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The Four Agreements ... and beyond

GypsyLadee said Aug 27, 2006, 8:07 AM:

Don Miguel Ruiz made popular these four “agreements” we can make which lead to Freedom:

Make No Assumptions
Take Nothing Personally
Do Your Best
Be Impeccable With Your Word

By making any one of these agreements a focus of daily living, our lives change dramatically and can lead to a state of personal freedom.

Beyond these four agreements, Toltec wisdom teaches us that the world is our mirror, the elimination of belief systems (including that which Toltec itself might instill) is our goal, and that we must be freedom before we can know freedom.

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Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

HeyOK said Aug 28, 2006, 12:33 AM:

Nuances and Nuances to incorporating these in life AND then allowing others to incorporate them as they see fit. My lives definitely better for trying though and it's getting easier and easier to disengage when I need too or realize I've been hooked.

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

GypsyLadee said Aug 29, 2006, 10:04 AM:

And how do you gauge whether or not you're being an impeccable warrior? Do you see yourself as a warrior?

Warmly,
Ladee

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

HeyOK said Aug 29, 2006, 10:45 PM:

Great questions… Hmmm — intent, intuition (as in my little inner voice says “now that's not the choice you wanted to make why did you choose that?”), the input from others I get…

2nd “?”… I do! And then I don't. And then I do again. And then I laugh. And then I do! Make sense?

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

GypsyLadee said Aug 31, 2006, 12:05 AM:

Almost scarily you *do* make sense … I totally get it.

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Ruthless said Nov 24, 2006, 4:10 PM:

So how do I gauge whether or not I'm being an impeccable warrior?
Here's two rules of thumb I find helpful when I'm indulging in being (or acting?) stupid:
1) If I feel like I have time, as a rule, I'm not being impeccable. The feeling of having time is idiocy. All I have to do is look around. There are no survivors on this earth.
2) I'm impeccable when I trust my personal power, however great or small it may be.
Ruthless
P.S.: Too bad nothing is as clear as we'd like it to be on the path of knowledge, huh?
Or is it? If it was all clear-cut & dried, where would the challenge be in that?

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

HeyOK said Aug 31, 2006, 12:19 PM:

Ha ha — do a backward mental somersault (which is how I once read Calos C describe “controlled folly”). It all matters AND it doesn't and it does and it doesn't AND IT REALLY DOES - except it doesn't! Tee Hee - we're on the path now.

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

GypsyLadee said Aug 31, 2006, 1:11 PM:

Yup. Paradoxes wrapped up in conundrums. Recently had some conversations about that very thing: folly … it's ALL folly, and yet that which appears to be folly may be the very thing we need to wake us up to the fact that we're living a life of folly. It's all smoke and mirrors, where the mirror is our life in reflection.

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Kira said Oct 22, 2006, 1:36 PM:

I have a question for pod members – I've been thinking about this for a while and only now am able to articulate it well enough for others to hopefully understand – I get the thing about not taking things personally – however, I'm not always clear on how to deal with people who keep zinging me with things I'm not supposed to take personally

an example: my older sister came to visit me over a year ago, and she treated me in some ways that I'm not at all comfortable with (neither in a houseguest nor in a friend) – I understand that her behavior wasn't really about me, but given that she wasn't willing to discuss what happened, I'm not inclined to put myself in the line of fire again – it feels like a boundary issue, and yet there seems to be a place where boundaries, compassion, and not taking things personally seem to get into a gray area – I'd appreciate other people's thoughts on this

peace,
Kira

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

GypsyLadee said Oct 23, 2006, 10:09 PM:

When we are challenged by the behavior of others, it's a perfect opportunity to learn new ways of coping and changing our own behaviors. Every day events are usually chock full of such opportunities … the rude clerk at the market, loved ones or family members who trade on our weaknesses (who know us better, afterall?), co-workers who take advantage. The list could go on.

