Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

I'm moving this section from another thread.  This deserves a great deal of input and research! 
My response was intense due to the interruption of a conversation about extremely Dark Shadow to make this point.  I don't believe its necessary to do that.  This inquiry is valid in it's own right and should be made in the Right Quadrant sections without denying the validity of other inquiries. 

~Ww

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

even this nutritional approach to ‘fixing' us is theory. do we really know it will fix us?

and ken wilber would disagree that his findings about shadow are theory. they are based on scientific surveys!!!! LOL (laughing at kw, not you)

actually, i'm all for nutritional info and action to get vital nutrients to the masses of all the earth. it is one of my burdens. and yet, i'm not ready to give energy to that service. my real passion is to get the masses to the vital nutrition.

it is my opinion that until we return to the wild garden that the consciousness of the food we eat won't be as vital as we need to generate the evolution of the species into one that doesn't quickly destroy the planet's skin.

we are a skin cancer of earth, with crusty sores, called cities. and a multi-dimensional well-fed corporate military that uses psychology and computer and various other ultra-high end technologies that has been able to ‘accidentally' take us out for decades with many close calls. and if they don't take us out they will enslave us and for all intents and purposes have enslaved an overwhelming majority.

so listening to my bodymind for new clues as to what, if anything, can actually fix the situation into a relatively sustainable vital synergy is my current drive. and what i find is that i need to own this shadow. i am the cancer. i am the corporate military, among my other many facets.

i thank you for knowing how you want to be of service, and doing it, and challenging me to do the same.  we are on the same team. 

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

welcome vivi-mari,

where it appears that individuals were able to break free (tho, i‘m not sure this is the term i would use) from the collective shadow, now, a potential critical mass of folks are now breaking free (in the form of owning up to the shadow, in order to be able to control it from a state of collective awareness, as opposed to collective denial). acknowledging and owning the predator (and all the other shadows we condemn), we find a source of personal power that is… empowering to a higher degree.

i have a physics-adapted view of bodymind. the spirit and the physical body are never separated. they are fused as one. but like in physics, sometimes the energy behaves more like a wave or vibration or spirit and sometimes it behaves more like an object of mass. both are happening at the same time. but one appears to be in control, or not, depending on the way we look at the interactions.

i sure would like to improve my diet. last night i did! i made a vegan soup, simmering brussels sprouts, kale and celery hearts, then i add soy sauce or/and spices or/and whatever to fit my mood. it’s delicious. i make enough to last a couple days. it’s been too long since i made this.

gotta go, big weekend, a shadowwork training!!!

hope to connect more with you,

jackii

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

i definitely have had more trouble finding that motivation to eat correctly; both alone and with other people (because so often the other people aren't aware of the power of healthy eating either). but when with the influence of non-nagging health-conscious people it seems easy to stay focused.

i would like to invite you to look at the shadow behind “i absolutely don't hate my body”. i'm going to look at my own shadow there, because this is something i would be likely to say. so, in the spirit of bringing to consciousness this denied thought…

i hate my body. i am my own worst offender of hating my body. i wish i was dead! grrrrrr. i'm an idiot.

lol, that is enlightening for me, to admit something i'm hiding from people and from myself.

that is the point, as i see it, of shadowwork. bringing to consciousness my repressed thoughts, in order to use that energy for productive purposes, as opposed to using it for repressing the thoughts which come and go like clouds, unless they are repressed.

it's quite weird tho, the law is such that anyone who allows themselves to be honest about their shadow is now labeled as dangerous. the law supports that the shadow be contained in a pressure cooker until it (the repressed thought) explodes in the very action they are trying to repress.

on the collective plane (the we quadrant), this could be the reason for war, ethnic cleansing, racism, sexism, homophobia, heterophobia, etc. it's like the u.s., and it's allies, and our enemies, we all refuse to admit we are a war-based people. but we can't stop our war-based behaviors. perhaps we just need to release our holding onto our illusions about how ‘good' we are. : ) we are predators, and always have been.

when i admit i'm a predator then i can use that predator energy for preying on what i really am hungry for. living a life of loving interdependence that is all-inclusive.

bit of a paradox, there.

of course, i could be wrong. : ) 

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Hi, Vivi-Mari!!

