Explorations of Self - 2 March-20 July 2009

What is this self which I refer to as ‘I’?
What is the ego?
Is the ego, self?
Is self constant and unchanging?

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This is possibly the most important question : Who am I.
Ego is separateness . I divided into I-you-him-her-they as separate.

“I” is a word that paradoxically I could not use before I got out of ego.

When I was younger, I’d always talk about “we” and “us” or “one”. It may have seemed that I was not egotistical; but actually, not to come into my fullness was being in ego. Sometimes outward humility is of the ego.

Through healing and lightwork, when I experienced the “I”, it became so much easier to use the word. When I accepted that I am one with you, I could get out of the separateness of egol

I am exploring these issues with a remarkable text I’m reading nowadays, called Yoga Vasishtha. Posting excerpts on the book’s discussion group and also in Living Metaphysics.

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Meenakshi, I’m enjoying this journey with you

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I am not ego. I am a ‘non self’. Ego is my temporary awareness of self which believes it is my ‘eternal self’.

I am constantly changing. This is is my true nature. My true self is boundless and potential. I like to give birth to something out of my potential. This is my creativity.

I like to simply rest in my awareness. This is when I am neither active not inactive but perfectly balanced - in meditation. I do not rest. My body rests, but my mind continues to be alert/aware in different ways.

I am still developing my awareness. The ambiguity which comes up for me about this is; I am aware and I am what I am but I am needing to become aware of what this is.  I practice certain things to help me with this, like meditation practices. I read certain literature and attend certain teachings. I am continually developing my awareness. I become aware of obstructions and know even they arise out of my own mind. I am still learning why they arise.

I love my path and this learning. I also have a sense of urgency about my learning. A sense that I need to ‘go home’; be at peace. I am engaged and enthusiastic about walking my path. There are times when I feel tired or despondent - I still continue with my path; knowing I have no option. Knowing that to do anything else will just bring me more suffering.

Further thoughts:
Gratitude is so important as it brings my awareness to a more positive space.
Shame too, is important, as it brings my awareness to my liberation.

This journey is continual and not about conceptualising. Its about being present - Be-ing.

I am aware that I wish to love. And this awareness grows and grows. I know one day I will truly be love and discover what this truly is. It is as though the more aware I become, the more I love, the more I love and become love. I yearn to be this love in its entirety and so my love affair with love propels me along. I think of Rumi who is Lover and Beloved.

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What is this self which I refer to as ‘I’?

I referring to I negates I.
I am nothing
and in that I am everything

And sometimes I decide to be mother, or wife, or friend or purple or fingers on a typewriter.
Or a cloud

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[1]  What is this self which I refer to as ‘I’?
           Awareness, presence.  The conscious life force that entered in and will someday leave and yet goes on infinitely.  It is genuine in expression.

[2]  What is the ego?
           Programmed by parental perception, societal expediency, personality, the role I’ve been assigned in this “play” (mother, daughter, teacher, etc), it is all the identifications with the “costume” (the body, hair, clothing preferences), it is all that is temporary and part of this material incarnation.

[3]  Is the ego, self?
           No but the self uses the ego within this physical life.  In some the ego dominates to the exclusion of the self expressing.

[4]  Is self constant and unchanging?
           No, it is consciously evolving to be more, more evident in this physical life and more capable of expressing through it more clearly.  Whether this applies also in non-physical I don’t feel I can know for certain while incarnated physically.

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thought provoking, thank you

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1. The I is that which is the thinking awareness of myself that is sometimes here and sometimes out beyond the body.
2. Ego is always in the body and it tries to drive it. It also tries to be what others want. It has its uses though. People give it bad press but its there to protect the I.
3. The ego is an aspect of self. Self puts the ego on like a garment and wears it out in places that may seem dangerous to the self unclothed. I feel the need to make friends with the ego and treat all the parts of the self with respect including the ego. There must be balance though. 
4. The self is ever evolving

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Jenny,

This is a really comfortable interpretation, it resonates with me.

