Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Hi all…

I wonder if people want to talk about jealousy, in any context (open, monogamous, friendships, etc.), and what we have done to get through it in our lives.

IMO, jealousy happens in all sorts of places. What is the root? What is the cause? What are the ways to consciously and compassionately address it?

I feel that jealousy is a learned element, as in, socially reinforced. There may be elements also of genetics, or at least survival-needs, but I also think that the ways that it appears are telling. Some people get totally jealous about things that seem like not that big of a deal to others.

I also think that jealousy ties in to “scarcity mentality.” I think that a shift of paradigm would remove much of what we think of as a “normal” part of our lives and emotional expression.

What do you all think?

-LaSara
www.lasara.us

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

I suspect jealousy is tied into Separation Conciousness within which we feel less than whole and are looking to be completed by another and generate attachments, conscious and unconscious as to how the other shall think/emote/speak/act, etc…. 

The more I've worked to release attachments to people and thought patterns the freer I feel and walk through the world, without judgements, which is another aspect of jealousy.  Its the judgements/stories we make up about others that generate our pain => jealousy.

Love, Light & Gobs of Laughter,
jeremiah

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Jealousy
Does it have a purpose? Perhaps some would like to think so in order to justify their primitive response to things.

Antidote to jealousy
In a word, consciousness.

We can easily over ride any jealous response by using our consciousness. Do we choose to? NA, not usually. Why? Cause it is nice and comfy in ownership land where the rules are seemingly set in stone and are supported by the powers that be. In a nutshell, we can JUSTIFY our jealous behaviour in ALL SORTS  of ways for many reasons.

On the other hand, to take a conscious decision to be free of such destructive emotions, would be, well, too hard.

Can it be a challenge at times? you bet. Is it worth using conscious choice over being hijacked by painful thoughts? YOU BET.

I have an article written with this very thing in mind if you are interested I can post it here.

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Yeah, please post it. That would be great.

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

I see jealosy as a mental/biological response to the removal or jeopardization of our favorite stimulant. It's kind of like a drug withdrawl. The statement about consciousness seems spot on, jealosy seems to stem from the ego and thus is based on fear of loss. I think someone's ability to overcome jealosy is based on their ability to be masters of the ego, so to speak. As fascinated and engaged as I am about polyamory I know that I'd probably still get a tinge of jealosy. 

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

We all have our addictions / attachments. That we can recognise them for what they are, that in itself is a big first step towards being able to let go, and participate with more conciousness and love. Giving freedom back to another, tearing off the chains that we or others had attached to them, and letting them know that they are able to go, and do, or be whatever they desire…including those chains we place on ourselves…may we all be blessed with the courage to act so…

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

I think the purpose of jealousy in relationships is to remind us that we could lose someone we love. I agree that the antidote is consciousness, but also communication. When I start ot get jeaous I remind myself that if the relationship is meant to work- it will and if it doesn’t than it is not meant to be. Relatioships are tides in our lives- they come and go. The emotions come and go with the tides. Fear and jealousy usually pop up for me when I grow closer to someone. As you develop more intimacy you become more vulnerable to getting hurt and jealousy comes up to remind you that you are vulnerable. I acknowledge the feelings and remind myself that relationships come and go and that I need to just enjoy what has been given and that no relationship last forever and take things one step at a time. I think if jealousy starts appearing in excess it points to a problem that should be discussed with your partner. It is usually just a misunderstanding that can easily be cleared up, but sometimes it is a red flag of a more serious isssue- like cheating or backstabbing- though I think all other options should be ruled out first. Sometimes excessive jealously can just be a sign of incompatibilty of relationship styles/ expectations also. I think these things can easily be discussed without even mentioning the jealous feelings- just making sure that you are on the same page as your partner is usually all it takes.

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

if jealously were just a social phenomena then it could be weeded out and subdued, but jealously usually pops up any- and everywhere. i know when it comes up with me it usually goes along with the fear of losing something, of not having something i want, and/or the realization that anything can be taken away.

i think one way to control jealously is by realizing that the only thing you can truly control is yourself. if it's an outside force then that force is going to do what it pleases no matter what because while you might be able to influence and guide someone/thing in a certain direction, if you try to force to that place it's a good bet that person a/o thing will turn around and give you something you that you would've never expected.

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Abby, I agree that communication is key.  Not talking just leads to stewing, passive aggressiveness, the eventual outburst…

I also second the notion that the only person we can “control” is ourself.  Beyond influence, we cannot make someone bend to our belief who does not want to meet us there.  In my mind, jealousy is a trust issue which either needs to be talked out to re-establish that trust or, if the trust just is not there, the relationship is likely not stable enough to sustain itself.

