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Make Sense, Make Believe

Etceterist said Jun 29, 2006, 9:10 PM:

Here I find the resonance that makes humanity human. We can do these two things. It is possible that some animals can do one (rats solve novel problems, birds write novel harmonies). We are the first successful differentiation and subsequent integration of the neural cluster such that we can now do both (to use K Wilber's phrasing).

Not only can we make sense and make believe, but we can make sense of what we make believe and make believe something that makes sense. Herein lies our power, and like all sources of power, herein lies the danger. When the human mind gets randomized, the effects are only rarely cute enough to make a movie of the week about.

My question here is this: what is being made, and is the medium the same in both making sense and making believe?

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Re: Make Sense, Make Believe

Diane [no longer around] said Jun 30, 2006, 6:54 AM:

Not only can we make sense and make believe, but we can make sense of what we make believe and make believe something that makes sense.

I'm not sure I understand your question, but here's what comes to mind when I read this. Humans are great rationalizers (rationalists?). When we make sense of what we believe, we are rationalizing, most of the time (unless what we believe is

Maybe I'm totally misunderstanding where you're coming from, but this is what it said to me.

Re: Make Sense, Make Believe

Etceterist said Jun 30, 2006, 7:47 AM:

Much of what I'm attempting here is based on the word play. As a boy, I used to make believe all the time; make believe I was a superhero, make believe I was an adventurer, and so on. It sort of breaks down in the context of looking at the verb 'to make' because the proper syntax as a kid was 'to play make believe' and the expression should maybe be hyphenated.

To make sense of what we make believe allows the willing suspension of disbelief, which is essential for the social function of story-telling. To make believe something makes sense describes Einstein's thought experiments that allowed him to discover the theory of relativity. This connection of something tangible and currently manifest with something intangible and abstract is the power behind human consciousness.

That said, I don't know if I've lowered your confusion or merely set it off in a different direction!

Re: Make Sense, Make Believe

Diane [no longer around] said Jun 30, 2006, 8:26 AM:

Well, for some reason, my reply was truncated and makes no sense. What I said that didn't make it in, was that humans can rationalize exploitation and even torture in such a way that they feel it is “for the good.”

Having said that, I will say that both our views here do mesh (or am I just rationalizing?!).

What you describe, the suspension of disbelief, essential for new thinking and discovery, is the way humans use this in a positive way. The other side of the coin is what I describe!

Re: Make Sense, Make Believe

Etceterist said Jun 30, 2006, 8:55 AM:

The horrors people can perpetrate on one another have more to do with making believe than making sense, I think. We can believe another group is evil, and that allows us to do something evil to them, since they're evil anyway. This, of course, gives them permission to commit evil back upon us. This attitude may have been useful when most of us were starving and cold and other people had more (this doesn't make it right or good; merely useful) and I do believe we can overcome it.

Mind you, I might be rationalizing here, sheerly out of a need to carry on into the future amid a bunch of clever primates capable of atrocity.

Re: Make Sense, Make Believe

jaBuddha said Jul 22, 2006, 12:20 PM:

I was thinking along the lines of something “making sense”, as perhaps we say in bridge - making “book”, or like “making light speed” - it is the elevation of a thought to the level that it can be taken in through the senses - “makes sense”. Makes sense?

Re: Make Sense, Make Believe

Etceterist said Jul 22, 2006, 12:31 PM:

Ahh, yes, yes! I was stuck on 'making a bed' (which is very important every day (unless you're allergic to dust mites) so your subconscious knows it has somewhere to sleep tonight).

This may be the difference. One makes sense like one makes book and one makes believe as one makes a trick.

Re: Make Sense, Make Believe

jaBuddha said Jul 22, 2006, 11:01 PM:

Tricky! Four Diamonds.

Re: Make Sense, Make Believe

Etceterist said Jul 25, 2006, 10:19 AM:

When I learned how to play bridge, I did so with my (then) best friend. We never learned the conventions, so we are basically (to mix my card metaphors) euchred when it comes to playing with anyone else.

So, Five nudge-wink.

Re: Make Sense, Make Believe

jaBuddha said Aug 8, 2006, 9:16 PM:

True - new “languaging” is needed.