Yay!  I finally made back it to this thread! 

Tell me how this feels:

I spotted the footprints of your Shadow on the body thing.  I'll show you.  The Shadow isn't the hatred of your body.  That's the repressed emotion.  The Shadow is the hatred of your repressed emotion.  It's the feeling about the feeling that gives you away, here:

“I'm totally appalled to see how people in general eat, and can't understand how they can imagine that the body would survive such negligent treatment.”

The phrase “totally appalled” tells me that if you ate poorly or neglected your body, you would be “appalled” at yourself.  Why suffer through the feeling of being appalled at yourself when you can repress that feeling?  Feeling internally divided like that is a very difficult feeling to tolerate for very long.  It makes it difficult to make decisions and move forward in life because it disrupts your sense of eligability for a better life. 

And a sure sign of Shadow is incredulity towards others.  The phrase “can't understand” tells me that there is literally a blind spot around how people treat their bodies with food and whatnot.  Lack of understanding means you can't put yourself in their shoes and see what life is like from their perspective.  You've completely walled off that p.o.v. from your own personal repertoire. 

And then there is the totally unconscious phisical destruction that is “happening to you”. 

“I suffer from physical ailments”

This will be the most difficult to connect with emotionally.  It's far far away from you now, where it can't hurt you emotionally.  But it's definitely hurting you physically. 

Don't quibble about how it presents.  Not wanting your shrink to be right isn't about your shrink or you, it's about retroflection (projecting your own self-hatred about your hatred of your body onto him).  He's (hopefully) holding the space open for you to not hate yourself for your own hatred of your body.  But you may not be ready to stop hating yourself about that yet.  If he wants to work on not hating your body right away, don't let him.  Tell him to help you hate your body with gusto for a while until you're sick of it and are ready to change on your own.  That's the most urgent thing to work on.  This is what jackii is doing here:

“i hate my body. i am my own worst offender of hating my body. i wish i was dead! grrrrrr. i'm an idiot.”

Good job, jackii!  If you need to do more of that, go for it!

I think the next most important part to work on is how this got started.  This is when you get to do the archaeology.  Where did you hear the message that you must take care of your body or else? 

“…the nutritious viewpoints are deeply seated in my very marrow.”

What kind of heat was applied if you didn't do as you were instructed?  What was going on with this other person that made them such a health nazi?  How else would a small child interpret such heat?  What other choices did you have? 

“At one point I lost interest in eating though, and sure it could be sign of depression and it probably is that too, but I also think it's got to do with a realization that eating isn't what make us happy on a deeper level.”

Is this the way such responsibility feels to a small child:

“I feel that it's in the way and a heavy burden to carry around”

“How could they possibly understand the more existential dimension of my physical limitations and feelings of frustration because the body is in the way and I have to carry it around like a bag of potatoes… Oh yes I wish it was a bag of Christmas gifts instead :-). So I don't hate it from the point of view of its potential, I think it could be a great tool. At least I think I think so? But so far it hasn't really provided with much fun, it's more like a troublesome kid that I have to love because it's part of me but it has to be fed and taken care of all the BLOODY time!”

Okay, if that doesn't feel right, let me know.  Try it on, look in the mirror, see how it fits, walk around in it for a while, etc.  Text is really helpful for this kind of work because it's all there on record what you yourself said.  All you have to do is  follow the footprints backwards.

Blessings and love to you.

~Ww

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Something's wrong.

~Ww

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

in the dual world, something is right, and therefore something is wrong.

in the non-dual world, something is Something is something.  of course, i could be wrong.

lol

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

if you stick around, you will return the favor, as i project plenty without recognizing my own shadow. don't be afraid to do so. i'll prolly get defensive and lash out, and then you can see beyond my forum personality. i'm not all christmas gifts, either.

i do think that a lot of psychologists get it, however the ruling majority feel a need to protect themselves from the collective shadow (malpractice stuff).

