Gaia: Walking the Labyrinth - Awareness - Aware of Awareness?

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://anuradha.gaia.com — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:19:23 GMT

Hi Jami, fellow traveler! In a sense I love the humbling experience you are referring to. It is a stage where there is so much potential and openness - so much more inspiring than an 'I'm in the know' attitude - or 'comfort zone' we seem to strive for.

The sense I have is the 'I' which strives is not that which 'finds'. This is where meditation practice becomes helpful - the 'space' where we meet the mind which does not strive and yet is
love

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://jami.gaia.com — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 04:48:32 GMT

May I just say - wow. I am very very new to Buddhism and am trying to figure out all of the paths it takes. Seeing all these wonderful comments here intrigues me even more. Everyone seems to have their own way, which I find wonderful and reassuring. It is as if "you can't really go wrong" on the path to enlightenment.

I take much courage in Gien's comment ...

" If thoughts arise
remain present in that state
If no thoughts arise
remain present in that state
There is no difference in the presence in either state"

For being a "tadpole" in this pond, I have much to learn - and trying to "still my mind" is something like trying to stop an avalanche by blowing at it! I am still looking for a way which works for me to find "awareness".

Thank you all for sharing.

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://ian-maleny.gaia.com — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 08:12:10 GMT

Descarte, unless I am incorrect, said, 'I think, therefore I am.'
The Buddha asked, 'What is it that thinks?'
I would add, for this group, 'What is it that is aware?'

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://ian-maleny.gaia.com — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:42:50 GMT

Exactly, ricosoma, 'the spaces between thoughts' are, in fact, when the mind is stilled - the thinking/mental process is halted.
Meditation is a means to an end and the choice of end determines the means or, one can say, the end justifies the means!! :-)
However, each to his/her own.
()

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://anuradha.gaia.com — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 12:16:39 GMT

Anna, thank you for giving insight into your journey. Awareness is a wonderful topic which seems to take us an important space
much love
Anna (HummingBird)

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://anna.gaia.com — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:32:10 GMT

I whish I had time to read everyone else's responses.....this is such a great topic. And I barely have time to write a response....I will try to keep it quick and short.

To me, aware of awareness is about getting ego out of the way and just *being* and *sensing* the completeness. That's a real challenge because simply being aware is an ego kind of thing. NOt in a bad way; ego is neither good nor bad. Of course....but nonetheless, it's our ego that claims awareness, right? Because in so doing, the ego can be seperate which is it's goal to begin with. Underneath that, though, is the simple awareness that has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with being in the body and knowing and sensing.

At least, that's how it is for me. I see it as kind of being the observer and the observed at the same time. Being aware of awareness means just being.....without being aware.

Peace.

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://anuradha.gaia.com — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:07:07 GMT

I guess we all speak from the perspective of our own personal journey. What other reference do we have? We share this with others - but obviously are not the 'the authority' of the path of anyone's but our own. This is why in this pod it is better to stick to our own journey and when we discuss the journey of another, to respond from an empathetic perspective
much love
HummingBird

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://cloudhidden.gaia.com — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:45:31 GMT

Ian,
Not everyone meditates to "still the mind". Some meditate to become established in the awareness that is aware of the meditation. This awareness can be found in the space between 2 thoughts. Meditating with the intent to still the mind can be frustrating kind of like a dog chasing its tail. Better to simply watch the thoughts and notice the spaces between the thoughts as they arise. The more aware we are of the spaces the larger the spaces become.

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://ian-maleny.gaia.com — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 23:30:23 GMT

"Thinking about" is the action of the mind, and the "mind" is the block to awareness of the Truth, the Reality. This is why people who understand meditation and its purpose meditate; they meditate to still the mind. This is like drawing aside the dense curtain that blocks our view (awareness) of the Reality.
Because I have realised something to which I could only give the term Thought I had to differentiate between it and mental activity and the result was the word mentivity together with its derivatives.
For more information on mentivity see Ian's Dictionary
For more information on Thought search my book [The Milk Is White] and my blog.

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://kaliyuga.gaia.com — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 18:49:47 GMT

Will I marry you
even though I'm already married to you?

....Sure I guess so, why not!
marrying the person I'm married to
It's kind of like being aware of awareness.

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://anuradha.gaia.com — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:48:36 GMT

Ricoma, thank you for your thoughtful sharing. These discussions take me back to the days when I was training as a yoga teacher. I love the way all traditions are in essence teaching the same thing.

