Sexuality

I feel sad sometimes when I think of how we have cheapened sex to be meaningless or to be a measure of our value.  I think it is a precious gift and a sacred joy.

In talking with some friends, I feel like I am alone on that field sometimes.  I am wondering how you feel about your sexuality in general and then the intimacy of sex with another.  What meaning does it hold for you?

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Intimacy is not well understood. We can be intimate and not have sex. We can have sex and no be intimate. Intimacy is trust and true understanding. Sex with intimacy is wonderful! It is a meaningful expression of connection!

Sex without intimacy is a drive for contact. It is a function of biology.I do not judge those who wish this to be their choice, but I do feel sad to see FWB(Friends with benefits) take away some of the sacred-ness of the act.

Passionate Marriage is a wonderful book to describe the difference! My husband and I read it together and really understood and connected on a more intimate level.

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Probably gonna eat some crow for this. I have had some of the most intimate sex with a good friend of mine. She agrees, marriage will never be a factor, and i do indeed love her truly for who she is, a dear friend.
I believe it is unfair to equate sex, intimacy with marriage. It happens without it, respect happens, and the most incredible sex happens.
Ok let me have it :0)
Namaste~Elf

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Sorry, I should clarify the “Passionate Marriage” book is not just for married people. it is for anyone interested in intimacy. Sex being the “marriage” of bodies/minds/hearts. Not the “legalese” term.

If your friend is an intimate friend ( you can share anything and are caring of each other etc) then you are having sex with intimacy. The wedding is not important. It is more a state of mind I think.
You do not have to eat any crow for me…EVER!

LOL

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Thank you both.  I'll look into that book.

Elf, I don't equate sex with marraige (although, I do think that marraige should include sex)

I wonder about the boundaries or lack of boundaries people can put on something so intimate.  For instance…

A friend that feels free to comment on my intimate life with my honey in crude terms I would never use.  “You going to get laid this weekend?” kind of comments.  I feel like we have taken something wonderful and made it into something entirely different.

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Jill..you are right! Sometimes friends think they can say anything and it does matter if it is crude, to show either ignorance or jealousy??? Hmm….or maybe that they are an intimate enough friend to get away with it?

We must set our boundaries with them and their “lingo” especaially if it hurts us.

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I can hear one of my best friends in my head say “OH PLEASE… NO NO NO NO…. You said boundaries.  Ahhh man… it is like waving fresh meat in front of a lion.”  LOL

I am a strong advocate for healthy boundaries.  So yes, you're right.  I do not cheapen sex and intimacy and I don't allow anyone (regardless of how close they are to me) to do the same.

Re: Sexuality

Hi, everybody.

Thought I'd ring in on this one.

I speak for the lip bitin', toe curlin', dawg howlin', blues singing', gospel shoutin' fire of love.

Yeah, that's it.

Anyone can buy a dozen roses.  A lover finds one beautiful blossom and embraces it with everything–joy, sorrow, fear, trust, doubt, peace, you name it.

Intimacy.

And sexuality?  Only a word.  Communion of the all that is with the all that is through the all that is.

Yeah, that's it.  I'll shout that gospel–

John

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Nicely said, John.

I think communion happens when you allow intimacy to unfold.

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I hear you, Jill.

Sweetlove and I had some mango sticky rice not long ago at a Thai place.

We're hoping that we can get that stuff in quantity,

John

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I whole heartedly agree Jill and John.  I believe sex is a spiritual teacher. 

Starting with the first time we masturbate we are connecting with an unseen energy to elicit pleasure at its maximum.  Is an orgasm the complete, pure conduit to the ultimate pleasure of Spirit?   I I believe sex is most definitely a Spiritual Teacher.  My own sexuality has evolved into an incredible gift that reaches ultimate intimacy when shared with a partner you are in love with. 

Re: Sexuality

I whole heartedly agree Jill and John.  I believe sex is a spiritual teacher. 

Starting with the first time we masturbate we are connecting with an unseen energy to elicit pleasure at its maximum.  Is an orgasm the complete, pure conduit to the ultimate pleasure of Spirit?   I I believe sex is most definitely a Spiritual Teacher.  My own sexuality has evolved into an incredible gift that reaches ultimate intimacy when shared with a partner you are in love with. 

Re: Sexuality

I hear you, Jill.

Nicely said.

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I see sex as a “Spiritual Teacher” too.  Last summer for serveral months I practiced celibacy, and it was the most enlightening experience.  I started to see sex in a different light afterwards.   I can respect and understand further why most religions encourage celibacy for monks and nuns.

I think masturbation is a better route than sleeping around with meaningless people to staisfy a sense pleasure, but still it isn't right.  We are only giving in, being slaves to our minds if we do either.  I think we need to remind ourselves of impermance, for whatever where thinking or feeling right now…will come to pass.  Training our mind to see this behavior is essential. 

I look at the natural environment with all animals in nature, and see they only have sex to pro-create to keep the eco-systems alive and functioning.  We as humans are addicted to sex (and oil), and abuse it's special sacrednesses.  We have been culturally conditioned in a society that is loaded with sex.  Its advertized all over. 

As I have grown spiritually, I never thought I would be one saying all this, but I have thought about it for some time now…I find this as our greatest challenege as we are to grow in our lives.  I currently struggle everyday with training my mind and understanding impermance.  In dating people it is hard for them to understand where I am coming from.  It has even hurt the potential for growth with a partner because they can't see where I'm coming from when I don't need to have sex everyday or for a week, sometimes two.

