes the form of 'authority' and “government”).

peace & harmony,
elaine
'freedom must be exercised to stay in shape!'

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Hi elaine… 

thank you so much for such a great, open discussion…  

to your point…no otherGEOGRAPHICAL or POLITICAL place on earth (yet) has adjusted its structure or create a foundation for an individual or even the original peoples to become free and sovereign within the structure of a nation-state


Actually, there were two countries that make up the new world… The US and Canada.  We both got going at the same time… it was the European white men (English and French heritage predominantly) who were the founding peoples of both countries.


It is interesting to see how both countries have evolved:


We both treated the First Nations pretty badly… we both decided the land was ours.  In Canada, we moved the natives to lands we did not want.  In the US, it was much more violent.  Canada has made incredible moves to support the re-development and freedom of our First Nations peoples… something both the 'white man' and First Nations peoples are working together on.


We both developed the east, and then 'moved west young man'.  In Canada, we established the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) to maintain law and order across the plains… and there was no wild wild west, as their was with the US… we don't have Billy the Kid, or Tombstone, Little Big Horn or other heroic legends that we adore… we are not a country that idolizes great warriors… I guess we are kind of boring that way.. but that is ok.


We created a Constitution that was based on individual freedoms, and never in our history did we have slaves, and blacks always had the right to vote from the first days of our nationhood.  Today, Canada is the most multi-cultural country on the planet… and we co-exist peacefully and respectfully.  


Here, we can all get rich if we want, we can practice any religion we wish, and we have universal health care for everyone.  3 of the top 20 richest people in the world are Canadian.  


Here, we are riding the economic downturn with much less hardship and loss of wealth.  Our banking system is strong, and the controls against excessive greed are a part of our system.  We no longer have government debt.


Sure, we have a higher tax rate than the US, but we don't have the same poverty here in Canada that exists in parts of the US.  So yes.. if we want to measure world greatness… the US is the greatest economy, it is the greatest military, and it wields the greatest muscle on the rest of the world.


Canada on the other hand, has been chosen by the UN, and other international organizations as the best country to live… 5 times out of the last 10 years.  


Finally.. when we can an election, it is 45 to 60 days later that we vote in a new leader.  We don't give the media the opportunity to sensationalize, or politicize our right to vote… we just vote as intelligent people, who know what we want… and don't need 2 years of campaigning for someone to tell us what is right or wrong with our country.


I have great respect for the US, and understand its challenges as the greatest power in the world… we are lucky that we don't have enemies that want to displace our world position.  


I guess my only comment is… I think Canada is trying to make individuality and freedom work inside of our country… in a balanced and fair way… whereas the US has been forced to protect its ideology worldwide.. and as a result… has become more focused on its role in the world… than the development of its values at home.


Love this conversation

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

A Christian neighbor once called me a secular humanist. Since humanism is mentioned a lot here, I’d like to discuss it. My dictionary says a secular humanist is one who carries a set of beliefs that promotes human values without any specific allusion to religious doctrines.

I became a secular humanist the day I departed the establishment, the day I went strictly on my own, the day I set sail on the South Atlantic Ocean, the day my life became the ocean, the heavens, and me. I discovered my God-self on the ocean. It was the beginning of my present life, you might say my resurrection.
Looking within for my answers allows me to see the future. Until I went to sea, I had no idea of the power that existed in me. It doesn’t matter what is going on out there; I look within for my answers. My life is pretty good.

This secular humanist doesn’t tell others what they ought to believe. I don’t think I’m different from anyone else. I think if others would properly value who they are, their lives, too, could be good—and without taking from others any of their rights and privileges.

Naturally, I would oppose a caretaker government. I would oppose redistribution of the wealth. I would oppose Obama. I believe the least government is the best government.

Pursuant to secular humanism, and free to believe what you will, MSN’s NewsVine reminded us yesterday of the Columbine school shooting ten years back that shocked the world. This kind of behavior happens for a reason. What makes people become psychopaths is inner insecurity. NewsVine gave us the opportunity to express our thoughts. My thought : Thanks to modern technology—life is made easy—many people have become self-centered, greedy, and personally irresponsible. More government is not the right answer. The irresponsible become easy prey for self-serving politicians, whose irresponsible purpose is gaining the power to control the people. Birds of a feather fly together.

