Ayahuasca

Ayahuasca is a powerful analogue plant teacher from the Amazon.  It's carrier plant is Banisteriopsis Caapi.  Caapi (also known as the death vine) opens the doors for the oral ingestion of DMT-containing plants, usually psychotria viridis or mimosa hostilis (jurema).  The two combined alone or with other active plants to create a “brew” is a traditional practice  that can be taken to the level of life practice.  It's powerful medicine. 

Discussions about Ayahuasca, it's preparation, use and properties, can be had here in our little corner of the Zaadz universe.

Re: Ayahuasca

UDV Church wins right to use Ayahuasca in US

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Ah yes…the vine with a soul.  :)

She really has gone global these days, hasn't she?

arthur

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Yep.  You could say that.  The only problem is that unless you live in the Amazon basin, you have to rely on the whole system of oil, gas, planes, trucks, and the complex infrastructures of the world in order to obtain it.  (Unless you can grow your own plants, in which case, many of the lessons learned from the plant teachers is to respect your bioregion and the best way to do that is find plant teachers that grow in your area).  A good thing or a bad thing?  Everything has it's price, right?  I'd say, for some, this would be a catch-22.

Re: Ayahuasca

I tried to brew this once years ago, but…Well, I didn't do my research very well, and only ended up with the caapi vine.  Was quite the bummer; it took hours to boil down all this stuff, and we chugged down the nasty tea it made, and…. nothin'.

BuT, it was the highest we had Ever gotten off of a bowl of mj a little later.  It's when I actually got an understanding of what the vine's purpose was in the whole brew, as a “carrier” or a primer or whatever. 

Will try again some time, for sure.  You may have a point with the teachers and their locale, though.  Maybe I'll just need to go to the amazon first?

Re: Ayahuasca

As I recall, the banisteriopsis caapi contains the harmine and harmaline part of the mixture, and harmine is pretty quiet taken by itself. I used to mix passionflower with cannabis and get a harmine enhanced cannabis high, kinda pleasant.

Mix harmines with dmt, and you get the orally active dmt effects of ayahuasca.

 

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No, no, I don't think one needs to go to the amazon it was just that I think about how everything is interconnected and has it's price so to speak.  Even if you did go to the Amazon you would still have to fly there and take some sort of transportation which means still relying on oil and industry.  I think I was just being a bit of a devil's advocate because I don't believe it's practical or necessary to be too concerned about this, that is, we must be mindfull, as much as possible, about what it is that we are doing.  I was also thinking when it comes to plant teachers, each region has it's own, many seem to have yet to have been discovered as well. 

The first time I brewed my own ayahuasca using banisteriopsis and mimosa hostilis I found the process to be quite easy.  With mimosa, it couldn't be simpler.  I prepared the two seperately and drank them seperately.  Banisteriopsis is the gateway, the true teacher who is introducing you to the other plant, it's partner so to speak.  At first I didn't understand this but then I realized that the wise one is truly Banisteriopsis although, by itself, as Bill already mentioned, it is not orally active. 

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What would you say were the distinctive features of the ayahuasca experience?

I was given a couple of doses of pure harmine a long time ago, I took them, but noticed very little effect, and what effect there was could easily have been created by the anticipation and meditations I was doing.

The primary effect, if there was one, was a greater sense ogf hypnagogic imagery, and a 'swimminess' to the visual field. Like I say, it could easily have been self-engendered. Or perhaps the dose I took was too small.

I always loved harmine's old name, “telepathine”.

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Hi Bill, sorry for the long silence.  To answer your question I would venture that, based upon my beginner's mind experience with the good brew, ayahuasca's main distinctive feature is that it is medicinal.  It is intelligent and alive, like everything in the universe and it has it's own personality(ies) very much tied with the jungle.  It seems to give the individual what it needs not what they want.  It demands humility and reverence for all living things.  Also, I often get the feeling that it tends to specialize in the personal side of the liminal realm or spiritual mind space.  Many experiencers call their trips “dreams” and I would consider this a very appropriate label except that I would consider them more like lucid dreams in a shared space with other minds (all other minds really). 

We all know that the main ingredient fueling ayahuasca is DMT and DMT has it's own unique characteristics (one being the ability to transport the individual into hyperdimensions), but it really is the analogue, the alliance of the plant spirits, the chemicals, and your consciousness that seems to make it so uniquely ayahuasca. 

In short, my feeling, so far, is that ayahuasca is a doorway to the hyperdimensional of shared human and especially non-human “mind-space.”  It is also seems to bring out a sense of bravery and integrity in the individual who honors what it has to offer.

p.s. I love the term “telepathine” as well.  It seems to be a very intuitive way of describing it.  I wish it hadn't been discarded as a term for harmine. 

p.p.s.  Dose is very important to your experience as well.  If you're not taking enough it just won't reveal it's mysteries to you.  I am slowly learning this as I try to balance my sense of foolhardiness with my sense of caution. 