for me the eating and exercising issue has turned into a search for like-minded folks, who are ready to allow me to participate with them in the intention to do this right. and that means putting up with the learning process, which includes my/our shadow behavior. you are welcome to do this with me now, and that will be another step for both of us. however, my intention is to live with warriors, similar to the ones described in the books of carlos castaneda. in my interpretation, they used intention in such a practical and inspiring way.
my main concern is that the people i choose (and myself) don't nag about what we're doing wrong, instead that we practice staying focused on what we are doing right.

for you now, i would suggest that you try to do a shadow piece. split out the predator and victim, give them voices and see what happens (maybe some other voices will be triggered). you don't have to post it, but you might want to. there are several shadow pieces in this forum that Ww and i and others have done that give a feel of what i'm talking about.

now i've got to get back to finding the source of this physical smell of a decaying dead animal that has been in my computer's space for about a day. : P i wish i had a dog's nose to seek it out. it seems so close and nauseating. why can't i find it?????

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

i'm having difficulty finding a response that satisfies my desire to say something meaningful.  i'll go with this, just to let you know i'm trying.

from the standpoint of being connected to infinity, everything you say is true for me, and the opposite of what you say is equally true.  that goes with anything anybody says, of course. 

so even in infinity and paradox, health is still an issue for me.  even tho it is not critical, it is.  because i'm ready and sincerely desirous to be my most vital.  playfulness is very important to me, which is why i like freestyle dancing for exercise.  i also like playing in almost every physical way, deeply reacquainting myself with my inner child.  it do have an adult that likes to play, too.

i'm willing to co-research various health strategies with you.  i think it might be best to do it one to one in z-mail. 

castaneda's books are tricky, because don juan might give the implication that he's all about native american (yaqui) teachings (with a heavy emphasis on power plants, or drugs) , and then a couple of books later he says that he was just baiting carlos with that stuff to keep him interested.  and that what he is really about is impeccable physical-spiritual health.

anyway, i want to keep trying to investigate whatever is interesting.

i made another vegan soup, and that makes me feel like i'm making progress.  and my meditations and dreaming are as strong as ever.

the smell cleared up on its own.  i thought i looked everywhere, so ??? i don't know.

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

it's easy for me to admit i don't have answers for other people.  that doesn't mean i can't work with them to help them find their own answers.

it's hard to deny that some events happen, like miracles of health.  so in those cases the body, or perhaps multi-dimensional beings for us, work with the energy to create workable nutrition from what was previously considered non-nutritious. 

and yeah, just taking more responsibility for my nutrition seems like the best idea.  sometimes i do that, but when i don't there are other reasons from the intuitive mind (often shadowed) that took over.  so i try to honor those choices, whether i make them or someone i know makes them.  i learned that the strongest from byron katie.  have you read or heard any of her teachings?

there's a paradox here, of course, when the intuitive mind is completely fed up with honoring myself and others, and even itself.  that is very shadowy times.  it's the time when i wonder why i have ever uttered any advice to anybody. 

i'm going to jump around here, and go back to the subject of the warrior.  when people come together with intention as warriors, a lot more energy is stirred up than when one person uses warrior energy.  it's sobering.  or should be.

there is a four-quarter approach that seems to work well for these communions.  the warrior is one quarter, the lover, the magician, and the soveriegn are the other three quarters.  each quarter is a thesis unto itself.  the nutshell summation is that the lover feels and lives with emotions, the warrior deals in energy that gets things done, the magician deals in logistics, and the soveriegn heals and blesses and stays in touch with the vision.  so it is a balancing act, individually and collectively.

so anyway, getting back to us working together to improve our individual and collective personal power, we start from where we are.  i don't know too much about you, and vice versa, so let's keep to basics.  physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, and thus spiritually, we can only start from where we are.  but we also need a vision for where we are going to be.  an intention to get there.   and a safe approach to get there in a way that is as efficient as possible.

for me, the concept of dancing is the way that appeals to me.  from a physical standpoint it has many solid benefits.  dancing (and by this i mean freestyle dancing) starts the body moving, which helps circulation.  dancing slowly moves the body while listening to the body, and with this feedback, i can adjust my practice to deal with the issues that arise, stiffnesses and pains.   dancing is fun self expression.  dancing uses the body in the most diverse of ways.  twisting, flowing, power and balance movements cross-train the body extremely efficiently.  dancing is an easy way to start from where we are and start getting tangible results   dancing can be done alone or with as many people as are interested, in any space available.