Recently, Microsoft gave me the download for their new Discovery 8. I can now seek other references to my thought. I was brought to RedCliff Ascent Wilderness Treatment Program. Here is testimony by Jason:

“I just wanted to write to you and let you know that looking back at the experience that I had gone through there, although challenging at times, in looking back at the whole experience I believe that it was beneficial to me. To this day I enjoy the knowledge of being able to start a fire with the bow drill, and knowing how to survive in a challenging environment. The most memorable staff member was a lady by the name of White Winds, an older lady with the longest and whitest hair I have ever seen. I have a box of all of the clothes in my basement and every time that I open the box I am engulfed with the smell of 99 days of fire and wilderness.”

“While reading the first page of the website I noticed a quote from a former student who said ‘I don't think that I can explain it to anyone.’ I can't agree with them more, I have tried to explain to my friends and family what it was like out there and I seem to find that no one can grasp the whole experience. Some of my friend’s still can't forgive my mother for taking me away from them my senior year of high school but thank god she did. A couple of weeks after I was enrolled 5 of my friends were arrested and I would have been with them. I am now a senior at Western Connecticut State University and am ready to graduate and go on with my life. I really don't know why I am writing this but I felt it necessary to express at least a little bit of what it did for me. Thank you for your time and I hope the program is doing for others what it did for me.”

Jason learned a valuable lesson by being forced to depend on the least. For every action, there is a reaction. We’re now entering a thriving but turbulent world. Due to her myopia, America is teetering—losing her grip on power. And Obama is going about the world apologizing. Who else but for America’s politicians? Who needs them? Long live the individual!

America’s future success will be due to the Internet. One-on-one wisdom is a giant step in the right direction. Thanks to the Internet, a success explosion is taking place in the Network Economy. The Network Economy’s presence precedes momentum. This explosion sucks in evermore members. It becomes difficult not to be infected. The Network Economy becomes the power and prime mover. Them that’s got will get, and will go in reverse in a blink. Schemes that decentralize will prosper; those that don’t will be punished. Obama will take you over.


With high tech, the very best becomes cheaper and cheaper. So potent is chip power that everything it touches—cars, clothes, food—fall under its spell. Like Microsoft giving me Discovery 8, the most valuable services and things will be given away. We’re now living like royalty lived 500 years ago. In the not-to-distant future, we could be living so much better than now that today’s lifestyle could be like living in the Dark Age; in fact, so much better in the future that things could lose their meaning and our spiritual lives could be of utmost importance.

It all depends on us. Out of fear of change, clinging to the ancient past could end with humanity history written in the rocks.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Something I heard on the news yesterday has me thinking this morning about that fateful day in October 1929, when the New York Stock Exchange fell out of bed. The crash came about as a result of the American people relying on the value of their stocks going up forever. The American people were buying stocks “on the margin.” They put up ten percent of the value and hoped the increase in value would pay the other ninety percent. They lived in hope and died in despair.

Likewise, it was buying homes “on the margin”—hoping that the value would go up and allow them to keep homes people couldn’t afford that brought down the economy in 2008. Living in hope without reason or logic can bring unfortunate results.  But ask Democrat Congressman Barney Frank. It was all the fault of Republicans.  Why does anyone believe those liars?

Actually, Americans can’t resist the temptation to spend enormous sums of money they don’t have. Except for the painful adjustments, it has been great for the economy.  So, besides spending like drunken sailors, another problem: Americans want to help have-nots. Consequently, government entitlements, having grown to astronomical proportions, and are about to go bankrupt, yet we dare not touch government entitlements.  Pray something good will happen.

There is little difference in Republican spending and Democrat spending. The Republican Bush Administration took the blame for the economic downturn, and rightfully so. Bush irresponsibly doubled the national debt. By blaming Bush, Democrat Barrack Obama won the vote. The majority of Americans place their faith in Obama being able to fix the economic problems Bush caused with a big smile and glib tongue; and not only the economic woes, but the problem Bush caused by going to war with Iraq. The American people have a penchant placing the blame on someone other than themselves.

It took Obama practically no time to add a trillion dollars to the nation debt in his economic stimulus package.  With nothing but hope, no problem for Obama’s supporters. Congress didn’t even have time to read the provisions of the stimulus package. In less that three months, Obama has added ten trillion dollars over a period of ten years to the already enormous national indebtedness. No problem to Obama’s support, who live on a wing and prayer.