Deb

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I like the idea of the ego as a garment,something to put on in the world as protection…but in balance with I (awareness)

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These questions are difficult to answer because there are so many ways I, ego and self are used, even by me, but that's ok. I will go with what resonates today…

This “I” - the way I think and feel about myself changes and yet persists. 

To me at this moment, ego has to do with attachments - wanting to be in the limelight, not being open to the I's all around me, needing things to go my way. So, part of my self, taking a big space in my thoughts and emotions, but not my whole self.

I think part of my self may be constant but that is the part I know the least about. The parts I am most aware of always seem to be moving about.

Probably the best ways to explore self are through going deeper into relationships with other, as we've seen recently in many Q and R responses. 

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As this thread evolves I become aware the word ego may have different meanings for different people.

For me - revisiting…
the ego is the aspect of self who wants to solidify/be material because it was birthed in the material world…

…whereas everything is constantly changing … and when we try and find 'I' - 'I' cannot be found

I wrote this poem many years ago - I have posted it elsewhere in this group:

Empty

through what eyes

what vision

do I project

when I look inside

empty

I speak

now hesitating

now clear

from where come the words

when I look inside

empty

like music

unchanging

feelings but not

emotion

like love

truly

what is joy

what is sorrow

I am

an inheritance

a culmination

an interpretation

when I look inside

I see no furniture

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A hundred years ago, when I was at university, we learned that the self consists of 3 parts. The ego, the superego and the id.  The ego is the self that we present to the world, the superego is what regulates us (or I suppose our conscience) the id is that primitive part of us that we need to keep in check to be accepted into society.

Thank you sigmund and carl…

I think that some of that is true, I can see how I adjust my behaviour to conform to society, I can feel the discomfort of this conformance when my conscience reminds me that my conformance is counter intuitive, and my id pushing me along to grab everything I can like a spoilt child.

This is probably a shallow example but her goes:
I earn lots of money doing a job I enjoy, but don't really feel passionate about.  One of the perks is that I get to drive a really nice car.  What i feel guilty about is that my car guzzles petrol like crazy.  I should really sell it and buy a smaller more fuel efficient car.  My ego tells me that I should have a car that reflects my status in life.  My id tells me that any other car will not be half as much fun or as comfortable.  My superego is nagging that I am helping to destroy the planet.  I keep thinking about all the polar bears that are drowning because of global warming.

On a competely different level I have really lost interest in my job, and would like to try something else, but I am trapped by the reality of car payments, a mortgage and being able to do whatever I want without having to worry about the financial burden.

When I was a teenager, I heard about farmers who grew tomatoes in tunnels.  Since then I have always wanted to have a farm like that.  Choices were made for me by my parents, teachers and others who thought they had my best interests at heart.  Now I live a 9-5 existance, my daughter is looked after by othe people from 8-5:30 every day, and I only get to be outside on the weekends.

I don't know wher I am going with this…

I can remember the way I thought and felt when I was very small.  I still think & feel the same now.  If that is waht constitutes the self, then yes, I think it is constant.  Life experiences remind us of who were are and help us to resume our life path when we have strayed into the wilderness.

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Giving you a hug as you recognise the need to follow the heart - your heart

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http://authenticsoul.gaia.com/blog/2009/6/world-event-love-globally-the-world-is-invited?printable=1
I have been on this self exploration journey for alamost ten years now , looking searching for me , for love of myself , and just recently , I have seen the light of day , and shed the old , and began a new trek in love , and life . I also have discovered , my true love , my soul mate along the path , my first real love , as I never really new how to love , as I lived in toxic ways , a choice of mine solo me.
Now I want to celebrate this love , this covenant of my love for me , my soul mate , and the love I feel for the people of this


LOVE GLOBALLY
Come one come all and love be and be with peace , and harmony…

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http://authenticsoul.gaia.com/blog/2009/6/love-globally-for-free?printable=1

Hi all , as I continue to learn grow , and blossom along this path , of love , and living , and peace , and wellbeing.
I am amazed with the people that have been some of my most amazing teachers in life , and love , and they have been here on Gaia, thank you all.
with love Lori
Please join me if you can not come to Moose Jaw , please take the next three days to LOVE GLOBALLY , and keep th e giving alive , and well .
Thanks so very much Gaia.