I also love my spiritual journey. It's a spiral, taking me home.

A a h Gien, thank you for this post, so precious! Can I marry you?
:D

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://cloudhidden.gaia.com — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:41:28 GMT

"So in meditation or in thought
remain in the center of gravity of your presence
that is when the meditation transforms into nonmeditation"

And doing transforms into non-doing

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://kaliyuga.gaia.com — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:39:43 GMT

" If thoughts arise
remain present in that state
If no thoughts arise
remain present in that state
There is no difference in the presence in either state"

This is a very pith instruction from Garab Dorje. What does it mean?

What is it that is common to both moments of thought
and no thought?
....our presence

Beyond words
deeper than thinking mind
where our true nature lies
in the realm of the nondual

When one sits with no prejudgments
thoughts which arise on the "inside"
do not differ from experiences that arise on the "outside"
If we drop our outwardly conditioned dualistic labels
there is no intrinsic difference in either appearance
the mind experiences both of these on the same level

Like the mirror which reflects all images perfectly
and yet is detached from all of them
this presence is the true nature of mind
beyond any identification
It is not a thing in itself
but by it's apparent nonexistence
acts as a vessel for all forms to express themselves
therefore it is like space

Appearances arise and fall upon it
with perfect clarity
yet the mind remains unstained by any of these appearances
neither thoughts, nor feelings, nor sounds, nor sights
just like a mirror
When the object in front of the mirror is moved
the mirror image must follow along with it
to be replaced by a new image

Thoughts
which arise on this stainless mirror
equal to all other arising appearances
become the support for dualism
For it is within thoughts themselves
that dualism evolves to becomes our dominant perspective in life
We begin to attach, become distracted by
some of these appearances
that appear on the mirror of our mind, presence
We begin to associate some of these
like "thoughts", "emotions", our "arms", "legs", images of our "head" with an I/ego/me/self
we extrapolate an entire series of appearances on this stainless mirror, presence
and consolidate them into an illusory I/ego/me/self
and this becomes our center of gravity, our reference frame for our entire life

By so doing, we have lost our original pure view
the stainless mirror, presence
We have replaced freedom, spaciousness and clarity
with an artificial confinement, claustrophobia and confusion
We feel alienated from the world
uncertain about what happens after this constructed I/ego/me/self "dies"
We can never really resolve this question
as long as we are stuck in our constructed dualistic view
as long as we see don't see how we ourselves have constructed this view out of complete freedom, spaciousness and clarity

Our true nature is this stainless mirror, presence
which has no body, no form and includes ALL arising appearances; those that from dualistic view
arise from the "internal" world of the I/ego/me/self consolidation and also from the "outside" world

Thoughts
these appearances that "represent" other appearances
distilling their essence into an abstraction
and the contiguous, sequential flow of one abstraction after another
like these words written here
expressing some observed pattern
Though they are what allow us to "describe"
they themselves are inherently beyond description

Thoughts arise equal to all other appearances
on the stainless mirror of our mind, presence
This mind which itself has no form
yet allows for the experience of all forms

At the extreme of Yin
Yang begins
At the extreme of Yang
Yin begins
At the extreme of night
day begins
At the extreme of day
night begins
The mind, presence, is nothing
yet, it is everything
It has no form and yet
it's formlessness allows for all forms

So in meditation or in thought
remain in the center of gravity of your presence
that is when the meditation transforms into nonmeditation

E ma Ho!

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://cloudhidden.gaia.com — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:23:42 GMT

While I have some knowledge of Tibetan philosophy I have no personal experience with the practices. While it is important to, at some point, focus one's attention on a single path; there are techniques and perspectives offered by other paths that can be beneficial. That said I have a suggestion.

When meditating watch your thoughts instead of the breath. No judgment, no chasing down a train of thought just watch. What you may notice is that the mind is kind of shy. It doesn't like the attention. So much so that it may hide (stop generating thoughts). The "goal" is not to stop the mind. The "goal" is to become aware of the One that is watching to become aware of this pure Awareness pure Consciousness. This is the clear mind the "Great Perfection" that is referred to in Dzogchen. This practice (watching the mind) can be practiced every moment of every day one does not need to sit to meditate. It can be an opened eyed meditation. This is a very subtle practice and requires some discipline but is well worth the effort.

Variations of this practice can be found in many different disciplines.

