My orientation

Hummm…North to top?.
Yea that's it: North to top.
The best coffee is black.
Good whiskey is taken straight.
In the morning the sun comes up in the east. ( I am real sure about that one)
Red sky at night, sailor's delight
Red sky in morning, sailors take warning.
Death and taxes are the only sure things in life.
No body gets out of this life alive.
I get to practice kindness! (which makes my life have meaning)
and..If it doesn't improve on the silence, don't say it.

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I have no sense of direction. Get lost going around the block. And to me, North is always where I am headed as the horizon is always an upward climb visually … And I often wonder what the genetic “advantage” is of not having a sense of direction or cognitive maps … perhaps it is the taking of me to unknown destinations …

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I'll bet that this thread is not about mapping at all.  Yes I was in a playful mood this morning. I don't call myself hahayana for nothing. But seriously….

I got a question from a Bnet member by private message. The gist of it was why did I choose Tibetan Buddhism , as there are many schools of thought. Here is my response (edited slightly).

That is a good question. I was raised in a very Roman Catholic family. At an early age I became interested in other paths, and studied many “religions”, met many dedicated, sincere people. I discovered that “there is no religion higher than Truth” and decided to pursue from there. In the Bhagavad Gita there is a famous quote: Krishna says to Arjuna that “all paths lead to Me”. The more I studied the more I found that there is a kernel of Truth at the heart of every religion.

Without sounding trite, it is kind of preferring chocolate ice cream to strawberry ice cream. Both are ice cream. Truth is Truth.

As to how I was lead to Tibetan flavor. I had a beloved friend who was deeply into Vajrayana path. I mentioned her in my profile Ruth-La. (Blessings on her memory). She introduced me to information that at the time you could not get here in USA. It felt very natural to me, and in many ways reminded me of my early RC upbringing (old school). It also resonated with my own experiences. Now there are Lamas in every major city, and the Dalai Lama is practically a national hero. There is abundant information on the internet and in books you can buy with minimal effort.

My sweet wife and bride is very into druid/wiccan/native american shamanism. We get along great. My son is sincerely into Rastafarianism. I have a little trouble with all the smoking, but he is sincere and honest about it. He was raised to choose his own path when he found one.

The determined seeker will find the path that is right for them. When the student is ready a teacher will appear. You just have to be wise enough to recognize him/her. Best wishes on your quest.

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I was also raised Catholic, Hahayana. A theological assertion of the Church is while we have free will, God has Perfect Will. In this spirit, I find that choice diminishes as awareness increases. Choice diminishing, kindness increases as awareness.

I have no idea what my own orientation is. I find that from nothingness come kindness, affirmation, love, acceptance, selflessness, and goodness. We might call this the timeless moment devoid of those parameters of physics.

There was a Tibetan Buddhist (was it Tulku?) who wrote of the Universal Communiqué. Being free, at every moment all speaks to us, transcending its apparent object nature as Mystery. Within the “pointless point,” here is peace and wisdom.

Much happiness to you, my brother!  

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 I thought I knew what my direction was/is. Turns out my mind has been flipped multiple times lately and I question everything. I was proved incorrect when I thought I knew; and given blessings when I spoke with out thinking.

  I was raised Irish Catholic; like RC, but a bit more crazy about God. I taught religious education to 2nd graders when I was 16. I was asked to leave because of my persistence in questioning everything. Oops….


  I have done a fair bit of traveling in my time; and in doing so I have met all types of people. I find the most peace in Taoism and Buddhism, but experience a fair amount of trouble while attempting to practice. I am extremely passionate about humans in general. I am also an Indigo child and a healer.

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See post in “Why am I here?”
Smile and wink ;-)
H

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Fully accept what you be at every moment, Kate! Few are those who realize this.

If something is unnecessarily difficult - something is wrong!  lol :O)

You are perfect just as you are NOW!

Allow yourself to flow, adventure, and experiment!