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The self cannot change the past. The self cannot know the future. We can grok the odds and guess at the probability and we cannot know for certain.
The self is about 1/2 a second behind the present as it takes time for the messages from our sensory centers to get to the brain and the brain to grok.
So the self is what one groks.
Grokking is breathing the divine/awakening/grace. We all do it all the time anyways. Let's celebrate it with a word. I got it from Robert Heinlein.

The self is constantly changing. Constantly.

The ego is a western construct that gets in this one's way. So does the unconcious, hubris, pride and right and wrong. This one has a hard time seeing where this one ends and the rest of the ones begin.
This one prefers to refer to this one as this one, part of the One. By saying this one this one remind this one's self to remember the One and the part this one is in the One. Does it take more time to be clear? Yes, and for this one it is infinitely worth it.
Then there is no ego, no boundary between the one who is iljung and the one who is hummingbird and the the one who is tai and any other one. We are all One. There is no right or wrong. If some one walks up to me tonight and says “I want you dead” is that right or wrong? No it just is. They may are may not kill this one. If it is this one's time to die then this one will die. And this one has been asked to die and has been shot at, attacked, threatened. So this is no idle blah blah blah. This one has the opportunity to show the one who wants this one dead that there is only good and greater good.
A woman once was car jacked and threatened with rape and murder at knife point. She eventually talked her attacker into putting down the knife and seeing her minister. She saw the good in that person and mirrored it to them. (This story was related to me in the first person.) There are a lot of ways she could have gotten herself killed. She knew that. She taook responsibility and decided not to. 
There is good and greater good. Greater good is letting this one touch more and more other ones.
This is this one's self at this moment. This one is ever changing. This is part of why this one changes his icon everyday to reflect change.

This morning this one awoke to  

Slow down, ya move too fast
I gotta make the morning last now
skipping around the cobble stones.
skippin’ around and feelin’ groovy
 
enough for today or this one will move too fast

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http://authenticsoul.gaia.com/blog/2009/6/off-on-a-much-needed?printable=1

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First this one wants to say hi to anyone else walking this labyrinth: Godess and hummingbird and soccermom. This one is listing anyone recent and will say hi to others as they come on.
This one want to be upfront that this is the only post site in Gaia this one is using “this one” exclusively to replace the word “I”. This site is for this one to practice this one's healing space and using “this one” is very healing for this one.

This one thought this one remembered reading in the instructions/intentions to record one's dreams. Today is was very rainy here in MN, yea cuz we're are in a drought, and this one was worried about falling asleep-this one works over night-because this one's dad has surgery yesterday and had to stay overnight in the hospital. So this one took wood betany so help him fall asleep and sleep for 11 hours. Wood betany is also a support for the pineal gland which is a support for our dreams.

The dream this one remembers most is being in some learning environment with a womyn who seemed to be a composite of all this one's failed relationships and this one had a computer class that had a paper/project due. This one felt the gut wrenching terror of “knowing” that this one would fail.

This one, thru this one's dad getting his HS diploma at 80, just found out that this one's father has an IQ around 190. This one's relationship is now healing with this one's father after decades of struggle, much of it over Dad expecting perfection of this one. The universe is perfect but that is not an expectation. That is a reality that carries no right or wrongness to it.
Mom did not breast feed this one because of fertility drugs and did not touch this one between feedings, normal behavior for the 50's so this one howled for love and attention til this one learned how to get it oneself. This one grew up with intense anxiety attacks of any predicted or percieved failures in one's life and spent 35 years battling/struggling misdiagnosised mental illneses.

6 months ago this one understood that this one is not bi-polar or malorly depressed or manic. This one produced massive amounts of adrenaline in a constant attempt to please everyone around this one and then had massive depressions when those adrenaline fueled anxiety attacks were not “successful.”

This dream is a reverberation of all those years. Specifically it was a reaction to last night finding out that the gen mgr of the site this one works at is leaving and all this one's on-site work agreements are verbal and with him. This one's employer is in bankruptcy and this one's site's mgmt co is new.