In view of the American people’s penchant pointing fingers, and for spending for things they can’t afford, it comes as no surprise to me, but I wonder what future generations are going to do about paying this astronomical debt politicians and hopeful Americans have brought on us. History gives us an answer in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.

Obama helps  along the idea of America becoming a totalitarian dictatorship. Islamic extremists with religious conviction that they were doing Allah’s bidding used American airliners to bomb the World Trade Center and Pentagon, doing hundreds of billions of dollars in damage, killing more than 3,000 innocent people, and setting the American economy back—all of this shortly after Bush was elected President. Bush and his advisors were concerned that more Islamic attacks were planned. That was surely a logical conclusion. They had in custody Islamic extremists who were directly involved in the 9-11 event. The discussion was how to get them to talk. Bush and his advisors had legal advice, and congressional approval, when they decided to “torture” these villains, not by physically harming them, but by making life very uncomfortable for them.

With the 9-11 event fading from memory, now many Americans, and some Members of Congress, think it was immoral to force people directly involved in the 9-11 attack to reveal information about what those terrorists were planning. For a fact, not one attack has taken place in America since, but there are those who insist that Bush's “torture” did not reveal anything that would not have been revealed by politely asking for the information. You can believe what you want about that, but Obama has released information about what Bush did to those terrorists and has not released the positive results. Moreover, Obama has now asked his Attorney General to investigate the charges made by some Members of Congress that the Bush Administration was immoral and unconstitutional in “torturing” those unfortunate people. The possibly of prosecuting Bush Administration officials—putting them in jail—is now before us. And at the same time that Obama threatens prosecution of his predecessor, he is going about the world apologizing for what America did before he became president. Turning on the charm, not only in Europe, he bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, Obama is making peace gestures to America’s sworn enemies.

We talk a lot about love. I don’t think Obama shows us that he does to others as he would others do unto Obama. America was once a nation of laws. America is now a nation of men with a vast amount of power.  So what happens now?

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

What happens now is stepping into uncharted territory.
Never before has America had a Black President -this will
lead to changes as it will open a lot more doors towards making
peace with other nations.
Hopefully that will lead us onto a previously un-trodden path and
continue to change the course of History.

I too am concerned about the amount of borrowing, as we are
doing that in our Country also.
In fact, both our Countries are “selling” ourselves to China-
who are loaning the money/buying Government bonds.
No offense to them -but where does that leave us -??

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Chimera, and Chistralia… fortunately in my country… we got out of debt… so there is little chance of Chinada.

If we really want to talk about lasting world peace… nations wouldn't be selling their future for money… we'd be uniting our people for peace… 

If given the chance, Obama will bring a renewed sense of peace and unity… he is quite simply… human.  The problem is that others who only want peace on their own terms, will build up their anxieties, and when Obama's term ends… the world will explode in pent up anger… the fearful will blame Obama… for selling out in the name of humanity.

In the future … as I watch the mushroom clouds of nuclear warfare… knowing that my death is but seconds away…I for one, will not get any satisfaction using my last breaths to say…”It was Obama's fault… I was right all along.”

Although it does sum up the sad world view of modern humanity…. the satisfaction of saying … “I was right”, just before dying, appears to be of much greater importance than living.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

I woke up this morning thinking about Walked Out, singer Robert Allen’s song I liked. It starts with, “When you told me last night you didn’t need me.” It ends with, “That’s why I walked away. I was out of our lives.” I turned the song onto my own life. My ex-wife told me she didn’t need me, in a great many ways. I walked away, a long, long way from my past life. I told myself I didn’t need the life I was living anymore.  If my life could be any better now, I don't know how.

Like a “flower child,” I departed the establishment, only I went on my own. I became self-reliant. The flower children of the 1960s, America’s dropouts, formed groups of young people who hated American ideals. Some sewed the American flag on the seat of their pants.  Their love was really hate America. The group ideals of America’s former vagabonds, America's love children, freed of America’s morals and principles, living in communes on public land—known as “hippies”—is now the in vogue way to be in America: society is responsible for the individual’s needs.

With the view of society being responsible for everyone's needs, President Obama is building a strawman of America’s past. Now President Obama is proceding to turn America’s past policy of “torturing” Islamic extremists imprisoned, who were known to be directly involved in turning American airliners into bombs, into a bomb against his predecessor, President Bush.

Islamic terrorists killed over 3,000 innocent people and destroyed hundreds of billions of dollars in property in America, all on the supposed command of their god, Allah. How short our memories are! President Obama, as a message for future servants of Allah, has released the details of his predecessor’s “torture.” Are you for this?