Then, I think…how clouded we are as humans from seeing the truths of the world because we are in a highly sex advertized culture.  I know it is everywhere.  Please comment and share.

Thanks for everyone words…Bowing…Namaste'

Brent

Re: Sexuality

Ok…now I gotta weigh in with something I read in Osho’s Maturity book. I had never thought of it this way before and I do not know if I am in agreement or not, but want to put it on the table to discuss.

Osho describes the 7 year cycles of life. They are every 7 years, until age 70. Naturally some people do not live 70 years and others live longer. Osho is a man, a mystic(now deceased)

1st 7-self absorption center of world, masturbatory, doesn’t need anyone, complete in self.

7-14 questioner, skeptic, girls not interested in boys, or vice versa. A more “homosexual” stage, not sexually but in interest of same sex friends.
14th year: changes to opposite sex interest, although some stay interested in same sex still. Sexual fantasties come out, poetry arises, romance.
21st-28th year interest shifts to ambition! Material things, work, future desires impt.
by 28+: family more important, all desires not fullfilled usually, but realization comes, comfy life, savings, small house, kids
by 35+: omega point, more conservative, conformist, tradition impt, religion maybe
42 +: mental and physical illneses erupts, energy declines, aging starts, more fat on body, hair falls out or turns gray ..no longer young, sex sells, they are becoming obsolete.Society fails them, they are in limbo.

49+Searching for self for the past 7 years, no longer interested in others, women start menopause and men doesn’t feel like being sexual. It looks juvenile, immature. Men start losing testosterone and feel guilty as they cannot “perform” well pr are made to feel if they do not something is wrong with them.Now instead of trying to stop people from making love, like at age 14, psychologists force men to make love or they will lose life.

56+ men are no longer just disinteed in sex they are not interested in others, anyone. They want to travel, life is winding down.

By 63+ men are only interested in themselves, they become childlike.Worry over health, etc.

Now, this is condensed and it does not apply to every single person obviously. What he says afterwards is fascinating through….A man who has not traveled through these stages or similar ones, stays stuck in the 14 year old stage of lust. They are what you would call dirty old men, ones that look at younger women with lust ini their eyes. He states that the eyes should be innocent at later ages, Sex is beautiful in its time and season, and ugly out of season, or out of time.What happens to the sexual urge as one ages can be transmuted into spiritual energy and tantric union.

After all of this…condensed and general, I wonder what you think about this…???

Men are ready at 14..women at 40+….there is such disparity. the idea of being stuck in any time mentally and how we see ourselves sexually is an topic worthy of discourse. Since sex can be sacred, how is it that society is so against it when men are at their primes, and so for it when men are waning in the perfomance department.

He also says each decade is about different facets of growth. By the time we age, we should be seeking more spiritual pursuits than physical ones…and that society sends the wrong messages….

:)

See, I cannot decide how I feel….about all this info.

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i tend to resist sweeping generalizations though i'm sure they are true for some or perhaps even many. i would find this quite discouraging if i thought we were all doomed to this downward slide from the age I am now turning (42)! :)

yet even this sort of thing is helpful, as a contrast, to facilitate clarification of what we really believe about life.

so thank you!

bows,

nicole

Re: Sexuality

I don't think it means a slide downward, actually I think he might mean we go more inward, and also upward(spiritually) I did not look at it negatively at all….and yes, remember I have condensed this  as it was quite long…we take the energies from the root chakra and bring them to the crown chakra.

I have seen these types of changes occur in many of the lives of peopleI know and that are found in this book that it shows us the maturing process. Tantra is used later in life as sexual experience. It moves away from the physical and more into the sacred spiritual idea of sex..which is what we are kind of discussing here…

Again I am not buying into it because it is written down, I take no one for a “guru” in my life, but the way he explains it is fascinating….and at 51, almost 52, I have seen physical changes in many others, including myself. But is is not a lessening of desire, it is a desire to transcend the limits of the physical body…..

Thanks for your input Nicole!!

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thanks for the clarifications. that helps!

peace,

nicole

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Fine insights here all around.

I like to wake up knowing that my chi is renewing itself.  Sometimes this renewal is raging, sometimes more flexible, sometimes more like pulsing fire.

But any morning with manifestably renewing chi is a good one, as I see it.

Celebrating a thing and being mastered by it are not always the same thing.

Wonder what tomorrow will bring,

John

P.S.  And bring on the sticky mango rice. :)

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Awesome brother John…chi has a way of working its own brand of magic now doesn't it?

Celebratin the NOW is all good…and in the morning maybe a bit more of the NOW as well.

Sacred fire…and some sticky mango rice

:)

Aley

Re: Sexuality

I LOVE THIS CONVERSATION!  You each are adding really wonderful insights and perspectives!

Re: Sexuality

I think for different people, sex holds a different meaning. Many people who have been through a traumatic event, like being raped either are frightened to be intimate or are too sexual. People who have lost a father or mother, or someone has walked out of their life believe that sex will make up for that loss and that abandonment. I believe it should be a sacred time between you and your partner. I don't think it should be something that people just throw around. It's an intimate detail in your life that should be shared with the one you love. People replace the word love in sex with comfort and acceptness. They believe this will make them feel wanted and accepted for what they've lost. Sex should be a sacred moment between two people that show their true love.