Gaia: Spontaneous Awakening

Consciousness and Conscience

http://seagull.gaia.com — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:23:34 GMT

Dear Friends,

I have been trying to figure out how to go about this other
than to simply ask you to read. I am
posting this on all the pods of which I am a member, and putting it on my blog.

All of
us who are members of GAIA are surely people who are seeking a higher
consciousness, and thus we all have a conscience - yes!
For me, those of us who have a higher consciousness have a sense of
responsibility for the world around us; all sentient beings, our animals both
domestic and wild, our ecology. In fact,
it’s not simply a responsibility it’s a
natural act of kindness to ourselves.

Last week I received an email from a trusted and dear friend
asking me to sign an online petition.
Now I receive these every other day, and some I sign, and others I
ignore, as, to be honest, I am not so sure how effective signing petitions are,
but I am assured by some people that they are a small means of transforming our
world.

In this case, I am talking about what is happening in China
and Taiwan with domestic animals. Cats
and dogs (all types, preferably long haired retrievers and Labradors) are being
stolen from urban areas, taken to secret locations, and are being ‘SKINNED ALIVE’. Yes, alive (because the pelt is more pliable
if the dog is alive while he is being ‘skinned’).

Every time you see a little furry toy kitten in Dollarama or
other Dollar our Pound shops, you can be sure when you feel the real fur, that
it was once a live terrified cat who was dragged by a hook from a packing case
and held down by the neck and skinned alive, and then left to die in absolute
agony.

I know that I am being graphic here, but I have had dogs and
cats as pets for 35 years, and they do feel; they have a consciousness!

Four years ago, I
watched a TV programme here in Ireland where an underground camera crew went to
China to film these happenings, and I watched it in tears. I called the producer the next day, and he
begged me to write to government official responsible for imports, to stop our
country importing these furs and these toys.
Also he recommended that I write to embassies, particularly German,
Italian, and Spanish, as these countries are the main importers of these furs,
again informing of the barbaric acts being done each day on terrified animals –
all for the sake of a few cents!! I am
asking the same of you dear GAIAN friends.

Please, please, if you did nothing else today, will you
sign this petition, and if you wish go further and join the organization –
Animal Saviors. It will cost you Twenty
Australian dollars. The page from the
site which I am copying here does not include the terrible scenes. And if you have time write to your senators,
government officials, embassies etc.,
Let us all send our love and light to the people who are ‘working’ at skinning live animals for pelts, and pray
that God will send his/her spirit to their hearts, as we once experienced, so that we might all sleep in peace.

Here is the web page.

http://www.animalsaviors.org/petition.html

Thank you all, and beannacht.

Clare

Re: spontaneous kundalini

http://loneturtle.gaia.com — Sun, 11 May 2008 00:45:33 GMT

Re: shaking

Having had a close and very nourishing encounter with a Quakers (Society of Friends) group some years back, I'm reminded of their experience of quaking. They take this as a sign that the Spirit is moving them to speak during one of their meditative meetings or elsewhere, and they do not try to squelch it. In fact, some will not speak their minds unless this sign is present.

I had a similar experience on my first occasion to speak out publicly on the medical-activism topic I'm working on. It was about a 15-minute speech, and I shook the whole time! My legs could hardly support me. The strange thing was that my voice was sure and (as others mentioned later) very effective with not even a quaver. The only distress I felt was because of this 'symptom'; inside all was calmness and peace as I ordered my thoughts and delivered them.

At the time this was terribly confusing and disturbing to me, a former educator who is long past the fear of public speaking. I dug out all sorts of medical and psychological factors in trying to explain it to myself, and with those I'm never at a loss for more; but none of them - and not even all of them together - felt right. Then I remembered what I'd heard and read of the Quakers' experience with this, and I immediately felt a YES! response from my intuition. I believe it was the Quakers who coined the term "Speak truth to power", which is exactly what I'd been doing publicly for perhaps the first time.

This was one of my road-to-Damascus experiences. It was indeed a shift in both my consciousness and my actions. Since then I haven't doubted that this is the right path for me to follow. My interpretation of it has given me much more than an easy explanation of why such a thing could have happened; I now have an assurance and more courage than ever before. And I am so happy to have found this thread and read others' reports of it too.

Blessings and awakenings to all,
LT

New Pod/Group focused on Nonduality created

http://awaken2life.gaia.com — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:40:02 GMT

For those who might be interested...http://pods.gaia.com/nonduality

Re: Question

http://seagull.gaia.com — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:08:42 GMT

Yes John,

I am part of the contemplative, but not always able to be available, as Sunday is often family day here, and my chidren and grandchildren come to spend the day with us.....That is something I enjoy (smile)

C

Re: Question

Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:05:34 GMT

Hi Clare,
You are most welcome. From what I can tell it appears you're correct that there are few members of Spontaneous Awakening who have experienced one.. but there are some.