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I've found that the different molecules seem to trigger off different classes of 'visuals', characteristic shapes, themes, and qualities that are associated with the visionary or hypnogogic or dreamlike part of the experience.

Can you remember what if anything was characteristic about the ayahuasca visuals?

Can you compare it to one of the better known molecules?

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No, I can't.  But then again, I haven't ingested everything.  For me, the only comparison to a molecule is, of course, DMT.  Really, it doesn't get any more better known than this with the exception of LSD, MDMA, psilocybin, and THC.  It has characteristics of psilocybin with just a touch of LSD but, the visual aspect with the classic LSD type imagery is definitely not emphasized in my experience.  It just seems to have it's own classification.  Ayahuasca can vary so dramatically with the individual and his or her set and what the plant wants to reveal.  That being said, I have read several accounts that describe incredible imagery with swirling, mandala-like visuals.  I think this characteristic is just a part of the tryptamine family in general. 

I am not at all sure that I am answering your question.  Maybe I'll have to explore this further . .  .

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What's that plant that is usually mixed with bansteriopsis to produce traditional ayahuasca? Psychotria viridis? Thats the name that is popping up in my memory…

I ask because it seems possible that all the hundreds of sub-compouds and molecular variations in the choice of plants could have a big effect on the experience.

Thats always been a big argument of the plant proponents.

I have always wondered what effect you would get if you just mixed pure chemical harmine and dmt together and took them orally. Has anyone heard of an experiment with this?

Where did you get your banisteriopsis? Do you think you took an ideal amount of dosage?
 

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Bill,

Yeah, Psychotria Viridis is the most common along with Mimosa Hostilis.  I purchased Mimosa Hostilis (premium purple/pink) and Banisteriopsis (yellow) from a company in Ontario called Ethnogarden Botanicals.  They advertise in the Entheogen Review and a few other places.  This company was recommended to me by a highly experienced and knowledgeable friend.  They also sell a wide variety of other hard to obtain plants, plant extracts, including live plants, seeds, and bark/roots.  To the best of my knowledge, for those out there who are reading this, the purchase and possession of these plants is not illegal, only the intent to consume.  Also, possession of DMT in plant form is not illegal (also, DMT resides in your body at this very moment), the possession of synthesized DMT crystals is.  The other known alkaloids and tryptamines contained in ayahuasca are too esoteric and seem to be largely unrecognized by the law.  I'm not sure about harmine or harmaline though. 

Anyway, variations in brew preparation and the chemical alchemy of ayahuasca are great.  This is one of the reasons why it is such a demanding substance to work with.  Also, why it seems a lot of people would rather go down to the Amazon or have someone else prepare it for them.  I think you're right, Bill, about the choice of plants to the admixture and the effects one will experience.  Each plant and chemical has it's own character for sure.  In additon to DMT and Harmine/Harmaline, there is 5-MeO DMT and  Bufotine which can often be a part of the mix, either of which can dramatically alter the experience and the potency. 

I am not familiar with anyone taking pure Harmine and DMT orally.  Maybe you or someone else reading this has hear of this.  Erowid's Ayahuasca vault would be my first stop in researching this.

-sean (ocean)

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The closest i got to hyperspace was using a light and sound device under Ketamine,it was nice to see how comfortable the mind stays in this unreal universe were geometry was build out of light and sound.I would like to know if there are DMT-like compounts that  can be find relatively easy or other legal drugs.
Thanks.

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Why, yes, there are.  DMT is, literally, everywhere.  If you are willing to work with plants and plant consciousness in all of it's unrefined, earth-based glory, then the world is your oyster.  To add to that, currently, none of these plants, to my knowledge, are illegal to purchase or possess unless you harbor massive amounts presumably for the purpose of consumption or extraction.  I've mentioned it many times before on the pods but definitely read the other entries about aya and then check-out, if you haven't already, erowid.  You can branch out from here at your leisure. 

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check out this link:

http://pods.zaadz.com/dna_activation/discussions/view/10314#10314

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Thanks for the link Bill!  Good reading.  Yage sure seems like a hot topic at the moment.  At least in my world. 

Re: Ayahuasca / Bobinsana

The quotes below are from “Now is the Time to Open Your Heart” by Alice Walker, about her personal experience with Bobinsana, used as part of the Dietas in preparation for Ayahuasca–but important in it's own right as a teacher of dreams.  I have been drinking its tea regularly and it does evoke powerful healing dreams.

—-

Kate was exhausted by the time Armando's song was completed.  She wanted only to sleep.  Armando turned to Cosmi and asked him to bring her a special medicine.  He explained to Kate, as Cosmi approached with a pitcher full of an earth-colored liquid, that this medicine, Bobinsana, would help her have lucid dreams.  And in her lucid dream tonight, she would be able to talk in the right way to her ancestor.