Sean

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My only reply is that the path that I am on and have been on must be at least in the right direction.  Trying to change it is not possible without pain of knowing that I must not change my direction.  It has always be so for me.  Raised  in what I would call “unconscious” Catholicism, made me look harder into myself and to what I wanted and needed.  I read and studied and sought out others who seemed to have a knowing of self.  I followed this and now my own path that kept me close all those years, now has shown me a more perfect way of thinking and loving.  I was taught kindness and to be kind by my parents both of whom were such amazing teachers.  Never do I remember an unkind word from either of them.  Their joy was is giving.  Their door was always open and their hearts were full of love..  That love was returned to them in abundance.  I knew then, as I know now, I was heading the right way.  I learned that to love means that being hurt is a risk.  That risk I still take without reservation.  The blessings returned do outweigh any risk of pain.  Love is love and to be kind is such an easy thing to do.  We follow kindness everyday whether we notice or not.  Kindness follows kindness.  Be kind, not just for the sake of others, but for your self.  You will always find your center of orientation in life as the place you have searched for, if you walk with love and in kindness.  You will always have a smile in your heart and hear your own song in your soul.
Seek that peace, it is right in front of you if you just look.  The way will be shown to you.

Seek your dharma—Eve

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Eve, how lucky you were/are to have such parents!

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Not for any reason,  but a laugh and a smile–my happy Hahayana–you do not drink coffee!!!

And so I am right now, having coffee, as the dessert I spoke of needs a strong cup of coffee to make it completely happy!   I mentioned to Hamilton that the dessert I made was a decadent semi-sweet Godiva chocolate mousse with freshly baked Madeleines on the side.  A little known fact about our Happy Hahayana is his weakness for Godiva chocolate.  You were thought of as I was so enjoying it and smiled as it was a light as a feather and so gooooood!!!  The coffee and those Madeleines were just the finishing touch!!!!

Hope dinner was nice—Eve

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my orientation is missing

when i try to locate myself
i am lost

but when i just let it go
im already there

so i never know where i am at

love

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:O)

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What is my orientation? That's hard to tell for the most part. My problem was that I was more interested in security and having the “right” beliefs than I was in having my own relationship with God.
One one end of the spectrum I've read a lot about world religions and, while fascinated by what I was reading, still lived in fear of what some people would think about me if they knew that I could not just accept what (some) Christian Churches taught. I was reading books on Buddhism, Taoism, and even Wicca/Paganism while attending a Christian church and thinking “if only I can convince these people I believe like them (I did not), then they will accept me, and my life will finally begin to be OK”. In my life I have considered three faiths as being a path: Christianity, Wicca/Paganism, and Zen Buddhism. But then I was afraid that I would make “the wrong choice”.
When the many bad choices that I made landed me in a Christian faith-based drug/alcohol rehab (Salvation Army), I was very confused. I was (at the time) attending a Unitarian church and was seriously considering Wicca/Paganism or Buddhism (for my path), but NOT Christianity. But I had a counselor who talked about both Christianity and Buddhism and made me think twice about my many misconceptions about the Christian Faith (I was only familiar with the Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell variety). And I was not kicked out of the Salvation Army because (at the time) I considered myself a Pagan.  
At the age of Thirty (six months after leaving the Salvation Army), I did become a Christian, but that was (and still is) a private matter. It's private in the sense that I'm still very interested in Zen Buddhism as well, and I still have a very warm place in my heart for Wicca/Paganism, especially Celtic Paganism. It will always be a part of me no matter what path I choose. I'm have no desire to “convert” others, but to be of service to them.
And besides, one doe's not have to have a formal religion in order to be of service.

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Hi David, and welcome to Silent Temple blog!  :O)

You are reminding me of Thomas Merton in some ways!  :O)

Maybe you should read some Merton so you don't feel so alone.