President Bush had legal advice. He had the overwhelming approval of Congress and the American people to do whatever he felt necessary to find out what said international terrorists planned to do next. And he found out by “torturing” them, and by tapping wires, for one thing that they planned the taking down of Los Angelos' tallest building.  President Obama, who goes by his political idea of the law, has put an end to everything the Bush Administration did to prevent another 9-11 type attack.

President Obama has not seen fit to report the results of the “torture.” He apparently does not believe the results were positive. Oh, and by the way, President Obama’s idea of torture is part of America’s training for military personnel. President Obama does not object to that. Said “torture” does not consist of breaking bones, cutting off limbs, or gouging out eyes, the normal idea of torture.

Are you aware that President Obama has now authorized his attorney general to investigate what the extreme left in America says was immoral and unconstitutional torture on the part of the Bush Administration?  One can wonder what the extreme right will do to the Obama Admistration when Obama’s term of office is over. It causes one to wonder if Predident Obama intends for his term of office to end.

President Obama wants everyone to know he is not going to punish America’s military’s for their use of “torture,” but he indicates he could act against the perpetrators, the Bush Administration.  Nothing could be too bad for the hated Bush Aministration.  As a friendly gesture to the rest of the world, Bush officials may be indicted for criminal conduct, which would end with a discovery process that would go on for years. Nothing President Obama could do would be more damaging to the way the world looks at America, which appears to be what President Obama wants.  President Obama is backed by America’s former “flower children,” who hate America’s former principles and standards of behavior.

I want you to know you are wrong. It is totally irrelevant that President Obama is black. It is not irrelevant that President Obama was born of a white mother and raised by his white grandparents. In his autobiography, President Obama says that in his youth he had a problem with self-identification. That’s relevant. He identified with the politicians in South Chicago, with the long-standing reputation for being the most corrupt in America. That’s relevant.

Obviously, President Obama does not consider that America is at war with international terrorists. It is a matter of the law, he says. What a joke! The law in America has been politicized. Since President Obama is going about the world apologizing for America’s past, we can assume he believes his predecessor was politically lawless. He bows to the King in Saudi Arabia, He’s casting olive branches to the world’s oppressors, including south of the border banana republics.

The politicizing of the law in America has been ongoing since Roosevelt’s “New Deal” law. President Obama has just announced that America is going to start taking political prisoners who commit immoral and unconstitutional acts. What effect will that have on people who disagree with President Obama?

America has seen better times. The hippie movement of the 1960s is now the vogue in America.  I can only speak for myself, while I still can. When I went on my own, things got better for me.  Which is better, hippie type love—everyone contributing and sharing equally in a loving relationship, or self-reliance?  Hippie type love has never worked before, but I guess, like you say, there is always hope that we can live like the birds and bees.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

I so hope you are wrong about those mushroom clouds Dave ,
but sadly you are right over the importance of being right!!

I have read a lot of those facts inlink ~ but I think you are looking
at the worst case scenario's ?
It is all in the eyes of the believer, you come across as being
pro-Bush~anti Obama -and as such you will look for his
faults -just as many of us saw those in Bush !

It will always happen that way -and we are very good in hindsight.
But for now, all we can say is give peace a chance- give Obama a chance-
because, in reality -there really is no alternative.
What would you do -if YOU were in power -what changes would you make?

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

It is very good of you, Sandy, to ask me what changes I would make. First, let me say I'm no Bush fan. He was right about what he did to protect America from terrorist attacks. He was dead wrong about doubling the national debt. With no change in Bush’s policy, America is now under the divine guidance of Her Highness, Nancy Pelosi, Sir Harry Reid, and His Majesty, Barrack Obama, who are quadrupling the national debt. By giving America’s royalty a chance, you are not willing to give America’s children any chance at all.

If I were President of the United States, the first thing I would do would be to do away with Federal Income Tax and the Internal Revenue Service. That would save taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars in implementation alone. America’s tax code is so big it would take a truck to haul it. It is jamb packed with ambiguities. With creative accounting and a sharp tax lawyer, the rich can pay less tax than the average taxpayer pays. Royalty is responsible for this miscarriage of justice. If the IRS makes a mistake, it stands, unless you’ve got the money to take the IRS to court. You are looking at a half million dollars in legal costs. If you tried, Sandy, it would be hard to make America’s tax code more unfair than it is. Royalty has been working on the tax code for years and years. It gets more unfair every year.

