Honesty in Relationships.....

Where do You draw the line??? Hmmmm?

Re: Honesty in Relationships.....

Even if you are a master communicator, flexibility and in-the-moment assessment of what your partner is ‘doing’ at a meta-level is required for successful relationships. ‘Doing’ examples could be: unloading their day, joking/playful, exploring out loud, requesting your opinion for their own thinking, co-designing, or giving you an assessment (and there are others). They way you listen in each is different.

The partner that is locked into one mode of listening is boring and inflexible, regardless of how successful that mode has been in situations. Imagine someone who is always serious, always taking every comment you make as a serious relationship issue! Eeeeach! Likewise, someone who always ‘shoots the breeze’ and never can get to committed co-design isn’t going to be very fun after a while. So we all want to be able to switch modes. Yet, if both partners aren’t aware and in agreement about what mode each is in, chaos ensues. We’ve all experienced it.

That flexibility and practiced linguistic dance is what allows different kinds of honesty in a relationship. There are times when you just want to rattle off whatever thoughts are coming into your mind (esp. when unloading your day). If you partner understands that you are in that mode, then the fleeting moments of expressing anger, frustration, etc. aren’t going to have them reacting in ways that unbalance the rest of the day (e.g., walking on eggshells, questioning if you are ‘angry’ in life, etc.). Indeed, what level of honesty is allowed in your relationship? Are you in a place where you are restricted in some expression or other because it would rift things?

This is where meta-language (language about language, speech acts, structure of emotion, structure of trust, ontology) really comes in handy. If you can concisely speak about what you are doing in language (or what you are attempting to do) so both partners can understand what’s going on - as well as actually speak the content - then you’ve got a really big dance floor for communications and daily honesty.

If you leave any of that to ‘mind reading’ or hoping your partner can just guess what mode you are in, well… you’re going to be wrong fairly often (because you are also in different modes of perception and emotion over time, so the same conversation would be interpreted differently in your mind and body on different days as well).

I know I didn’t answer the specific question asked at the top of the thread, but this is what came up for me when considering the question. I think it applies: I ‘draw the line’ differently and in moment depending on the modes my partner & I are in.

Re: Honesty in Relationships.....

Hmmmm this appears to be very complicated, and I imagine a concept that most would not be able to grasp let alone actually put into daily practice. How is this done?

Re: Honesty in Relationships.....

Hey Bruce -

Whew, I could write pages and pages of stuff on what I’ve learned and experienced over the last 15 years - which were years committed to learning how to do relationships well after the repeated self-destruction of several crucial relationships in my life. I’m still committed to learning about relationships and communication, and growing my skills there.

So, before I wonder off on some diatribe that may not even match your question (which I can tend to do), let me make sure I understand the question!

Are you asking, “How does one draw the lines of honesty differently in the moment depending on the states of each partner?”

or, “How does one learn and use meta-language in relationships?”

or, “How do you listen differently based on your partner’s state?”

Or, is there a different question that would lead us further into a great discussion?

:)

Thanks!

Re: Honesty in Relationships.....

Ha, oK give ma taste of each of your points…. then I should get a better grasp of the scenarios, then I will throw in my $.25 worth……

Re: Honesty in Relationships.....

Well, your original question was “where do you draw the line in relationships?”

Does that mean that if someone is being disohonest where do you draw the line? personally I listen, try to figure out what they are hiding, if they are hiding it to protect you from something, maybe something they did but think it will hurt you too much, or their opinion on something.

Maybe they are lying to distort the truth, to make themselves look better or worse, or to make another person seem better or worse. 

Personally if a person lies to me to protect me from what their opinion is because they think it will hurt is not as serious, but I work on making it clear to those people that I accept what their opinion is, whether it hurts me or not.  I try to make it clear that honesty is better because sooner or later I will find out what their opinion is on that topic, one way or another.  If a person repeatedly does this even though they know how I feel about it, then their is obviously a communication problem, and I would not likely continue to pursue that relationship.

If a person lies to me because they did something that hurt me and dont want me to find out, that is a crossed line, and I would make it clear to that person that they are not as trusted because they hurt me, and they lied to me, and if that person does it again, then they have proven that they can't be trusted and are not welcome. 