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To begin acquaintance with Merton, perhaps the below statement/internet site The Real Thomas Merton, written by a longstanding friend of Thomas' and also much valued friend of mine, William Knight, might be a good starting place.

http://www.therealmerton.com/

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It's interesting that you should mention Thomas Merton because I once bought his book “Wisdom of the Desert” to a Christan church group (quite a few years ago, I was still in college) and got a somewhat negative reaction from one of the people in my discussion group. He said something along the lines of “but do they believe in Christ?” in a very angry tone of voice as I was telling the group about what the book was about. Actually, I sometimes ran into the same thing in the Salvation Army during my stay there, but I also ran into some people (such as my counselor) who taught my to look beyond theology, as well as people who showed me that I can walk in the Christian faith and still have freedom to think and not worry about what others will think of me.
This is only my opinion, but I think that freedom scares people, because when you are not fallowing “the party line” then you have nothing to go back upon but your own integrity (or lack thereof) when things go wrong. I used to use The Bible and “being a Christian” to justify my own selfish behavior (a friend of mine is fond of saying “when I was right, I was right. But when I was wrong, I was a Christian”). I knew how to talk the talk, but walking the walk, that was a different story. And once my house of cards fell down, it was down.
Anyway, I've just taken the Thomas Merton book “Seeds” of of my bookshelf, and I have other Merton books that I have not read in some time, so thank you for you comments :)

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Hi David,

The people who hurt your heart are in what we call the Concrete Operational stage of cognitive development. You are at least in the Formal Operational stage.

Piaget's stages outline:

http://honolulu.hawaii.edu/intranet/committees/FacDevCom/guidebk/teachtip/piaget.htm

No matter what you try to present to them on an abstract level, they will not understand.

Much happiness to you,

Sean

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Also for you, David:

http://www.hundredmountain.com/Pages/pageone_stuff/mertonpages_fall00/merton_fall00.html

Brahman-Atman

I am practicing Brahman-Atman, which is all about unity, having a functional relationship with God, working to cultivate a relationship that is ever-evolving enlightenment being something that continues forever, though there are levels that a person must progress thru to reach knowledge of the truth.

Even after finding the truth, the task becomes living it, manifesting the Divine will more and more, a great task and one that would require you to be perfect to finish, but perfection to me is merely an ideal, not a goal that can be reached.

Re: Brahman-Atman

This is a good practice. Look forward to your posts, Daniel.

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My orientation is like a ball floating down a mountain stream…

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:O)

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I know, it all sounds terribly contrived. It's like stealing someone else's Mescalito song… Perhaps  it would be good to say that orientation is a word that fails to describe reality in an accurate way…

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Lucid,

Why are you making this connection between orientation and failing to describe reality? :O)

ST

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You caught that one, did you? It's good to stay vigilant : )

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I suppose that the word “orientation”, or any word for that matter, fails to describe reality. I am using the word “reality” in the sense of direct experience. To have an orientation is to have a definite position, whether one looks at the issue through physics or philosophy. If I look at the moon from where I'm standing, then what is my position, and what is the moon's position? Our positions are relative to one another. WIthout the concept of me or a moon, there would be no orientation. If one looks at an object like the moon or a star from a certain orientation or position, then can they say that this is the true orientation of the moon? Of course not, because it can be perceived from infinite positions, it does not have a fixed orientation. Orientation depends on an objective position or state of being in relation to the world, hence it becomes a thought, or a unit of measurement between “I” and “not I”. If one directly experiences the world, they are one with everything. They are the Tao, and it cannot be described in any way or any orientation, position, etc. If one were to descrive a common pebble's orientation, one would have to describe the process of the entire universe.

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Lucid,

This is what I intuited you were realizing but wanted to wait and see, hearing what you had to say. Thank you very much! Wonderful explanation.

Yes, I feel within emptiness, realizing emptiness, orientation is not central to higher realization. However, we cannot say that orientation is not a psychological aspect of emptiness … a manifestation of consciousness at times or within a particular stage of consciousness - an aspect of the universe.

It is my feeling that objectivity is really a form of subjectivity, although usually not related to as such.  Just another form of subjective expression and understanding. Why not?  :O)

ST

 

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“You caught that one, did you? It's good to stay vigilant : )”


laughing

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For most of my life, my orientation has been how to find a way to flow around and past obstacles and confrontations. Sometimes a raging tidal wave was called for, other times a mere trickle sufficed, keeping me unnoticed and unremarked by the opposing force. The best times were when the tides just ebbed and rose instinctively, moving away from the obstacle without even taking the time to consider whether or not it was even necessary to be forceful.
It grew wearying.
My orientation now is to be as restful as possible, with myself and with others.

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Amrita,

Yes, restful … :O)

How are you restful?