America’s royalty and supporters depend on Federal Income Tax and the IRS. Do you realize that you want to give America’s royalty a chance to continue with their colossal tax rip-off? You would be against the Fair Tax, a sales tax that has been proposed by the opposition, which I support.

A few years back, economist A. Gary Shilling went to the Department of Commerce and procured information that would show you that 54 percent of the American people depended on the Federal Government for “a significant part of their incomes.” That was several years ago. Government has been growing by leaps and bounds.

From the fact that the American people were led to believe that health care was a fundamental right, in disregard of the law of supply and demand—giving medical practitioners the freedom to raise their prices—at the present time in America the middle-class taxpayer is paying for better health care for the poor than they themselves can afford. His Majesty is going to fix that problem by giving everyone good health care. This fix has yet to be added to the national debt. And something has to be done to keep the system now in place from going bankrupt. It is out of money and the taxes are not enough. In America, people go about shooting each other for the sport of it. If they were deprived of their guns, they would use knives and clubs. The cost of hospital care for someone who gets shot is $50,000, paid for by workers who have to go to the hospital. An illegitimate pre-mature baby can cost the American public a million dollars. In order for you to give His Majesty a chance, you would be in support of the right to good health care for everyone. Don’t you know that is impossible? It will be older American citizens, the one’s who need most of the health care, who will do without good health care. Why should His Majesty be selected to make that choice?

What if we all had the right to life’s necessities? What do you think the price of home would be? Like health care, it would cost three times as much as it should, unless you went socialistic. Then there would be three families living in one home. Why is health care anymore of a right than a home? As a matter of fact, America’s economic bust came about as the result of America’s royalty wanting to put everyone in a home, we now know by hook and crook, whether or not they could afford a home. What makes a Republican any better than a Democrat. It started with Bush. The head of the government mortgage operation just committed suicide. Wonder what he knew? I wonder what all of those frauds in control know. Why would anyone think that America’s control is any different than any other control in the world? After all, we are all human beings. Do you want to give Obama a chance to take every right we have?

Before the right to health care in America, the cost was a third as much. Rather than those needing hospital care paying for those who couldn’t afford it, the poor went to the taxpayer supported county hospital. The wise don’t buy a home until they can afford it. By giving those who could not afford a home a home, the price of a home went out of sight. You can’t have a free market economy and at the same time the right to health care, or a right to anything else. In order to give the right of health care or the right of a home, you have to give away all of your individual rights and responsibilities, and depend on government. That’s what you support by giving His Majesty a chance. Please tell me how I’m wrong.

The government entitled in America receive cost of living increases. Workers depend on their paychecks. I owned property during a period of double digit inflation that doubled in price, but the dollar would buy half as much. Thanks to inflation, my business enterprise went on the rocks. I was forced to sell my property to pay my living costs. My profit on the property was zero but I had to pay a whopping capital gains in a tax year when I had zero income. His Royal Majesty supports the capital gains tax. You would be in favor of that. Were I President, I would faze out government entitlements and depend on a free market economy. The Fair Tax I support has no tax on income and no capital gains tax. It taxes spending.

Progressives, in love with the idea of love, want everyone to share and share alike. They don’t understand that it is not in the human being’s nature. They don’t understand that human beings are created to deal with their circumstances; created to be self-governing. Progressives always end with an oppressive government.

Beginning with antiquity’s myths and superstitions, mankind has traveled a path of discovery, but the average person is afraid of change. They continue to ask the meaning of life, but live routinely from day to day, dealing with their day to day problems, and never thinking another thing. They do what authority tells them to do without question. The average individual is afraid to take a step into the unknown.

I don’t know how I could make it any clearer. We are entering a new age, and a new age individual. A groundswell is building that is going to break and sweep the world. Those afraid to cross the threshold are going to be left up a creek without a paddle.

Now, Sandy, I don’t give Obama the chance of a snowball in hell. Is it not fair to ask you to give me a reasonable, logical way—not some pie in the sky, manna from heaven, love your neighbor baloney—of paying the debt America’s royalty has placed against America’s children? Please let me hear how you would solve the problem. I don’t know of any way other than to get rid of America’s royalty and return to the American way.

　

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Most basic to love is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you could go to the bank and borrow the money needed to keep you supplied with the good things in life, and personally obligate your child to pay your debt, I'm curious to know how you would rationalize that.