eating correctly, is something that can be done more efficiently with a group.  i'm looking for this in my life, but i haven't been able to maintain a relationship with folks of this mind, yet.  so i do the best i can, where i am.

jumping back to the predator/victim dilemma, for me, those are two poles of the same emotional structure.  i never expect to get rid of either, so i just accept that i am both at the same time.  i went through a time when i was sick and tired of dealing with both of those sides of myself, and it was only when i started consciously exercising them that i started to appreciate both manifestations of them in me and in my life.  it sounds like you have an equally solid approach, so i don't feel that you need to make a change.  your connection to the universe though maybe be asking for (or demanding) one.  in that case, what you are doing, investigating your options, is right.   and so you're drawn to shadow work, among other options, so practice your shadow work.   expose you darkness to yourself and be true to your whole self.  you're an evil bitch!!!  : )  and a saint.  and everything in between.

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

i can't find any statement i said that implied that your contact with the universe may be lacking.  i'm not saying i didn't write it, just that i can't find it.  but it doesn't sound like me to say that.  i firmly believe that everyone has a completely and perfectly fused connection to the universe.  sometimes that connection is felt like lack of connection, but that is the illusion. 

nervousness, fear, and overwhelming stress are part of everyone's connection.  they never go very far away from me, but with practice with i've been better at welcoming the irritation and confusion, and not losing focus of my connection, at the same time, to their opposite, extreme relaxation and bliss. 

i'm not saying that i haven't lost my feeling of connection, - i have lost it, and plenty of times.  and i'm not saying that i won't in the future ever lose that feeling of connection.  all i'm saying is i feel i'm getting better and stronger as i exercise that muscle.  also, what i'm saying is that i feel a deep empathy for your immersion in your dilemma.   i also want to thank you for choosing to work on yourself in what i judge to be a sincere and practical way. 

i am aware that whatever choices you make, whether you understand the pieces of the universe in a similar way as me, or not, your choices are exactly right for you. 

my take on the predator is not that it is negative or positive, it is energy.  it is my personal energy that i can accept or deny in myself.  if i accept and own it, i can use it consciously.  if i deny it, then it goes into shadow and still runs my life from there.  same with victim energy.  i am the entire universe, to infinidimensional infinity. 

polyamorism is unique to every situation.  in my version, it is about honesty, mainly to myself, and almost as importantly to my relationships.  if i'm attracted to two people at the same time, why should i deny myself.  and if a close partner of mine becomes attracted to another, why should i deny that of them.  there's so much more to it, and a lot of it is currently hypothetical, as i am single, which is very pleasant, and i'm in no rush to change that.  i am very aware when i'm attracted to someone or some established polygroup though.  lol  then i try to find a way to bring up my four conversation method. 

thanks for the nutritious conversation.

i watched the peaceful warrior movie (for the second time in three days) tonight.  lots of good stuff in that for me.

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

“I agree that dancing is good, provided you have already a flow of energy to put into circulation. I sometimes do it as part of my daily exercise but it's rare that I feel joyous enough for that.”

i don't always feel joyous when i dance.  it actual is just as effective to dance when i feel hate, fear, apathy, etc., because it starts energy moving by expressing it.  i've started dancing anger, and had it turn to self mocking humor, and then a deep loving of infinity.

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

“I agree that dancing is good, provided you have already a flow of energy to put into circulation. I sometimes do it as part of my daily exercise but it's rare that I feel joyous enough for that.”

i don't always feel joyous when i dance.  it actual is just as effective to dance when i feel hate, fear, apathy, etc., because it starts energy moving by expressing it.  i've started dancing anger, and had it turn to self mocking humor, and then a deep loving of infinity.