This weekend I met a woman who shared a story about her relationship with her mother. The two of them are on opposite ends of everything. After one particularly grueling exchange, she had a kind of epiphany: what her mother knew, felt and shared was her own cumulative experience and what she expressed to her daughter was a kind of frustration at not being “heard.” Once she figured that out, she could listen patiently and simply accept where her mother was coming from. They've gotten along peacefully, since.

I may have said this before, and you'll probably hear it from me, again. I've come to learn that “It's all about me!” is the flip side of the coin in the agreement, Take nothing personally. When we fully comprehend that each of us is “all about me” we can grasp that what others do, think and say is all about them and what we must learn is how to adjust our own way of responding and living in this world.

What I think you'll find, by invoking this agreement, is that we then bring into focus another: Do your best.

It's an evolutionary process … a work in progress.

Enjoy the “work.” :)

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Kira said Oct 24, 2006, 4:23 AM:

I agree with what you're saying, that it's all part of learning new behaviors – I've held this perspective on life for many years, and it certainly does contribute to my evolution! I'm always asking, “What can I learn from this situation? How can I use this experience to grow?”

the thing is, sometimes the epiphanies I have about challenging relationship situations guide me to create more distance between those people and me – this sometimes happens in the context of bringing as much compassion to myself as to others, and to realizing that even when we're each doing our best we're not finding common ground

I'd appreciate hearing pod members' thoughts on times when the best resolution seems to be separating rather than getting closer – in your opinion, is this a denial of the essential state of love? or is it sometimes a necessary choice?

Re: When seperation seems best

HeyOK said Oct 25, 2006, 2:37 AM:

Hello Kira and all -

I have found seperation is the best I can do at times in life. In relationships I think many of us probably have and it doesn't always seem possible to go back to being friends and “hang out”. With family it's more difficult it seems. But I have lived through the bit of drama surrounding my choices and think I and family relationships are better for it.

In my case it wasn't a situation where I stopped connecting totally I just set limits. Particularly around holidays or holidaze as I like to call them. One year I simply chose not to join the family and then the shit hit the fan. We're all supposed to be together and happy and eat and laugh on a holiday! Unless you had a good excuse - like work or something. Now I was blamed for ruining everyones gathering because of my choice.

I held fast and held up a mirror… we aren't happy and laughing! We're stressed from travel and the season and bitch, piss and moan about whomever hasn't arrived yet. Someone's always in the bathroom crying because of something someone else said. The kids are getting screamed at because they thought they really were supposed to get together and have fun (but their version of fun is too loud for the adults). Half the time the guys all dissociate in front of the TV. Then we all hold hands and pray, or go to church and look happy. Then we eat and go home.

On the other hand I pointed out - when we gather at other times of the year everything seems much more relaxed and flowing. We laugh naturally, there is far less drama and negative energy. SOOO – I chose for several years to gather with family outside the holidaze when occasions arose. AND things have changed a bit. I've grown a bit too, of course, and family gatherings in general are much more fun for me. I have choices.

That's what worked for me… I've also been learning and relearning this lesson. I have great advice for folks when they come ask for it (usually LOL) yet I rarely took my own counsel. I'd seek an answer from someone else. Lately I've been asking myself what I would tell someone in my current situation and trying to follow the advice I would give. It works!

Blessings, David

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Bear said Oct 25, 2006, 3:38 PM:

Well, what would you tell your best friend or your child. I find we’re more honest sometimes when we ask what would I advise someone I love to do, than when we ask what could I do. as we have should’s to get rid of.
I have found that in my life there are some people I choose not to be around.
It’s not personal, just a letting go without blame,reconizing i don’t want to be a part of the story they are telling I move on.
Bear

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

GypsyLadee said Oct 30, 2006, 10:45 AM:

Separation. Attachments. Hooks in the first attention.

As a warrior one of the harder lessons is “letting go of attachments.” We've been hooked into believing that the detaching from blood relationships, especially, are unhealthy, unsociable, unacceptable. As we practice things like Recapitulation (in whatever form you've found works … personally, I'm not attached to the methods taught by CC, his party or DJ, for instance), we learn that what we've been taught since we took our first breath, is - for the most part - a hindrance to our path to Freedom.