ST

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ST asked “how are you restful?”

I think I listen more now, not just to what is spoken but what is unspoken. I try to be slow to speech and quickly responsive when compassion prods me to reach out to someone. I hope that I'm refining my skill at communication, using amiable, companionable silence as a language instead of filling the air with unncessary chatter.

If you'd known me 5 years ago you would have known a prickly pear!

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Amrita, I think I am following you. I have a friend, Eveleen, who listens to people all the time.  Always, she is looking around the words, looking into a region inside the person who is speaking to her. Maybe you should consider that you have a gift also in this way.

ST

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Being a life-long mountaneer, i understand “orientation” as a position relative to the points of a compass. My own well traveled compass is ever pointing the way to truth, but it is a strange compass that points in two directions at the same time: within and without. Hmmm…It's as if I'm already here <grin>

I have discovered truth in many places… and non-places… and have come to realize the obvious:

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Beautiful, Kecia!

What is it we say? … To a Christian, not everyone is a Christian. To a Muslim, not everyone is a Muslim.  To a Hindu, not everyone is a Hindu. To a Jew, not everyone is a Jew. But to a Buddhist, everyone is a Buddha - even a bug!

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Yes, exactly, Sean! =)=)=)

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Well, I can't say anything for the other religions, but as far as Judaism is concerned this comparison is off the mark.

Yes, to a Jew not everyone is a Jew, but to a Jew there is a Divine Spark of the Holy in everyone (and every thing, including bugs); which, because the Jewish concept of God is ultimately non-dual (one of the names of God is Ayin which means Nothingness), is equivalent (to my mind) to saying there is Buddha nature in everyone.

As a corollary, I could also say that to a Buddhist not all ritual is Buddhist ritual, so in that sense it is no different from other spiritual paths.

I am no longer a strictly practising Jew, but I just wanted to set the record straight.

Namaste,

David

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Working hard on that one, David?  :O)  laughing

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Not hard no, I'd forgotten the bugs. But my point was missed. No indeed, a snail is not a Jew; a snail is part of God, inasmuch as God can be divided into parts. So maybe a better way of putting it is: a snail shares God-nature with a Jew.

A Buddhist may think snail=Buddha theoretically, but most do not act like that. Buddhists swat mosquitos just like everyone else.

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LOL David, maybe I should have said

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Sorry Kecia,

I was just editing that but it came a bit late.

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No worries David, I thought what you said was cute/funny. =)

No, I'm sure all Buddhists do not practice kindness to the smallest of critters, especially the pestier ones. I heard Saint Francis helped his “small brothers” …the insects and spiders….across the road.
I like to help the eathworms in this way after it rains. It's a small act of kindness that benefits both of us. =)

I maybe get 2 mosquito bites a year. Mosquitos look like little ballerinas to me.
I don't kill them…but I admit, I eat raw fish very, very occasionally…knowing that just like the snail, the food on my plate is also buddha…one taste.

Love,

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A beautiful way to end Kecia, thank you, that was a very loving response. I shall end with the blessing that orthodox Jews say before partaking of meat:

Blessed art thou, Lord of the Universe, through whose one word all being came into existence.

Love,

David

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Dear David,

This is delightful. And I agree with your approach from a Christian perspective - not everyone is a Christian but we are encouraged to see Christ in each human being and in all of creation, which is even more profound…

I think this is appropriate here:

On seeing Lightning and other natural wonders

Baruch Atah Adonai Eloheinu Melech ha'olam oseh ma'aseh vereshit.

We praise You, Eternal God, Sovereign of the universe, Source of creation and its wonders.

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Thank you David; yours is also a beautiful way to end. I love the prayer you shared. Such a pure expression of unity. =)

(((bows to the One Word that finds expression through David)))

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My Orientation….

We never went to church when I was a kid, but my mom was really devoted to Jesus and loved her bible (still does!). She instilled in me an image of God as Love and taught me how read scripture through eyes of love, which I still enjoy doing very much! I choose not to identify as Christian or any other religion, but ….

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ah, kecia, so very beautiful! thanks, the light of your love shines brightly!