This one now groks-grokking is breathing the divine- that 1. There is no need for adrenaline rushes (except when necessary and even then they can be regulated) and taking adrenal gland support foods and herbs allows this one to influence the adrenal glands on a moment by moment basis. 2. That hugging the terrors in this one's life allows this one to own the terror and let it be real, which means accepting life as it is with no past recriminations or projected future failures.
3. That one, in a matter of moments, can return to the life of the present with these aids and lots of self reflection and compassion which results in breathing in the divine can overcome the terrors of the past.

So this is what came out from that dream and wanting to walk this labyrinth.
na'ameste'
and yes this is how this one is in the world 24/7. This one is kind of intense.
And goofy also.

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What is this self which I refer to as ‘I’? 


Me.

What is the ego? 


I don't know.

Is the ego, self?


I don't think I can answer that yet.

Is self constant and unchanging?


I don't know this either…

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Iljung, I enjoyed reading your lines, thank you.
KJ, 'Unknowing' is like fertile ground. It can feel unnerving though. How do you feel about not knowing?

love

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What is this self which I refer to as ‘I’? 
my spirit
What is the ego? 
it can be pride or it can be reactivity depending on the product/service of anything. It is good to keep the ego in check so not to over react in negative ways but not allow the know-best or self-importance button to empower over one's own integrity and spirituality.  There are other dictionary definitions in www.onelook.com

e·go [ gō, éggō ] (plural e·gos)

noun  Definition:   1. self-esteem: somebody's idea of his or her own importance or worth, usually of an appropriate level
The climb left us with frostbite and bruised egos.

2. inflated opinion of self: an exaggerated sense of self-importance and a feeling of superiority to other people

3. psychoanalysis part of mind containing consciousness: in Freudian psychology, one of three main divisions of the mind, containing consciousness and memory and involved with control, planning, and conforming to reality

4. philosophy self: the individual self, as distinct from the outside world and other selves

[Early 19th century. < Latin, “I”]
Is the ego, self? 
It goes more with the mind and attitude or tolerance of something.
Is self constant and unchanging?
The spiritual being is constant (static) and is evolving and changing depending on environment and continuing self study or education.  But as a common denominator of all of us we are all surviving and expanding and changing the world in our own ways.

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Lee, thank you for sharing your well researched, thought through and felt post

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What is this self which I refer to as ‘I’?
I see it as energy within the universe which manifests in this body and is in all things,
enjoying a unique and diverse experience
What is the ego?
difficult, well maybe the base understanding from which we can access higher self or spirit and grow.out of.
Is the ego, self? , maybe a neccesary part of self to help us access awarenessand transcend it
Is self constant and unchanging?
Oh no self develops onto self-actualised spirit and grows, maybe like peeling an onion with spirit at centre, not sure we ever finally arrive, that would be stagnation in an infinite universe, I suspect spirit rises to a new dimension to grow again in an infinite spiral. Just my personal thoughts here, not what I have been taught, always true to gut feelings / heart.

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Zephyr you are so good at following your heart and gut feelings

love

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Anna, thank you, it was drummed into me as a child, be true to your self, ie what is in the heart. I have always been grateful for that, and it's not something I wish to change, feelings are there for a reason, I have learned to heed them.

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Whoever drummed this into you, Zephyr, was an excellent teacher!

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Reading all your comments set me thinking about ego generally in relation to all of creation which I see as perfection, we are a part of creation, All that Is, therefore a part of that perfection in All that Is. Just thinking aloud, here I resonate with Jenny, ego like everything else is there for a purpose, a part of the perfection of creations design. I also see love and intelligence in all of creation, which is in each of us in the inner core or spirit, so perhaps ego is perfect when aligned with true self inner core/ spirit?  When we stray from true inner self to outer material it becomes puffed up and often rebounds on us?  Natures way of bringing us back to spirit?  It works this way for me, how about you?