When you support President Obama in his act of borrowing against future taxpayers an amount of money so enormous it is impossible to imagine, in order to undo the mistakes of the Bush Administration, how do you rationalize that you are adhering to the most basic tenant of love? It appears to me that you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I hear that the average American family owes on credit cards $10,000, and are paying up to 25 percent interest on that debt. Knowing the American penchant for going deeply into debt, I'm receiving daily mail from credit card companies offering to loan me money at low or even zero interest rates for a short time.
President Obama wants legislation passed to stop credit card companies from charging such high rates of interest. He is presently taking ownership of America's largest banks, and at the same time, whether they want it or not, stuffing them with printing press money, the object being to loan it, and he owns the banks. While he himself plunges the nation into an unprecedented debt, President Obama is doing all he can to encourage the American people to go deeper into debt.


I'd like to hear from Obama's support why it thinks Obama's plans are good. What happens when you borrow more money than you can possibly ever pay back? I'm curious as to why you Obama supporters want us to give Obama's plan a chance to work. Have you ever thought that it is working to take away all of your rights and privileges, to make you—and your children—totally dependent on government? Is this what you really want? If you care to, I’d like to hear from you why you think dependence on government is better than self-reliance.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Very interesting posts inlink -but the first,I would have to break down
into parts to respond to -being so long.
You know you can start new threads, don't you -it might pay to specify
the different topics -as I know some members prefer shorter posts?

To start with though, on finance , I find this very interesting -but also
want you to know that it is the same here in Australia- and no doubt in
many Countries, World-Wide.
We are all on a crazy downhill spiral -due to over-extended lending
and credit card debt.
The Banks have the monopoly and are as heartless, greedy and ruthless
as they ever were!

Like you -I am very interested to read comments from American members
on this situation -and of course to hear the other-side of the
“shoe boot”, as it were!

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

So what happens now?

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Let me help you with your answer of what happens now. China's economy is now second only to the Unites States. While the U. S. economy is on the wain, China's economy has been the world's fastest growing for the past 25 years. With a per capita growth rate of 8 percent over the past 30 years, China's poverty has been drastically reduced.  Twenty  percent of the world's population lives within China's borders.  China's government has changed frome a Soviet-type centrally planned economy to a private sector global economy, with only a third of it state controlled.  Guess who has been borrowing from China to stay afloat?  If His Majesty, Barrack Obama spends America into bankruptcy, China will be America's receiver, in which case, where will Astralia be?

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

His Majesty Bush, His Majesty Clinton, Citibank, GM, Chrysler, Bank of America, AIG, …

We ain't talking about just his majesty Obama… the new king of spending… it has been going on for decades…. driven by government spending on the military and low taxes for the rich during Republican times, and growing government during Democrat times…

America is addicted to money… and China is the drug supplier…

Inlink.. the only issue I take with everything you've said… for your analysis is very clear and very good… is that for some reason… you put the entire blame on Obama…. when the blame is on of America who have been addicted to credit, spending and consumerism….. 

And it didn't start with China… it started with Japan after world war II.

My prediction… once America realizes it is behind the economic eight ball and can't recover…. you'll see the most militaristic, aggressive nation in the history of mankind.. believing that a good world war will negate any debt they ever had… in the name of freedom and democracy.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Since it was Obama and what happens next,  I took that to mean what happens under the Obama Adminstration.    The majority of America's voters put Obama in office; the majority  supports Obama; the majority are responsible for Obama.  What happens next depends on the voters.  I've been speaking to the people who support Obama—trying to make Obama's support aware.  Common sense says his plan will not work.  Obama is making tax slaves out of America's children.

The majority of the American people live in a hothouse, expecting government to pull levers and twist valves.  They don't want to think that it is their energy. They prefer to think big government can fix their personal problems.  Politicians are there to accomodate that kind of thinking.

When I hit rock bottom, I realized that I was the only one who could fix my problem.  I didn't blame my problem on others. I didn't pray to God. I didn't look to government. I didn't think beautiful thoughts and hope for a magical cure.  
I predict that in the future what happened to me will happen in the world. 

Christians call it the second coming of Christ.  I'm not a Christian, but I experienced a rebirth once I departed my wealth-oriented fixations. It didn't matter what others thought.  I have a lot less to show materially,  but a lot more inner peace. I count my blessings every day. I have everything I need. 