Just to oversimplify it.  :)

I am not generally a jealous person.  If I feel it at all, it is not because my partner or friend is interested in someone else in some form, but because in that process I am not acknowledged, respected, or if he/she forgets to let me in on why the dynamic between us is changing.  Ideally, I could sit back and meditate my attachment away, but the shocker is…I'm flawed and human and can't always wrangle my mind monkeys at will.  So, I do the best I can in the rare instance in which that comes up.  And try to keep a sense of humor.  That always helps.

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Jealousy is something that I have had a relationship with for as long as I can remember.

As a child I reacted without thought to my feelings of jealousy, and as I became older and more aware of my behavior, as witnessed by others, I grew to feel ashamed of it and developed several strategies for disguising or suppressing its emergence. With regard to my suppression of this powerful emotion, I now realise in retrospect how damaging such a solution was to me overall. In trying to suppress my feeling I would be left exhausted and traumatised, only to experience utter horror in witnessing the subversive ways in which I would act out my jealousy without regard for others.

In later times I embarked on a spiritual odessy aimed exclusively at an absolute state of mind where I would have transcended all notions of duality, hence achieving freedom from suffering not to mention the very uncomfortable state of jealousy. At the high points of this journey I would achieve an almost hysterical state of blissful denial, convinced that all was one and that all my experiences and thoughts were nothing but mere illusion. A term that I heard once, really stuck with me. It was ” the dark side of the light chaser ”
I very much enjoyed this term simply because it struck at the root of an intimate reality, that the greater the light that I chased, the deeper and more penetrating the dark or shadow became. So into the bargain I developed a distinct alter ego, one that encapsulated all of the bits and pieces that I didn’t allow into my pure vision, needless to say jealousy was involved as a peak experience, more painful and strangling a force than ever. I found myself trapped in a polarised position, unable to recover to the previously less extreme state.

Much has changed since then. Yet some things remains the same, and one is the quality of jealousy. Through my latest form of training I have developed an ability to ‘be with’ states. So I practice being with jealousy and being with wanting to transcend it and being with fearing it and being with occationally acting like a prick in reaction to it.

Thats pretty much my tuppence on jealousy.

x

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Anyone willing to share about their jealousy is courageous! But to be willing to sit with it - this is even more brave. I use the phrase “Let jealousy be your teacher” to express the power which lies here. Jealousy has taught me many things, as you say, it has an unfailing way of revealing the shadow. More than anything jealousy has taught me I have a choice. I can let it have its way with me, dragging me kicking and screaming in its wake, or I can choose to love. Love myself, love my beloved, have compersion ….

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

I often find myself taken by jealousy in the most inappropriate situations. I never know why i’m jealous but i just feel inferior to those around me, thus causing me to be jealous. I’m even jealous of my little sister a lot of the time. I have come to indentify this feeling and come to terms with it, like many who deny it. I think that being able to say yes i am jealous of that person allows one to control the feeling better.

One thing i could use help on…
I’ve never had a true relationship before, and i find that when a boy does show interest in me and i in him, that i tend to become jealous extremely easily. I hate it! I have trust issues as well and i think that my inability to fully trust people leads me to feel jealous of any other person he talks to or talks about. I feel so stupid when i get like that. My self esteem is very low too, and that may be another reason my jealousy gets out of hand. I think everyone is smarter, prettier, and more interesting than i am…::sigh::

Sorry to waste the time of anyone who read all this, i’m not sure what my point is. I guess i just want some encouraging words. It’s nice just to talk about things like this sometimes. If anyone has some advice i will definetly take it with an open mind.

thanks! Kelsey

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Hi Kelsey, I appreciate your courage in telling it like it is for you. I've had a lot of jealous times in my life, too. And you've put your finger on the root: low self-esteem. Even the trust issues come from that. So isn't it nice that you have only one thing going, with two side-effects, not three different issues !!!!!

Did you find any of the thoughts or advice or perspectives in this thread helpful? Tajmahalo by the way is a very very famous lady who is a world-class expert in the issue of jealousy around romantic love, so her book that she mentions is probably very helpful, if you are the kind of person who can get help from books.

If you are, you might also check out The Psychology of Self-Esteem by Nathaniel Branden; it's the best book on the subject that I have ever found.

I can see you're so much into self-criticism that you could even feel stupid for feeling stupid !!!! But ya know what? It actually takes a good bit of intelligence to feel that way, no kidding !!!!!!

I have several things to suggest for you. One is, you might be able to find a counselor you like who could be helpful. Second, do your best to not believe or buy into any criticism of you by your peers. Kids can be very cruel, and unfair. Try to have an opinion of yourself which is independent of theirs. Know they can make mistakes, and are being mean to others just because they too have low self-esteem !!!!