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://anuradha.gaia.com — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:33:05 GMT

What I've been practicing in my meditations is simply watching/experiencing the breath. I don't think it really matters what the 'object' of concentration is, it can be penetrated and it's essence revealed as 'oneness', for lack of a better word (because we're speaking of the realm where words give way).

The idea of 'diving between thoughts' or breath is lovely and seems to point to that illusive path. Illusive, in that the 'I' which pursues it, needs to cease pursuing before there can be realisation.

'I' is such a funny one, isn't it? Such a 'do-er and achiever' - so utterly 'mortal' and therefore so fearful and clinging. And Fear is the golden key, Guru Life's golden finger pointing the way. When 'I' let's go it 'dies' in order to become infinite.. mmm Guru Life's, Om Om Om...

The intellect knows that which needs to become experiential; intellectual knowledge is not experience... back to the meditation cushion (or presence/awareness). :)

I attended precious teachings earlier this year and I asked a question: re prayer. What emerged from the answer is that praying for enlightenment is the greatest prayer of all.

Oh, another thought has just drifted into my mind!

Background to thought:
I listened to a lovely set of YouTubes by Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo on meditation (they're on my blog) and I became aware I wasn't this (relatively) advanced meditator I though I was, (so healthy to realise these things! ;) when she said something like this:

'when one focuses on an object in meditation, the object must be more clear and vivid in our mind than it is when we're looking at it with open eyes'.

She continued and her words revealed to me that the state of relaxed (very relaxed - so relaxed one can nod off) quiet mind was not IT (far from it!), unless there is complete alertness too.

On a CD I have, the Dalai Lama speaks of that point between being too relaxed and too taut....

And so I started on my 'breathing with (complete) awareness' practice (previously I'd focused only on Emptiness).

Ok, back to the visiting thought:
... then I found I was getting frustrated with myself because my mind was so restless during meditation (because focusing on breath is so simple, its easy to be aware of what else the mind is getting 'up to'). After the newness of the experience started to wear off, I found my mind often hardly stayed with the breath at all!

I spoke to my beloved husband, Gien about this (we meditate together) and he told me to bring the experience/feeling of loving kindness into the practice and it will become easier.

I tried this (focusing for a moment on the precious teacher Geshe-la, whom I'd recently had teaching from, made it easy) and this really helps! After all, love is really the only thing there is!

...ok back to the 'meditation cushion' (presence/awareness). :)

much love

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 23:35:26 GMT

Wonderful, ricosoma!

Love,

Nicole

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://cloudhidden.gaia.com — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:49:08 GMT

It is the supreme irony that what everyone seeks, in one form or another is always only available right here right now in the present Moment. One only need's to focus one's attention on the present Moment. This is such a simple concept that it is overlooked by almost everyone. Instead we clutter our lives with activities and our minds with thoughts always looking somewhere else for fulfillment, for contentment.

The practice of watching the space between 2 thoughts is hardly new. It has been taught by all the Great Ones in some fashion. The mind often falls into the trap of thinking that because a concept is familiar it is understood on an experiential level. There are many wonderful insightful teachers, guides really, around today. We hear their inspiring words and are moved but unless we put those words into practice moment to moment their great words only become intellectual knowledge.

It is so simple really, all we really need to do is "BE HERE NOW".
Letting this happen takes long practice and great discipline. But any one can start right here right now in this moment.

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://mamamissy.gaia.com — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:32:29 GMT

I practice staying in the moment...moment by moment. I am getting better at this, but, am not always successful. Sometimes I can be in the moment and everything slows down around me...I feel like I can see the air...I have only been able to do this a handful of times, but, it has been such a feeling of total bliss...truly awesome.

I am so grateful that there are no time limits on mastering a practice, that it is not a race. Life can be as sweet as I want it to be, or as desperate, my choice.....

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://anuradha.gaia.com — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 17:51:30 GMT

bringing awareness to the space between thoughts is indeed a precious entry point to awareness. The 1st time I heard of this lovely expression was a Deepak Chopra CD. He is so good at explaining complex things in accessible terms
much love
HummingBird

Re: Aware of Awareness?

http://cloudhidden.gaia.com — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:38:41 GMT

Being aware of awareness takes place (at least initially) in the space between 2 thoughts. The thought process can be a hindrance if it takes one's attention out of the present moment thinking about the past or the future. One can only be aware of awareness, conscious of consciousness, in the present moment.

If you are interested in finding out more about awareness and learning how to discipline the mind so that you can be more aware, check out:

http://truthofthepresentmoment.blogspot.com/