 Obama is not about making people more independent.  He's America's Daddy Warbucks.  Obama is rolling in money!  Is it not right that Obama has trillions of dollars to spend fixing every problem we have?  Those who look externally for help don't know the power that lies within.  But that's another subject. 

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

We  both agree entirely with the American psyche, as well as the roots of what America values… which are money and power, and not the values of the Constitution.  

In fact, the reason patriotism is so deeply ingrained, is that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights protect their right to be acquire wealth and wield power.

Perhaps our only difference is that I look at the US from the outside… and just see America for what it is… and thus see Obama and Bush and Clinton as nothing more than the elected leaders … who may act differently… but they represent exactly the same things.

It is too bad that Americans, as you say, could collectively see the errors of their ways… and push for major change of American's values… by acting that way as individuals, rather than hiding behind the leaders, and judging others…

D

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Hmmmmmm … the illusion of our economic reality is really thick.  All of the nation-states are so integrated in this mess, its hard to say – the chicken or the egg.  This specific economic downturn in America (and hence the world) has been in the making for over 20 years – Go back to the Bush I administration – the beginning of the EU, the consolidation that's being worked on in the African Union, etc.

The dollar must collapse.  China holds more US$ than anyone on planet earth, they hold as much as is in active circulation in the United States – and the United States has been pressing currency at rates that literally go off the scale.  The collapse of the dollar is completely necessary to effect the changes that are desired –

1.  to get oil and other commodities off the US dollar standard.

2.  to create an American Union which, theoretically, would become the strongest economic/political union in the world.  I don't buy the last bit, but when the plan was publically disclosed that's the reason for its creation and why America just has to be a part of it (blah, blah, blah!).

3.  to create a larger geo-political-economic structure to handle the world's population and resource allocation.  The world has too many people and the current structure is simply not equipped to handle the earth's production and its needs.

so … military – perhaps.  or we can choose to get out from behind our computers and do things that enlarge our structure to support a truly humanist environment of equality and justice – all the structures, from the simple city government to teh state level, to the nation-state level to the G8, EU, American Union levels need to be integrated with the voice of the individual.

peace & harmoy,
elaine
'freedom must be exercised to stay in shape!'

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Well, this conversation is certainly starting to heat up -
thanks to you all, Dave, inlink and business voodoo!

I certainly hope it doesn;t come to Military action-
I do know Obama did not start this borrowing -
and yes, we can get out from behind our computers-
but still very difficult to intergrate the voice of the individual.

So , as things reach a desperate state -the need would be of
desperate measures.
And great, great change.
In the first instance- people have to stop wanting and stop spending
on anything other than necessities.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

In the first instance- people have to stop wanting and stop spending
on anything other than necessities.

Oh what a sacrifice you ask!  I was educated to believe success was a fine home, the latest model car, being a member of a country club.  I had all of this.  I worked hard and suffered from stress. At age 63, my doctor told me I was a candidate for open-heart surgery.  

What I used to think essential to my life has changed with age. I didn't have open-heart surgery.  I'm now 83 and my heart is just fine.  My home is nothing elaborate, but all I want.  My car is 6 years old and runs like new. Why would I want a new car?  I don't belong to a country club.  I've got my computer and Gaia.  I get entertainment on my TV set.  I enjoy cooking. We seldom eat out.  I've got my guitar and keyboard.  I like gardening.  There's never a dull moment.  I do what I want when I want.  On a fraction of the money, these are the best years of my life. 

I had to learn in the school of hard knocks that it isn't the material things that brings happiness.  I had to look within for the right answer for me. Maybe what's next, thanks to Obama's nonsensical answers, is people coming to the conclusion that we don't need big government. We can do better on our own.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

To reiterate what I’ve been trying to tell my Gaia friends, when I say we can do better on our own, Sandy, when hope is coupled with renewing one’s self—tossing aside the dumbing down one gets from the status quo establishment—that is, when one purges one’s mind of the defeating inclination to rely on establishment authoritarians, whether they be religious, government, or scientific, those who require obedience to their answers, when one has his or her calling—looks within for a bigger than life answer—strange things happen. On my own, I set out on a journey into the unknown. According to my establishment education, everything should have gone wrong for me. Everything went right. It wasn’t the luck of the Irish. It was a prepared mind. I came to know myself and the power that lies within.