Disconnecting, however, doesn't mean we give away our right to Unconditional Love - something we are rarely taught, but must learn if we wish to achieve Freedom.

L~

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Kira said Oct 30, 2006, 10:54 AM:

Ladee,

would you be willing to say more about this? Disconnecting, however, doesn't mean we give away our right to Unconditional Love

this is what I'm especially wanting to hear more about – can you talk about it in concrete, everyday-life terms as opposed to abstract, theoretical terms? how does this play out in your life, or how might it play out in someone else's life?

thanks,
Kira

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

GypsyLadee said Oct 30, 2006, 4:53 PM:

DragonDancer suggested a version of recapitulation, later in this thread, which may appeal to you. Another specific method I use follows:

After I've achieved a state of meditation (you can do this by whatever method you use to get there), I envision the person standing at a distance before me. We are eached bathed in white light. I then envision a shaft of light moving from me and another moving toward me from the other (sort of like a superhighway of energies). I imagine that the shaft moving from me is all the energy I've received/taken from the other, and the shaft coming toward me all the energy I sent/have given to the other. I allow these energies to continue moving/shifting until I sense that everything we've exchanged has been returned to the originator. Mine is mine, theirs is theirs. As these energies return to each of us, the shafts begin to shrink and ultimately disappear. We are each whole again, by ourselves.

By re-exhanging these energies I've discovered that there is an automatic separation now between us, but since we've recovered only that which is ours, we are each autonomous. A good friend and warrior often says, “Love is the reason.” Unconditional love, that is. We love and are loved not because of the approval sought and given. Most of what we've been taught throughout our lives is how to meet someone else's approval. Too many of us live and die for it.

Concrete and day-to-day: I mean this seriously, “What someone else thinks of me is none of my business,” and I've learned that it often means removing myself from someone's life. I had someone I considered a best friend, until I figured out that in order to merit her attention I needed to be dead (“My dead granny would never approve”) or dying (she spent a fair amount of energy caring for dying friends). Was this about me? No. Did I need to continue a relationship that wasn't of equal energy? No. I did the exercise above and found that I could continue to love her unconditionally, but no longer “needed” to win her attention. She and I still connect, I value her and her life, but don't feel that tug of need that left me feeling dissatisfied.

I live the lifestyle of a vagabond and many people don't approve (including my Dad). Actually, it turns out that most of those folks are simply jealous, lol. It looks like this: I live in a 26-foot RV, only pay for the electricity I use, and it costs me about $300 a month to stay afloat. I also own my own home, have one of the biggest (and most beautiful backyards full of Joshua Trees) of anyone I know, owe no debts and determine my own hours. If what I did was for approval, I wouldn't be this free. I can spend hours a day soaking in the beauty of the desert or work on someone's website … whenever I choose. And by choosing this lifestyle I've drawn some of the most incredible people into my life who give and love freely.

Unconditional love … love without boundaries. Freedom from judgment.

L~

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Kira said Oct 30, 2006, 8:33 PM:

thanks for your post, Ladee

and dang, this is a good pod! thank you for sprouting it

I like the visualization you suggested – I'll experiment with the one you offered and Dragon Dancer's too

I laughed out loud when I read this: what someone else thinks of me is none of my business because just this morning I said the very same thing to someone – there's some amazing synchronicity going on in my life these days

I get a lot of crap from people when I choose to separate from people who are toxic to me – and because separating was so taboo in my family, I sometimes get confused about my right to separate – I think it means I'm bad on some level – (I'm working on this) – but I know rationally that I'm free to do what's right for me, and furthermore that if I don't make smart choices to care for myself, no one's going to – this is one of my jobs as an adult and as a guardian of my well-being