You hit on a key element in the process.. that of not struggling or continually wanting it to happen. This is why being in the present moment and not engaging the mind whenever possible is so important. When we are able to just BE, what is already there will arise and reveal itself to us. The first opening I experiences was immediately after discovering how to become very present. In fact it began the same day and opened fully that night and into the next day.

Best wishes on your project. BTW.. are you part of the contemplation pod? I joined the other day and look forward to doing a Sunday meeting and see what happens.
peace/love
John

Re: Question

http://seagull.gaia.com — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:49:53 GMT

Thank you so much for your reply John. I deeply appreciateyou sharing what is so precious.

Interestingly i posted the same questions on a support group which I belong to called Kundalini Heat. And got quite a few responses there. You are the only one here on spontaneous awakening who has replied with your experiences. Others have wished me wel, for which I thank them. Perhaps so many people desire spontaeous awakening, and havent yet experienced it.

For me, I remember that my opening, or awakening happened when I stopped desiring it, and focussed upon living.

I will let you know the outcome of the project. I have decided not to write it, but to make a video of me talking...(I am much happier doing that! (smile)

Beannacht agus gur a mile maith agat, ( irish )

Clare

Re: Question

Tue, 22 Apr 2008 04:25:30 GMT

Hi Clare,
I apologize for not responding earlier.. I've not been on Gaia for a while, as you probably know. I don't know whether you still need an answer to the questions, but I will post anyway as it may help someone else as well.

1. When you first 'opened up', what form of psychotherapy helped.

After my first opening I didn't have any support or therapy. Because I had no understanding of the ego/mind and how it worked (or what to do about it) I "lost" the experience and became completely engaged in my stories again, which resulted in my nearly committing suicide nine months later. As a result of months of prayer I met a man named Ed Hosmer in Sedona a couple of months afterward who taught me about the ego (mental constructs/patterns etc) and how to become conscious of my patterning.

As I read the books he recommended and practiced witness consciousness I began to understand what happened to me after the awakening and why, and as I paid attention to my mental chatter and brought consciousness to my patterns I became more deeply present and eventually experienced another opening about two years after the first.

Because of what I had learned I was able to hold that awakening. I still would sometimes become lost in a story, but it was usually short lived. I've since experienced two more, (the last one was this past September) and it continues to be an ongoing process of deepening.

Based on my experience, I believe it's important that people understand the nature of ego and pain body (what I usually refer to as suppressed emotions). For therapy to be effective after an opening I believe that it would have to be spiritually based, as psychologists in general here in the U.S. don't have a frame of reference to deal with post awakening conditions otherwise.

I usually recommend that anyone who either wants to become Present and Awaken.. or who has and is having trouble with the mind.. read Eckhart Tolle's "A New Earth". It's the finest work I've ever read on the ego and pain body and how to become Conscious.

2. What form of psychotherapy didnt help.
See above.

3. Did you quit meditation for a period, or did you continue to meditate.

For the most part I didn't meditate afterward as it seemed to be unnecessary. Often when I did would I would fall so deeply into Bliss and Love that I would be unable to function outwardly.. so I didn't usually do it. As it was most of the time I was grinning from ear to ear in sublime bliss, and completely unable to carry on a coherent conversation anyway. Even now my meditations are largely invocations and prayers and have not reverted to the way they once were. Meditation then was for seeking God, but when I came to know God it was no longer necessary to seek.

4. Did you seek help from the medical profession and if so what helped.

I sought only assistance from God and took what came along. Although I knew what had happened to me the first time, i also was so engaged in mind afterward as I said earlier, that I knew only God could bring me back home. I was also aware that the medical community in the U.S. would likely want to either put me into an institution or on drugs, as happens frequently here with people who have experienced Awakenings and go to their doctor or psychiatrist for help.

5. Did you experience any mystical or spiritual experiences prior to the opening, or did these come about, as a result of the awakening.

I have had so many that I cannot list them all here, but yes I did experience them for many years prior and they continue.

6. Did you experience 'past lives' in your process.

Not during the process, but before and since I have recapitulated a few of them.

7. What was most supportive for you…. was it professional help, or simply kindness etc., from close friends etc.,

As you have probably gathered already.. it was from prayer and close friends who understood what had happened to me and who were able to guide me.

If you have any further questions please ask. I'd be very happy to help.
peace/love
John

Re: Who Awakens?

Sun, 06 Apr 2008 00:27:56 GMT

Awesome Dave.. absolutely beautiful. It is the impulse to awaken which arises.. and only when the ego engages and decides to take charge does an "I" element enter into the picture.
much love,
John

Creating Change in the world

Sun, 06 Apr 2008 00:16:02 GMT

Dear friends,

For those of you who are not aware, the U.S. has been hovering on the brink of a total financial collapse, and this post is intended to address that and what we can do to act for change by using conscious intent.