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interesting probing, Zephyr.  I like this line - I also see love and intelligence in all of creation.
I'm seeing ego more and more as an error in perception of self, recently I blogged on this. It seems to me ego believes it is separate from everything else and seems very related to survival issues

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Anna, I respect and appreciate your own personal view, but I see it another way , perhaps it is our different understanding of ego. I see diversity as integral in All, and each part interrelated, interdependent even, contributing more to the whole, not as each one separate, but as many facets of One. If ego is the self that we present to the world and we are being our true self then I don't see ego as an error, I accept it would be in error if we present a false front, pretending to be something we are not. I try to keep my mind open to change and new ideas, but that is how I see it at the moment.

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As flow and vibration of particles seems to be the essence of the created world, I have begun to see ego as a space, place, level or dimension that the Self occupies or visits or is aware of.

A place where we play the game of - my little finger is separate from my eye, and they both want to show their superiority.
I am separate, different, and better than you- but I”m not sure about it so I get defensive….

other feelings that come to mind, are veil.

But above all, play and game.

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Meenakshi, agreed flow and vibration produce constant change and flux, but if we are in the moment we see as it is?  Play and game is imaginative and may be useful in promoting change, and evolution, or less useful if untrue, but is not as is?

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Zephyr can you please expand on your last post - I'm a bit confused about exactly what you're saying

love

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Zephyr, it seems we use the word differently. I can easily flow with what you are saying.

Meenakshi - enjoying your poetic investigation

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Which word Anna? Do you mean ego? Interested to see how we interpret differently.
Which part do you want me to expand on ? I don't seem to be explaining my thoughts very well sorry, not meaning to be awkward. lol

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I went to read your blog on ego Anna, I follow your reasoning, and we do see the universe differently, though as you said you are changing your view. It is my view of the universe that shapes my view on self.  You saw the universe as something unchanging/constant - and are seing it differently now.
I saw the universe as Oneness sorting order from chaos into the perfection of creation using fibonacci and the golden mean, it is still evolving, and giving birth to baby universes, so Oneness is creative and mindbogglingly enormous constantly changing, it is full of growth, diversity, intelligence, and unconditional love and probably far more than I can grok, I 'm guessing we see the tip of the iceberg. In my mind I see Oneness as a huge diamond with many facets, we are only a part of that, to Oneness all life matters, not just us. I see Oneness as total awareness of all and in all, and something if we are lucky we can sense, communicate with interperson interspecies at distance, animals are better at this than we are, call it sixth sense, I have had some connections, with people and with other species,  but my cats and dog sense far more.  Creation didn't clone everyone, it actively encourages diversity growth and intelligence. In my mind the universe wants us and all life,  true to self, growing, evolving unfolding, flowering in great profusion, using our intelligence. Returning to oneness having used our talents and adding to the whole, another facet, Oneness is light - it's brilliant.   In my mind we can be aware of and access Oneness without losing self as long as we are true to inmost self and growth of spirit.  You talked of the rational mind, left brain dominant, i am intuitive, right brain dominant - no right or wrong just different, but it might explain our communication hiccup!!!
.

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Actually, Zephyr, to me, flow and vibration are the way to be in the moment.

You ask: ”if we are in the moment we see as it is”

To see a moment as it is, is to be fully present in it. To be fully aware. To do so, is not possible without flowing with the different energies of the moment.

“Play and game is imaginative and may be useful in promoting change, and evolution, or less useful if untrue, but is not as is?”

I see game as very different from play. Game is about opposition, and play is about togetherness. It is just a way I see that Spirit /the soul [using the terms loosely]  'feels' when it decides to descend into the ego consciousness.  It seems more serious when looking from self to Self; and more playful when looking from Self to self….that's how it seems right now.

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Quote Actually, Zephyr, to me, flow and vibration are the way to be in the moment.