I love what you wrote about living the life of a vagabond – I lived that way for decades until I moved to Tucson – then something in me said, aaaaah, HOME – I've lived here for six years and am utterly content – and deeply nourished by the desert – still, I live a fairly unattached life – I live in a modest apartment to keep my expenses low – I'm self-employed and love the freedom to do whatever I want to do – take a walk in the middle of the morning, take a bath in the afternoon, and answer to no one – I know what it's like to be the recipient of people's disapproval for how I live – my brother is incredibly hostile toward me because I use my free will to make choices he doesn't allow himself to make – I think I'll send him some unconditional love :)

peace,
Kira

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Journeys [no longer around] said Oct 26, 2006, 6:29 PM:

GypsyLadee,

“I've come to learn that “It's all about me!” is the flip side of the coin in the agreement, Take nothing personally. When we fully comprehend that each of us is “all about me” we can grasp that what others do, think and say is all about them and what we must learn is how to adjust our own way of responding and living in this world.”

This has been one of the most freeing realizations for me - shifting into the other person's perspective and seeing things through their eyes as much as is possible. Diffinitely a work in progress.

Peace and love,

Dave

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Dragon Dancer said Oct 27, 2006, 9:35 AM:

I've thought about this for a few days and I am still not sure what I am going to say here.

I have 2 families. My birth family and my 'real' family. I won't go into a long description of my birth family experience because I don't think that is necessary here, suffice it to say that I left when I was 14 because my biological father climbed into my bed and I felt guilty for years because I was the 'mother' and I had left my younger sibs behind.

I was blessed to be taken in by my best friends family..this is my 'real family' even thought I did't fully except this until I was 28 or so. You can choose your family.

I slowly began to accept that they were not really family and the only connection I had was what they might need from me.

Some of my bio-sibs ended up with good people and some did not. As they grew I could see that they were able to shape their lives as they choose no matter where they went and some are 'toxic' to this day and some are not.

I saw my bio-family (in all their separate places) on holidays and birthdays and whenever they needed something for years. Because they were my family, my blood, no matter what.

You might be surprised that I saw my bio-father at all, but he was my father after-all and I knew I could handle it…besides I only saw him in a public place and for very short visits...

I broke off all contact with him when he did something that put him in proper perspective for me: A month after my husband died unexpectedly I came home (my real family) for a hug. I, as always, visited each of my bio-family. Each were, in their individual ways, sympathetic.

Except my bio-father. Sitting across the restaurant table he said, “I'm glad he died. Maybe now you will come to your senses and move back here.” I walked out and never saw or talked to him again.

I still keep in touch with 3 of my bio-sibs. Don't see 2 in any way and 1 is dead.

My bio-mother died as a friend. My bio-father? I have no idea where he is or if he is alive or dead.

I am glad my life has been as it has been. I have gained so much from everything I have seen and done and, no matter what this story may bring to mind for you, I have had a life filled, from day one, with joy and love.

I tell you this story to let you know that I speak from experience and not from supposition.

Choose your life and choose how you feel about it.

If you think you can always understand where someone else is 'comming from' think again.

One of the bio-brothers that I keep in touch with told me that our sister “N” (that I choose not to see) is so 'difficult' for me to be around because she is jealous of me and always has been. I asked him why and he said she told him she was jealous because our father never tried to have sex with her. Go figure.

Their have been many wonderful posts here. With a lot of useful information that I won't repeat here.

I remember a question Don Miguel was asked about his forgetting conversations that he had had and he said that he listened and responded with all his attention while they were talking to him but when they walked away the conversion left with them.

Your 'stuff 'is about you and their 'stuff' is about them. If they don't add to your self leave it with them and you can choose your family.

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

HeyOK said Oct 28, 2006, 2:34 AM:

Well said Dragon Dancer! Peace.

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Kira said Oct 29, 2006, 4:12 PM:

Dragon Dancer,

WOW, what a story – thank you for sharing it here – you sure do speak from experience – your courage and clarity are inspiring

I love what you said here: If they don't add to your self leave it with them and you can choose your family.