I don’t tell people they should do this or that. I tell them to look within for their answers. Has Obama done that. No. He is asking everyone to follow the Pied Piper. You might ask me what if everyone looked within for their answers. Wouldn’t that be anarchy? Look in Webster’s College Dictionary. There is a form of anarchy that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperation and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society. How do you know it wouldn’t work? Has it been tried?

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

inlink… I think the state of Texas would claim to be exactly what you describe.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

mmmm, yes  Dave anarchy !

I am glad that taking positive steps has worked out for both you and
inlink.
Proof that life can be lived in alternate ways to the way we are
“supposed” to live life.
That goals and dreams can work -if only one is not too afraid to take
the first step -and that living the “simple life” can be most pleasurable.

Can it be that is the cloud in silver lining of this economic downturn?
Is it the path we must tread, in order for great change to happen?

S

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Speaking of Anarchy…

My favorite author, Heinlein, oft mentioned something he called “responsible anarchy.”  He called it the ultimate government, because rather than a method of control for others, it was a form of self control based on personal ethics and morals.  No government but self-government in a sense.

This comes from the Tao te Ching room in Living Metaphysics and I thought I'd share this here:

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

If you want to be a great leader, you must learn to follow the Tao.


The Tao, the way—formless nature—embraces harmony, love, and learning the way nature works.

The same as personal gods are constructs, legal is a construct. I read in Black’s Law Dictionary that in order to be called the law, it must be sanctioned, or at least not forbidden. Legal is merely the form and usage of the law. It’s a construct. You can’t have lawful fraud. You can have legal fraud. That which is legal, the same as personal gods, can bring all manner of harm on societies.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Dear Sandy,

It is good that we are connected in a positive direction. We all want peace and prosperity. And the way is Tao.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Hey Dave!

My wife, Karen, a mellow Oregonian, says you can take the man out of Texas but you can’t take Texas out of the man. We Texans remember the Alamo.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

This thread is full -so we shall have to move onto Part 3 !!

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

President Obama was , ostensibly, not for it, but his colleagues pushed him into accepting an investigation into the Bush Administration's “torture.” We won't know if this is merely a tricky leftist maneuver, but common sense says it will be great for America's enemies to spend an extended amount of time trying to prove the Bush Administration was brutal, against common decency, and unconstitutional.

There is a lot America could do, or not do, to help extremist Islam accomplish its goals. Peace at any price has never worked for peace-loving people. Instead of “New President - What Happens Now?,” I suggest that you name the new thread “The End of our World - What Happens Next?”

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

gee ,I don't know inlink -I reckon that could be a bad omen!
“The End of our World -What Happens Next” is a bit harsh -don't
you think?
Do you have any other suggestions -do you really think we need
to change the name of the thread?

This topic had generated a lot of interest and there is the sentimental
factor, in that our departed (only from Gaia) member started it.

You have carried it on well and I really would like you to start the new
thread- so having said that- I guess I will leave it up to you!!

You said peace at any price has never worked for peace loving people-
but personally, I do not think the price is too high -nor do I think it
has been paid- up to this point.

S

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Politics for Change-
Obama's first 100 days and other articles and Political Opinion Links
http://www.care2.com/causes/politics/

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

 100-Day Agenda for Nuclear Disarmament: President Obama Scores High
by David Krieger

At the end of 2008, following President Obama’s election but prior to his inauguration, the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation put forward “A Nuclear Disarmament Agenda for President Obama,” focusing on his first 100 days in office. During his campaign for the presidency, candidate Obama had spoken about a nuclear weapons-free world being in the interests of America and the world. The Foundation put forward the 100-Day Agenda to encourage President Obama to keep the issue of nuclear disarmament high on his agenda. The Foundation urged the president to act boldly and take a number of steps during his first hundred days in office. The steps that were proposed were divided into three categories: public commitment, bilateral engagement and global action. 
President Obama has, in fact, acted quickly and boldly on a nuclear disarmament agenda. He assumed office on January 20, 2009 and almost immediately posted on the www.whitehouse.gov website a series of steps that he and Vice President Biden intended to take on nuclear policy issues.
To read more, visit: http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2009/04/16_krieger_100_day.php.

Re: New President- What Happens Now (Part II)

Hey Inlink… yes.. A Texan is a Texan… before all else. As a general question,  I wonder why people choose to identify themselves based on an imaginary line called a border?

Anyway… I oft have believed… we are what we choose to remember… so I try very hard to forget.