We are witnessing a time in human history and evolution that is unprecedented. Eleven MILLION people have participated in the energy of awakened consciousness with Eckhart Tolle on Oprah. This is having a profound impact on the planet and on the future of humanity as well. When Oprah asked Eckhart during the first week's broadcast why this movement of awakening is happening, his reply was 'Because it has to".

it is happening because it is the response of Life to the need for change. We are in a time of a tremendous shift in consciousness on the planet, and the energies behind the old way of being are changing and will be even more in the future.. because they HAVE to. If they didn't we would be facing global catastrophy that the world has likley never seen. Why? Because humanity has created it with our myriad of thought forms and negativity. We have separated ourselves from Love.. and we must become re-aligned or we could easily perish.

So it is imperative that as a collective Oneness we add to this energy rather than detract from it. Our intent and our focus on awakening and peace for all humanity right now is critical. As the old saying goes "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." So as you see or hear the prophecies that come down the pike, take a look within at your reaction to them and be conscious of your response. If there is fear, let it go and shift into a loving heartspace and pray, or intend that Consciousness emerges.

Focus on that which you want to see manifest on the earth from the highest point in your conscious awareness that you are capable of and hold that intention firmly. By this doing we can assist the Impulse of Life to Awaken.

Our power as a collective is enormous. In my own life over the course of the past 40 years or so through my intent alone I have created homes, cars, money, jobs, and experienced amazing healing within my own body and others. I've participated in healing people of terminal cancer who were sent home to die, healed a woman who had MPD and had five personalities and now has one. I once had the occasion to bring a snake back from the brink of death that I had run over with my car and through my intent and channeling energy to it, it came back to perfect health and it THANKED me for bringing it back to life! With two friends I changed the weather in Pagosa Springs and the surrounding San Juan National Forest and brought the rain and snowfall back to above normal levels while the rest of the southwest was in the midst of the worst drought in a century. It lasted for an entire year until we/I dropped the intent and mass (un)consciousness again prevailed.

I also experienced a profound drop into Oneness on my third awakening and was shown and told that God's intent for us is to realize that we are One.. and that these powers and more are ours. It says in the Bible "I give to you to command me of my works".. which is also precisely what Christ was trying to teach us.

My point in telling you this is not because I'm special. We're all capable of miracles.. and we can affect an outcome on the planet right now by aligning ourselves with the movement of Life toward Consciousness and Love. We need not question whether God's will is destruction.. because God's will is only that humanity experience Oneness and Love and realize who and what we are. The destruction is being brought about as a result of egoic insanity and unconsciousness and the energy that it has created.. and so long as that energy remains in place destruction and evil will continue. This is why we are shifting.. as Eckhart said.. we have to.

So please join in holding a vision for peace and love on the earth and for awakened consciousness to prevail. I believe we are on the brink of a global shift and our conscious participation can move us further into Oneness. The very least that can happen as I see it is that what we focus on we will get.. and if we focus on love, then Life will insure that even if the planetary energies are such that a global shift cannot happen.. we will be loved and shifted within and we will know peace.

I do not pretend to know beyond the shadow of a doubt at this moment what the outcome on the earth might be. Perhaps Being has a separate dimension already prepared for us? It is certainly a possibility, and also coincides with several lucid dreams I experienced a few years ago. But it is also competely possible that we have already shifted beyond the need for that particular outcome. Many things have changed in the past 15 or 20 years and events that were set to occur suddenly shifted.

Suffice it to say that we have an unprecedented opportunity to affect the outcome of our own experience as well as that of the entire planet by and through our intention.. right now today. We are Oneness.. we are Love.. and we are Consciousness.. and as such we have the ability to work in alignment with Life to bring about profound and lasting change. So please dear friends.. let's work together for the common good of all and align with Life in creating a Conscious Reality for us all.

much love,

John

Heart Centered Awareness- April Be Me Magazine Article

Sat, 05 Apr 2008 00:20:05 GMT

I’ve written previously about ‘Present Moment Awareness’ and the need to be Present throughout the day. This month I would like to focus on one particular aspect of this state of being, which I refer to as “dropping down into the heart”.

Living in a vibration of Love is our natural state, but we are largely divorced from it because of our preoccupation with the mind. In order to rectify this and find our way back home it’s necessary that we shift our “base of operations” from our mind and its stories, to our heart and our bodies, and live in the present moment.

In terms of our chakra system, our hearts are the center of loving compassion within our being. When a master such as Jesus or Buddha incarnates there are three predominant chakras operating; the Crown, the Throat and the Heart. The Crown is associated with Truth and Wisdom, the Heart with Love and Compassion, and the Throat with the ability to communicate that to the world.