If a person lies to protect someone else it is almost like being betrayed, why would they protect the other person over me, if we are in a serious relationship, why would I want a person that feels no loyalty to me around me, and I make that clear in talking to those people.  If it happens again, they have proven that they can not be trusted and are not welcome.


I think I answered your question, but if not, I'll be back to read

Re: Honesty in Relationships.....

That’s a good take, Brett. I didn’t even think about it in terms of where do I draw the line when I suspect or find out someone is lying to me. I’m lucky to be in a really honest primary relationship now, and so the connection with viewpoints and reasons for lying are getting farther and farther away from my consciousness.

One problem I think crops up with Radical Honesty (and it’s true it’s been more than a decade since I read the book, so I could be misremembering) is that the attitude tends to be, “I’m going to tell you the truth no matter how much it hurts either of us. Period.” This based on the fact that, no matter how painful the truth is, lies are always going to be more painful (and the pain will last over a much longer time with much more difficulty in healing) - and I’m in strong agreement there. But the simple stance misses the distinction of speaking into someone’s listening, paying attention to how much is too much and how much is not enough for them, and really staying connected to the person in the telling. It isn’t about gritting your teeth through the pain, it’s about taking care of the other person through the pain, if that makes sense.

Bruce - I’m not dodging your reply, but I hesitate to dive into all four avenues… to cover each one well would take longer posts. I’d rather do conversational style, with us conversing on a topic at a time; something that engages you. (I’m guessing you are keeping your answers short and sweet because you have a lot of pods/blogs to post! And you want to encourage folks to get conversing on the pod. But I invite you to dive in and add some more meat to the discussion, if you feel!)

So, I’ll pick the “How do you listen differently based on your partner’s state?” question, because it relates to my response above. I’ll use an example that isn’t too charged to start.

Let’s say my partner comes home and she says that she hates her job and can’t stand to go to work tomorrow. Is she telling me the ‘truth’? How do I react to this ‘truth’? Should that kick me into rapid and major action & planning to get her out of that job, to plan for her to quit or be fired, and to start helping her find new work?

Is she lying? Is that she really doesn’t mean what she says? To what degree does she mean it? What is the ‘degree of truth’ to her expression?

Well, if she just fininshed a 12-hour day that held several snafu’s and mix-ups, etc., she missed dinner (low blood sugar), is very tired, and has a pile of things on her desk to do, I know that her speaking is an expression of her emotion in the moment. It’s honestly what she’s feeling, but it isn’t a design of action. She’ll wake up tomorrow morning refreshed and in a much different mood. At least, I’ll be mindful to notice if she does.

If instead, for example, she and I are sitting down in a co-design session and mapping out our goals for next year and she says she hates her job and can’t stand to go back tomorrow, I’m going to hear it very differently. This is the time I’ll ask for specifics about how she would be satisfied, and what specifically is causing problems. And then we look to designing action and solutions to shift things, both immediately and long-term. In that space I’d take very seriously the possibility that she’s going to need another job soon and our income could be interrupted in the meantime. Waay different meaning.

So the two modes, “dump my day” and “life co-design” are very different states, and I listen to ‘truth’ very differently in either. I am also able to ‘speak truth’ differently in either. It isn’t difficult to do; although it does require that one be present, in the moment, a good observer of your own body and emotions, and a good observer of other’s bodies and emotions. All good things to practice, especially when important things are on the line. Like a great life.

What do you see there?

Re: Honesty in Relationships.....

My husband is learning the many modes I have, however the mode my husband is in most of the time is where things go in one ear and out the other.

Re: Honesty in Relationships.....

truth vs honesty

it is possible to be honest and not be truthful

yet one cannot be truthful without being honest

honesty is a position, truthfulness is a simple speaking of what is

if a relationship becomes about honesty, then its converse, dishonesty, is invited to the table

if a relationship is about truth, there is nothing converse to bring to the table

then, regardless of how comfortable or not for the system, the truth gets told and life goes on

honesty can be manipulative and coercive

the truth is always loving, although not always easy to hear