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I was raised in an almost all Jewish community.  Nearly all the adults had come from concentration camps. It was a wonderful place. Culture and education were important. Critical thinking abounded. Interestingly, the war and religion were nearly never discussed. I only did once with the woman next door, my friend's mom. She told me her entire family had been killed in the camps. I still remember this - remember her delivery. It was so calm. And then a short ways from where I lived, a Jew came into the synagogue and started shooting everyone. Some freak pathology, and this has remained with me in a disturbing way. So tragic. So deeply heart breaking. I don't know … And then there was all that stuff from that time - prejudice against Jews. I would hear it, and nearly all my friends were Jewish. Such things were …  disturbing for me. Jews would sometimes change their names, while hiding they were Jewish. My wife's grandfather, a Russian Jew, changed his religion in order to marry his wife, a member of upper NYC society. I don't know … But this closeness I have had with Jews, inclusive of my much loved friend who died a few years back, it has made me a rebel (I just realized that), never accepting the crap from society, always raising a voice against prejudice, oppression, cruelty, and the taking away of human dignity and rights - and still wondering why progress has not been made. I don't know …        

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interesting… i have always had a deep affection for the Jewish people in general and their culture, and many fascinating Jewish people in particular, like my first love and our David now … David, I can't believe I've known you such a short time, it feels like years.

i have to echo your words, sean… i don't know…

love to you

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Ah Grasshopper!

True knowledge and true progress transcend time and space.

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Love,

David (sharing his lunchbreak with his favourite people)

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LOL so now i'm grasshopper! I am honoured! I didn't expect you to have time on your lunchbreak. What a happy surprise!

Love,

Nicole

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But Nicole! This is the Zen Buddhist pod… I had just learned from Kecia that it is entirely in keeping with the nature of this thread to refer to you as a grasshopper! Grasshoppers are cute!

Love,

David

(and now I really have to get back to work, I have to get home in time)

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oh yes, i really do love being small and cute! i was just teasing you… travel safely…

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Hi Silent Temple,

Of my grandparents' siblings, 20 out of 23 were killed in the camps. My wife's parents (who were young children at the time) spent the war in Holland moving from one hiding place to another, hidden away by good people, non-Jews, who had nothing to gain and everything to lose. My father-in-law, who couldn't speak about the war to his children, one day related the following story to one of his grandchildren.

He was in one of the safe houses when suddenly there was an SS razzia. In panic, he fled into one of the cupboards and stood there shaking, his heart pounding, while he heard the sounds of the soldiers outside, pushing everyone around, searching for Jews. Suddenly, the door of the cupboard he was hiding in was torn open, and my father-in-law found himself staring into the grim face of an SS officer. The officer looked him directly in the eyes, announced in German “there's no-one here”, closed the cupboard door and left.

I know….

David

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Oh my God! I so rarely hear such a story. Thank God, even some of the Nazis could have compassion. I cannot imagine what it was for him to stare death in the face like that and have death turn out to be life…

oh my David. I'm so very sad that you lost so many members of your family to the Holocaust…

love,

nicole

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Blessings to all!

Such wonderful thoughtful posts. Thanks to all for such sharing.

OM MANI PADMA HUM
H

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David, it is tragic so many of your family were murdered. Your father-in-law's story gives me hope. Thank you.

The guy across the street from me was a mechanic in the Nazi army. It was a join or be killed or imprisoned thing, I am sure. Captured in Russia, he was a prisoner of war there for three years. While there, all his family was shot to death execution style in Germany on their farm and left in the snow unburied. He thinks a neighbor did it who claimed his family's land.

While in Iraq, people would sometimes run to my sons, begging for food, attempting to sell their children - all kinds of things.  Many of their buddies were killed or maimed. Wounded, people would go crazy, shooting at anyone they did not recognize.  Attacked, the Marines often could not retaliate according to rules of engagement - sitting ducks as people fell around them. Horror.

I must be weak. It is strange but I feel I have PTSS, my sons having joined the Marines after 9/11 to protect who? Their parents! Both parents pacifists. laughing Iraq - three tours of duty - and everyday I died a death - looking out the front window for who? My sons. Crazy. Odysseus' dog - waiting heartbroken and dying from worry. And now they have recalled one of my sons, and he is still injured but it does not seem to matter. Despite all this, I am screwed up and my sons are just fine. Go figure.