Third, if you have heard of compassion, try practicing that toward yourself and and others. Try to be understanding and forgiving of yourself and others. Life just goes better when we do that. Fourth, this is the funnest one, pretend you are your own ideal best friend, and always be noticing and commenting on things you like and admire about yourself !!!!

There will always be women who are smarter and prettier than you. If guys only chose the smartest and prettiest, – well, they don't. You will soon learn many of them are looking for a warm heart, a woman who respects them, a woman with a sense of humor, who has something to contribute to the relationship and doesn't totally depend on him for her self-worth. A woman with a real Self !!!!

Nothing stopping you from becoming that way. You will actually end up far more “attractive” than the pretty faces or the smart minds ! (You can't affect who a guy finds interesting, but you can know that you are interesting, and those who find YOU interesting will find you !!!)

Does any of that make sense?

I know you are already on the way to becoming that kind of woman because of your courage in admitting your jealousy, and your willingness to really look at it, get to know it, understand it, and your desire to move out of it.

You didn't waste our time, you inspired us, and allowed us all to empathize with you, to realize how similar we all are. i hope my words were the “encouraging words” you wanted to hear.

I wish you all the best, feel free to continue to chat here or email me. Reaching out as you did, in this community is so rewarding. Tons of helpful, understanding folks here.
 
Rev. O.M. Bastet

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Kelsey, I forgot to mention. I find it useful to separate jealousy from envy. Jealousy is either-or. It's either me or her. It means what is given to one is taken away from the other. It means I want ME to have the goody instead of HER having it.

Envy is entirely different. It is really a form of admiration. It is both-and. It's both me and her. It means what one has, the other could have also, in addition. It means I want ME to have the same wonderfulness/goody in my life that the other has, and we both could be having it. But like if you envy someone's self-confidence, nothing stopping you from having your own, and that doesn't mean you need to take theirs away in order for you to have what you want. Does that make sense?

Envy doesn't apply when there's only one guy being focused on as the goody, but if you focus on the kind of relationship you want, not just one guy, then you know that you can have just as good a relationship as anyone else, even if it's not this guy, it will be some other. That kinda defuses the jealousy, don't you think?

Blessings, OM Bastet

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Daruma,

Thanks for sharing your story.  Cliches be damned…your experience is “very inspiring.”  It is especially inspiring because it is not just an easy before/after story.  It is gritty and your process always seems to come back to a starting point to reflect on, then have a go at it again with the wisdom you gained from the last time around the block.

All the best to you,

Betty

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Hm. Jealousy. I figure it evolved as a response to possible threats to those you loved and your offspring, thus endangering their chances of survival. Anciently, if you had a family with a few children and another adult came in and tried to take your mate, that would seriously jeopardize your children's long-term possibilities. So, jealousy evolved.

So the emotion is here, but now I think it comes partly from a sense of possession (wrong, I would say) partly from a lack of trust (either with your own partner or the other party) and partly from insecurity. I'm sure there are other contributing factors, but if you truly love yourself and the other party, and fully trust the other party, I don't think jealousy would be an issue. Unfortunately, many people aren't very trustworthy, people's intentions aren't always clear nor admirable, some people do view their significant others as possessions.  And many people aren't taught how to trust, nor taught find people to trust.

Antidotes? Firstly, love yourself. If you love yourself you'll be okay alone, and good people will tend to seek you out. Secondly, really love the person you're with for who they are, and help them to feel that. If they can, they're likely to be happy. People often live up to what you think they are. However, thirdly, be very aware of who and what you're dealing with, and decide whether you're okay with what you have. If you love them for who they are, love them for who they are. If you don't, leave. Jealousy erodes a lot of what is beautiful in people, and if it's hard to avoid jealousy internally, start working on yourself in a situation where you feel non-threatened externally.

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

“People often live up to what you think they are.”

I don't think I would want this to evolve in a relationship… There's a danger of it becoming a way for an individual to base his/her experience of life on - i.e. what other people think of them. It will eventually crash and burn. Codependence is a behavioural pattern that is difficult to recognise and understand. Healing comes with a lot of pain.

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

I agree with your assessment. I would just add that its not a purely human or even primate trait. Other pack animals have the same tendancy. The alpha male, or female in some cases,  highly restricts the contact between lesser  males  and  the females of the group.  Recently I read an article about how apha animals will kill the offspring if they aren't sure if the offspring is theirs.

As you mentioned I do think it has been combined or influenced by greed and possesiveness that I think are unique human traits.

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Hi Everyone,
Id like to let you all know that my book on coping with jealousy,

Compersion: Using Jealousy as a Path to Unconditional Love

is being released as an e-book for Valentines Day - ie in 1 week. I will be emailing weekly excerpts to anyone sends a request to me at taj@lovewithoutlimits.com. I will also give a free download to the first 10 zaadzsters who email me at the address above and mention this offer.
Namaste,
Taj

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

This outstanding thread has been contributed to Collective Wisdom: the Library of Community Threads. Feel free to go there using the link I just gave, and underline how great it is! The subject of the thread would continue to be discussed here, but the thread itself, can be applauded there !!