I think the reason I posted the original question is because I have walked away from a lot of people who felt toxic to me (family members included), and I've gotten a lot of sh!t for it – I need to trust my own sense of rightness more – a situation like that came up recently like that, and I realized, just this afternoon, that my rationale isn't any concern of the other person, and the other person's reaction isn't any concern of mine – things feel so clean when I think that way

by the way, for anyone interested, please take a look at my Healthy Boundaries pod – boundaries are a lifelong interest and growing edge for me

blessings,
Kira

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

GypsyLadee said Oct 30, 2006, 10:52 AM:

Thanks for your willingness to share that, DragonDancer. It's a blessing, isn't it, when you realize that what is past has passed. It is NOT what or who we are today, nor do we need to hold onto our past to Be who we are.

As a kid I was repeatedly molested, and as an adult one of my “tasks” was to learn how to move through and past the experience. It certainly contributed to who I am today … but I am not the molested kid, I'm a warrior of great strength and character. So, I am able to embrace the experience of my childhood, and - by doing so - welcome amazing experiences into my life.

L~

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Bear said Nov 16, 2006, 12:53 AM:

Hi all
Thanks for the post Dragon Dancer, and to Kira for the question.

I too have a bio family I do not have contact with, similar reasons.
They are Toxic. In my case it was my three brothers, and an uncle,
My parent knew and did nothing. I was the youngest child of 4
A full 12 years younger.
I left home at 11 lived on and off the streets for many years.
Then reconnected with my bio family and found that my brothers were all the same and stick together like pack animals. My mother ok, but in big denial
as was my father.
I choose not to have them in my life; my parents have now both past. I have no information about my brothers.

Many of the stories of my past are hard to hear so I don’t tell them often; they are for the most part only stories to me now. They are not about me or who I am.
The point is it wasn’t personal, it would not have mattered who was in the space of being the youngest only girl, the same treatment would have occurred. Also I wasn’t in control of them ever not then, not now.
What I do have some power in, is me and the choices I make. I can decide to be free.

I too used guided meditation. Sending them back their energy, taking mine from them. Sending light and love to them. Cutting cords then visualizing the cords in the earth.

One of the tools I find helpful in what I call mirror work. I ask all of my students to do this.
Look into a mirror and say:

I love myself, I accept myself, I approve of myself

In time you’ll stop looking for this in others.

Blessings, Bear

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Dragon Dancer said Oct 30, 2006, 11:29 AM:

Kira,

I know this was not directed to me but I hope you don't mind my commenting anyway.

Re: Disconnecting, however, doesn't mean we give away our right to Unconditional Love

The best way for me to respond is to give you this exercise as my answer to your question.

Sit quietly and close your eyes. Breathe normally until your mind is quiet and your eyes, your neck and shoulders are relaxed.

Find yourself sitting in a beautiful glen with a stage in front of you.

On that stage stands the person you want to disconnect with.

Imagine an infinite source of love and healing flowing from a source above the top of your head (from your Higher Self/from God/from the Divine Force), and open up the top of your head, and let the source of love and healing flow down inside your body, fill up the body, and overflow out your heart to heal the person on the stage.

Know that it is right and good for you to heal the person and for them to accept the healing.

When the healing is complete, have a discussion with the person and forgive them, and have them forgive you.

Next, let go of the person, and see them floating away.

As they do, cut the aka cord that connects the two of you.

Do this with any person in your life with whom you need to disconnect.

The final test is, can you see the person or think of them (or what they did or didn't do) without feeling any negative emotions.

If you do feel negative emotions when you do, then do the process again.

This is unconditional Love.
This is what you need to do to be whole and complete.
This is what you need to do if you wish to be all that you can be.

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Kira said Oct 30, 2006, 8:20 PM:

hi Dragon Dancer,

thank you – this is beautiful, and it couldn't come at a more perfect time :)

I accept that sometimes the right path is to separate from someone – and I follow that path – I wish the person love and a rich, full life – yet I've always had a sense that some kind of energetic separation-with-love needed to happen as well, and I haven't had the tools for this – I very much appreciate your input

blessings,
Kira

Re: The Four Agreements ... and beyond

Dragon Dancer said Oct 30, 2006, 8:33 PM:

I have always found that there was someone to give me the tools that I was asking for…I am glad that I could do the same for you.

Blessings