I think I'll go roll on the floor in agony.

 

 

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When you think clearly about it, war is an insane activity. It is compounded by the ignorance of rules that get in the way of self survival. Soldiers are for killing people and breaking things. That is their nature. Use that insane force wisely and sparingly.  

Citizens should hold the act of war back as a final desperate attempt of survival. But Nations get caught up in ego. “We can't let them die for nothing. We have to stop them over there. There is light at the end of the tunnel. We are killing folks to liberate a Nation.” It's much easier when others are doing the dying. And good people don't know how to stop this insanity. The war business is good and it's influence is all pervading.  

Things as it is.

The Basic Con

Those who can't find anything to live for,
always invent something to die for.

Then they want the rest of us to
die for it, too.

Lew Welch

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Thanks, Bob! :o)

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the waiting is the hardest part, dear friend…

love to you

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Dear Silent Temple,

I can imagine how you must be feeling about your sons. I think this is the hardest part for a parent.

Love,

David

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my orientation is the truth

i am in favor of whatever is true

i think the truth is a good thing

i am not interested in those things which do not exist

have you noticed that every religion and every science and every individual
thinks they have got the truth

ive never heard anyone at all say
that what they believe in is untrue

each and every person to a man proclaims that he has the truth

science says evolution
religion says creationism
both think that what they say is the truth

its the one thing they agree on
its the one thing that everyone agrees on
the truth must be good
everyone wants to have it
and if they dont they at least want to pretend to it
because the truth has got to be right

so my orientation is the truth
because i feel its imperative that everyone should agree
so they wont murder each other so much
and everyone agrees on the truth

so i only go with that in which everyone is in accord
and the only candidate here
is whatever it is thats true
the truth is the one thing noone can deny

one says god
another says no god
but each one thinks he has got the truth
on this they both agree

stick with whatever turns out to be true
and you will never go wrong

this is my orientation

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Rashthawani,

Thanks for you posts!  :O)

I don't know … I think some of us do not think we have the truth in any conclusive sense. There is an openness, and an openness to new realizations. Also, in this orientation, we are aware of uncertainty as … an intrinsic aspect of existence.

ST

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Dear Rasthawani,

Personally I try to stay away from abstractions… whether it is God or Truth or anything else that we place outside of ourselves. Placing a goal outside of ourselves, especially in the form of a “safe” abstraction, is a game we play  to distract ourselves from the real work of relaxed observation to discover our own Infinite God-nature; something that is terrifying, especially when we have bought into the “small, humble me” mindset.

With our dualistic consciousness, this work is something that can only happen in an interaction with material reality. And, religions are simply part of that material reality. To consciously participate in any or all religions does not necessarily imply that a person identifies with this or that religion or orientation, the person may have just chosen a particular part of reality to work with and to observe; see it as a vehicle if you will. You could just as easily choose Nature, or Mary Bloggs to work with. It's up to you.

Trines,

David

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I just read every post on here and now my eyes hurt hahaha.


I agree that giving a concrete orientation isn't really satisfactory in explaining anything.

I do invest much belief in the power of GOOD cognitive therapy.  Only because the majority of people whom I consider to be okay with life have been through it and that is why they are okay with life. 

I think in order to get to the spiritual it is a much more effective path to tear down faulty cognitions.  Because it seems to me that faulty cognitions cause so many people to cling to the material or to believe in an angry god which only reflects their anger at themselves…

I like to think of myself as a Salmon swimming downstream.  Just meandering along and bending my path here and there to avoid rocks and branches.  yeah.

I have always leaned towards buddhism in general… but I cannot say that that is my orientation.


So the closest thing I can get to saying is that my orientation is that of a salmon. hahaha.  That is good enough for me.  Or I guess I could say that of a salmon and that of the stars.  I like the way that sounds hahaha. 

this discussion makes me smile.


Much much love, Kevin

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hello salmon… i greet you as a fellow traveler with bows

love

nicole

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A lot of us are eating you up, Kevin!

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hahahaha, indeed! I am eating myself up!

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laughing