—-

Was it the _medicina_, the Bobinsana, that gave her this clarity?  This certainty?  It will make you see things in your life in a different way, Armando had promised.  It will teach you to see through your own plots.  Kate smiled, thinking of his warning.  It is a plant, furthermore, that grows deep, deep, deep beside the river and remains where it is planted always.  The river may change course but the plant will never move.  When you drink it you too will want to root yourself, to find your riverbank and never uproot yourself again.

When Armando told them about the Bobinsana Kate had had an image of everyone in America, the land of speed and movement, drinking it, and suddenly realizing they might as well stay where they are.

—-

And she, after a few moments of thought, began to tell him about the amazing plant, Bobinsana, that grew beside the river, whose roots, dissolved in water, she had drunk morning and night, and how she had begun to have dreams that diagnosed the illnesses of others.

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Tell us more Bill…Where does one find the bobinsana? I guess I will google it:)

The other night I was having this lucid dream and as soon as I realized it, I fought  myself to wake up! I could hear myself whimpering in paralysis and told myself to just relax, it will pass, tried to focus, and finally I woke up. I wonder how bad these experiences are for my brain, spirit…etc…
It really is starting to piss me off that I am so scared to be free when i get the chance to dream lucidly. When i havent had one in awhile, I almost nostalgically/sadly wonder why. Then when i do have one, i am too scared to enjoy or learn while in that state. It doesnt make sense! I can really have a lucid dream anytime I want to…… I think it is time for some serious disciplining  both physically and mentally. For some reason, I think I have this thought that I will get trapped in my dreams and never wake up. I dont want to be scared of death. Enough of my rambling…

dream deep
B

Re: Ayahuasca / Bobinsana

Hi Breeze,

I know what you’re going through with your lucid dream exploration. My encouragement is to approach lucid dreaming as a conscious dreaming or meditation practice for achieving mindfulness in all states of consciousness.

My suggestions for lucid navigation:

* Set your intention for what you want to dream before falling asleep.
* Charge your pre-sleep intention with positive thoughts and emotion.
* When you “awake” in the dream go with the flow and have fun with it.
* While in the dream know that you are the captain of your dreaming.

I’ve found that I’m able to successfully LD most often during afternoon naps or while napping on a weekend morning after a good night sleep.

I also recommend googling up two excellent lucid dream authors/lecturers - Stephen LaBerge and Jeremy Taylor.

Happy dreams,

Dave

Re: Ayahuasca / Bobinsana

Thanks DAVE! How kind of you to respond. I greatly appreciate your suggestions. I have read alot of Stephen LaBerge's work but have not come across Jeremy Taylor.

I too am more apt to having a LD during a nap. I believe it is because the brain is more active during the light hours of day. A bit of Cafffeine before a daytime nap (Which seems like a pretty rare happening) has also produced states of hypnagogia and the ability to venture forth into an LD or an OBE.

Re: Ayahuasca / Bobinsana

Breeze, hi.  Sorry for the delay in response, was out of town for part of the holiday.

I got my Bobinsana in the form of (root?) wood chips from Jerome Black at Amazon Theraputics Labs in Murphy Oregon.  Jerome is the ethnobotanist and founder and I spoke to him on the phone.  I think a half pound bag of chips cost me around $50.  You boil them, just like making Chinese herbal remedies (if you need more specifics let me know).  At the time I ordered a year ago this was the only supplier I could find.  http://herbs-america.com/about/index.html 

Since that time a couple other suppliers have shown up.  These guys are using the leaves and bark, certainly kinder to the plant than harvesting root stock, but the quote above from Walker refers to the root tea.

http://www.amazon-botanicals.com/Bobinsana_s/78.htm  $20 for a two oz bottle of extract.  Not sure how this compares to what I'm currently using, but seems like it could be a good deal, convenient.  But two oz compared to several cups you get from brewing just a handful of chips…  might be more expensive in the long run.

http://www.maya-ethnobotanicals.com/product_listbuy.phtml/type_commonname/viewby_B
Maya Ethnobotanicals is in Switzerland, so shipping would be expensive.  They are selling just the plain bulk leaves.

—-

As far as effects.  What I notice is that it increases the intensity and “relevance” of the dream experience so that more potentially useful “guidance” material comes through.  It does not induce lucid dreaming per se, but I have had several semi-lucid experiences with it, but these are not the rule.  However if you are already facile at lucid dreaming this could only enhance the depth of the process.  This is a beautiful plant teacher in my opinion, gentle, deep, insightful.  Invoking your own wisdom and ability to make connections.

Warm regards,

–Bill

Re: Ayahuasca / Bobinsana

Bill, Thank you so much for the links. I am definitely looking into experimenting after I become more comfortable in my dreams. I will be sure to report my experiences here in this pod when I do:)
Thanks again!
Bri

Re: Ayahuasca / Bobinsana

I just ordered a bottle of the Bobinsana extract (mentioned above) and will let the group know the effectiveness of the extract compared to making ones own tea from chips or leaves/bark (which I've been doing for about a year).