You ask: ”if we are in the moment we see as it is”

To see a moment as it is, is to be fully present in it. To be fully aware. To do so, is not possible without flowing with the different energies of the moment.
Meenaksshi we are in agreement with the above,

Quote  I see game and play as very different
Here we do differ
When I define game and play they are not so very different

to Play can mean

to perform music on an instrument

to participate / plan in games or sport

to play a role or part in a drama

to act in fun , not in earnest

to imagine, lacking in reality or substance


a Game

entertaining activity

a match or competition

fun physical activity

games people play ( mind )

play with equipment, ball, board, video, etc

game can also mean an offensive term meaning impaired or injured


so both have positive and negative aspects and to a certain extent are interchangeable.
Hopefully we are looking at this from self to self.?

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Thank you for your reply, Zephyr. We say things like 'I see the universe as…'
To me this universe is actually 'I' and the 'I' that sees this bit or thinks that about it and evolves - this is the ego - a sort of blinkered obstruction which comes between what is.

mm the 'left brain and right brain'… I am also more intuitive but have developed my rational side over time to help bring 'order' into the 'chaos' - its about balance, I guess.

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Yes, my right is dominant but I have developed the left to come very close too,balance is important to me also. So looking at it logically, if I this part of the universe that we call I is the whole universe then Anna remains, Gien myself all others all creatures all plants, the stars planets just do not exist, they are an illusion?  How then does this universe that is all that is create baby universes and become more than it is? Surely that involves creation and a creator?

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Zephyr, my sense is that, Anna, Gien, Zephyr, all others, all creatures, all plants, the stars, planets are all what we're referring to as 'the universe'- maybe we are not both seeing this word in the same way - my sense is there is no 'outside' - this universe that is all that is creating baby universes and becoming more than it is, is the divine creator or Oneness.

There are many ways of seeing this and I know mine is but one of many!

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I'm so enjoying this play of energies. It's begun to seem that when I feel flow, it's play and when I feel plan, it's game….In the past few days I've become aware that I'm trying to talk from that bridge between the brains. The connection, which is something that's always fascinated me. It's the connections between the brain, and the language of using both [sides of the] brains simultaneously that is so amazing-and challenging.
Methinks that is to be posted on another part of the labyrinth. Will do so on my return from the outside world!

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What is this self which I refer to as ‘I’?
What is the ego?
Is the ego, self?
Is self constant and unchanging?

For me, the definitions have kept changing with time, age, and experience, and now, at 65, perhaps it is time to frankly confess that the answers are not known to the intellect which perhaps is defined as “me”.
Search is still on, but somehow there is now a feeling that when the river would finally meet it's final destination - the ocean - it will lose it's identity, and hence never really come back to let others know the answer(s)…..
Om Shanti!!! Om Shanti!!! Om Shanti!!!

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thank you Bhatta - that's a really lovely post. I resonate with it and find this part helpful

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I have been following this exploration of self and now have stumbled upon something to fill out the gaps in my own skin garment. Thanks for that one Ralph!!
It triggered a memory of something I had read years ago by Alan Watts.

Doing a quick one shoe Google shuffle (ego as a river)
I came upon this Blog Post by Magick River.

Bhatta you were the second trigger. Om Shanti!!!

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Have just returned to this thread after some time away from it. Wish I had kept a closer eye on it, interesting conversation. 

Zephyr I totalling connect with what you are saying. 

FastDart, thanks for that Alan Watts connection. Took me back to the 70's and made me remember that some knowledge is never new. That image you posted is fascinating and the more you look the more you see.

Bhatta a feeling that when the river would finally meet it's final destination - the ocean - it will lose it's identity, and hence never really come back to let others know the answer(s) 
I love this concept.

Iljung, interesting ideas and like how you present them. Some that I will need to read again when I am less tired and thinking more clearly.

Lovely to see Nicole and Meenakshi here, always with great comments to chew over and of course Anna, without whom we would not have this great place to discuss and think through ourselves. Anna thankyou for the orientation map. I feel more confident in navigating this group now.

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lovely to see you again, Jenny!

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Anna, Could we have a link to the orientation guide in the “About this group” in top right corner please?

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thank you, Jenny for assisting in making our group more helpful!

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Hey Anna, was it already there and I just didnt look?

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nope, I added it at your suggestion

thank you

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Dear Members, I'm locking this thread as it's becoming too long and therefore taking ages to open. It is continued here - Explorations of Self

love