Blessings, OM Bastet

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

LaSara,

see jealousy the same way as you. One important point for me is however to identiy emotional dissociation on the other side. Keeping ones vulnerablity alive. Not falling into simple immunity.

Albert

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Jealousy is an emotion, a creation of the mind, stemming from the “I”.
It has no purpose but it is a challenge. Like the mind it does not exist in Reality.
The solution is to achieve the elimination of the “I” by non-attachment to the “I” - something achievable by all, and something all will achieve!
Understand this and half the battle is over!
May your journey be a successful one.
:-)
()

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Wow, Ian, interesting approach. I like it.I'm curious to know more about your background. I'll check your profile. Thanks for your contribution.

-LaSara
http://www.lasarafirefox.com

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

I stumbled here from O.M's Collective Wisdom pod - this thread is listed as one worth calling attention to.

I'm not sure if what I have to say is helpful - but perhaps my story can create a bit of a 'resonance' - a kind of vibrational entrainment, so to speak.

Many years ago I was in an 'open' relationship. The man I was with was a lot older than I was - and had been a student of Alan Watts etc. I was cool with this, it all made sense. We didn't talk about the details of being 'open' much - it was the kind of thing that was just accepted. The truth is when we were together we had no interest in anyone else. And we were often apart, thousands of miles apart. During these times I had minor 'flings', and so did he. We were very much in love and good companions.

And then, one day, one of his flings was not so minor.
I was in England, he in the U.S.. He telephoned me to tell me he had fallen deeply in love with someone else. He also told me he still loved me. He was confused and I felt like someone had hit me with a two by four. Emotion poured into my body, rushing through me like a tornado. I could hardly speak. I felt my throat sting and close up, my eyes start to weep. I told him I couldn't talk now, and put the telephone down. I sat there for a moment, not knowing what to do. I got up, and left the house.

It was sunny outside. I walked for a few minutes, still totally taken over by the sensations running through my body, the strong desire to weep uncontrollably and to fight with tooth and nail what was 'happening to me'.

And then, the thought came: “I don't have to feel this way.”

The thought made total sense. I couldn't fight the thought. It was not a lie. And then, within moments, all the emotions and sensations left my body.

I have never forgotten this experience, although it was over 20 years ago. I'm not saying I haven't felt jealous since then, but something is different for me. I know that jealousy is a 'state', something that is not necessary to feel. Now I may feel it, I may not be able to let the sensations go as quickly as I did then, but they don't have the same hold over me. I can 'watch' them. It is as if there is a distance between myself and the sensations, or perhaps it is more truthful to say there is just a 'distance'. Something (who? I don't know) just watching, with love, not pushing the experience away, not saying it's 'wrong'. Just watching. The sensations are not 'who I am'. They are simply there.

I presently live in a moment by moment monogamous relationship. This means we do not have any contracts or expectations, but that the relating to this point has been a moment by moment choice to be with this person. There have been (short) times when I've fallen in love with other men ( twice ), and my partner has gone through similar feelings to what I describe above. We talk about it, share, and take another look, do we still want to be together? So far, the answer has always been yes. The fact that we do not have 'rules' against feeling attracted to others or even following up on the attractions seems to lessen the jealousy triggers.

Love,

Sandra

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

Wow, Sandra, what an incredibly beneficial spinoff from putting this into the Collective Wisdom pod. I could describe what you did as essentially cut through the mythical Gordian Knot, bypassing any need for reasoning it out, for endless conversations, for exercises in building your self-esteem. [Though of course the latter might still be useful.]

You just exercised what might be called your free-will choice, not to “believe” your feeling, or “buy into” your feeling, or “identify with” your feeling, and thus you rendered it powerless over you, and it naturally faded away.

A personal story is worth a thousand words of therapy, so entrain away, you have uplifted us all !!!!

Gratefully,
OM Bastet

Re: Jealousy, its purpose and its antidotes.

:-) Thanks OM.
Hubby is just reading Jill Bolte Taylors book, “My Stroke of Insight” and reading me the good bits ( well, it sounds like all of it is good) - one thing she writes about is how the body triggers chemicals in response to a trigger - (anger, fear, etc), and that these chemicals will leave the body in 90 seconds unless they are perpetuated by thoughts & actions that buy into them…

Certainly is my experience.

(we are of course, talking about emotional triggers, not a real life situation e.g. a raging tiger is attacking you, in which case you need those chemicals!)



Love,

Sandra