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

My most humble apologies, I did misread your message! It said “It sounds like you have an equally solid approach, so i don't feel that you need to make a change.  your connection to the universe though maybe be asking for (or demanding) one.” which is something totally different of course. Guess I was questioning my own connection to the universe .-). It happens. Yet it looks like something major is moving in my life, something is defenitely going to shift. Finally!!! You said many interesting things that make a lot of sense, and I'll have to get back to it tomorrow because it's way beyond my bedtime. The dance thing is very true, one should turn it around backwards, just like exercise on a bad day helps. As for the polyamorism, incidentally I find myself caring quite a bit for two men, and I don't know what the point is but I doubt the solution is to keep them both in my life on the same level. People don't usually settle for such a solution, which is understandable since we are humans with feelings. Don't know how it works for you but would like to know. I can post a question in the right thread though. Gosh, challenges just keep coming… but when real love comes too it's a sign that the path is far gone already. See you later ok? :-))) Vivi-Mari 

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Ww,  you were the one that told me not to press the reply to thread button, weren't you?  otherwise, the post has to be searched for, half way to the top of the thread.  oh it was so hard to find.  and of course so wonderful to read.

anyway, i really don't feel a need to express anger, fear, depression, and the predators and victims, all that often.  but thanks to shadow work, when the need arises, it is so awesome to be able to express it and not feel shame for having it, and just putting it out there, and not hiding it from myself or others. 

i suppose i could do it more, but if my body isn't ready, forcing it really doesn't work for me.

the other night tho, i was really angry with the image in my head of my father.  and all night long i found myself killing him with daggers, and punching the image of his face and body.  and it was a great release that part of me enjoyed and part of me didn't really understand.  i couldn't find a logical reason as to why i was holding that much hate.  but taking the night as a opportunity to examine my mind, i accepted that i must have a real reason for hating.  and having allowed myself to appreciate my hate, i haven't had near as much resentment for him.

Vivi-Mari,

no need for apologies, you are doing fine, actually much more aware than a whole lot of folks i've encountered.  i'm quite amazed at the amount of people that hear something in what people write on the internet and hold on to their misunderstandings.  NO!!!! it's not a mirror for me!!!!!   lol

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

LOL

I didn't push “reply to thread”.  I pushed “reply to post” from the post right above it.  It is burried deep inside the thread because I'm a late-comer.  I found the post that I thought was the starting place and went from there.  It's easier to find the new stuff if you use the “recent posts” link instead of going into the discussion itself.

Sorry, man.  I know I can be a pain.

Gotta go.  Sick today. 

Blessings to you guys.

~Ww

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Oh, good.  I'm glad we're okay.

Oh, yeah.  That added dimension of guilt for possibly having damaged yourself is an extra layer.  Very rich.  When you talk about it, it sounds very much like you're talking about another person.  Saint Francis did that too, I think.  He called his body, “Brother Ass” because for a long time he thought of it as his personal beast of burden.  Until he did damage it too much and then he recognized his mistake and really regretted it.  Poor thing. 

Blessings to you.

~Ww

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

vivi-mari,

i can relate to much of a hopeless feeling of being trapped.  during one of my shadow work pieces at my men's group.  i wanted to feel my anger at being trapped.  i had the four strongest guys hold down my wrists and ankles to the floor.  and when i went to growl and scream in anger, that energy turned into a laughing scream of insanity, which surprised me.  i felt the energy of a wild human-ish spirit being, who is immortal and at the same time stuck in a prison.  but that animal knew it will outlive it's bonds.  and it knew those bonds were still strong and not about to break for some time.  yet inevitably they will break and this time will be seen in the past.

for me, i usually need more than one form of attack to fight the feeling of hopelessness.

one of my ways is visualize myself as not hopeless as often as i can.  right before bed and/or first thing in the morning, i imagine that i'm an pro-active effective person.  i feel the confidence and reality of it.

another thing i do is a practice of connecting spiritually with the healing grid.  i envision that i'm giving my intent and energy to the various global healing network of spirit.  some people put me down as an ineffective healer for not doing something concrete, but i do what spirit asks me to do.  and when spirit brings me something concrete to do, i do that, but in the mean time i give my healing to the earth.

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies

everything ww writes has deep truth.  she is very perceptive.  the same is true of you.

the hating hate spiral is deflating, and learning to love hate (even loving hating of hate) is quite a challenge for many.  only the very superior people can do it.  lol

Re: Shadow, Nutrition and Natural Remedies