When we Awaken, the same becomes true for us as well. Our upper centers become predominant and the “lower” are integrated (usually over time) as any energetic distortions are resolved and the energy centers are brought into alignment with our higher nature.

We can help to facilitate this shift by consciously dropping down into our hearts and into Heart Centered Awareness in the Now. Essentially we are shifting our awareness from our minds and into our bodies and becoming Present, but activating the vibration of Love at the same time.

One very good way to accomplish this is to sit quietly and focus your attention on your inner beingness and your energy from the neck down. As you tune in to the physical sensations of your body and the energy as it flows through you, or focus on your heart as it beats, you will find that you automatically become more present and in your body.

You can also apply the technique of using a visual “soft focus” in order to help accomplish this. By changing the focus of your eyes and softening your gaze, your awareness and preoccupation with the mind will quiet, and you will notice that your awareness of your body and its sensations becomes predominant.

Another good way to bring yourself into your body and be Present is to pay attention to your breathing as it moves in and out naturally. When combined with soft focus this is a powerful way to drop down in to your body and shift your awareness into the present moment.

Once you are fully present in your body, if you do not sense or feel the activation of your heart, you can open it through becoming aware of someone you love, or through the application of gratitude. In most people the heart chakra isn’t fully activated, so connecting inwardly with the feelings you have for a person whom you love, or engaging in gratitude will open it.

To accomplish this using gratitude, you will need to first become aware of the things in your life that you are grateful for, even the most mundane. It could be something as simple as being able to take a shower in the morning, or having a good cup of coffee or tea, or being able to do any of the myriad of things you do throughout your day. Then as you become aware of each thing as it arises, give sincere thanks within for that being in your life.

As you engage in this process you will discover that your mind quiets naturally, your heart opens up, and you become more aligned with your true beingness in the moment. When you live in this state in the Present moment with your heart open you will find that life becomes a mystery and a joy to be experienced, rather than a burden to be carried. Not only will you change within and your relationships change, but your experience in the world will shift as well, as Life reflects your new state of being back to you.

As I have said previously, bringing yourself into the present moment not only enriches your every moment, but it also creates an opening for Oneness to reveal itself to you. Bringing yourself into Heart Centered Awareness adds the dimension of love and joy, and also takes you even more deeply into alignment with Self and the potential to experience Spontaneous Awakening and Oneness.

Until next time, best wishes on your journey.. and keep smiling!
Much love,
John

Question

http://seagull.gaia.com — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:29:10 GMT

Dear John and Everyone,

I am writing to ask if any of you who have experienced spontaeous awakening, could answer a couple of questions for me.

As you know too I experienced spontaneous kundalini awakening 8 years ago, (although it had tried to 'burst through five years before that, and susequently quashed with medication). For me it was a traumatic event which lasted a long time due to the amount of repressed material in my childhood.

I am endeavouring to write an article as part of my certification process as a primal facilitator, and I hope to write about the juxtaposition of kudalini awakening, or spiritual emergency and primal.

So I wuld be deeply grateful if you would be willing to share your experiences with me. Below are a list of some suggested questions, but if there is anything else which you might like t share, I would be deeply grateful.

Questions:

When you first 'opened up', what form of psychotherapy helped.

What form of psychotherapy didnt help.

Did you quit meditation for a period, or did you continue to meditate.

Did you seek help from the medical profession and if so what helped.

Did you experience any mystical or spiritual experiences prior to the opening, or did these come about, as a result of the awakening.

Did you experience 'past lives' in your process.

What was most supportive for you....

.....was it professional help, or simply kindness etc., from close friends etc.,

You can email me off group if you wish to seagull@irishbroadband.net.

Without any reservation all correspondence shared with me will be kept confidential.

Many many thanks

Beannacht

Clare

Re: Who Awakens?

http://Nara-Narayana.gaia.com — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:31:21 GMT

"And to relate this to the topic of this thread, “Who Awakens?”

The answer would be, no one.

All that happens is that the “I-ness” characteristic that always used to spontaneously arise in conjunction with thoughts, feelings, etc, spontaneously ceases to do so.

Someone might argue and say, “How can it be that all of these 'spontaneous appearances in awareness' just happen to appear in meaningful sequences. I would answer that I never said these the arisings are random, just that they are spontaneous. They appear to have a pattern of higher order to them. That is just one of their characteristics.

Someone might ask, “Does this mean there is nothing I can do to help precipitate my Awakening?” The answer would be, “There is no you.” When the person looks confused (or maybe even annoyed), one could say. “This 'trying to awaken' that 'you' think 'you' have been doing has really been spontaneously arising in (your) awareness. There never has been a “you” trying to Awaken, just an appearance of one in Awareness. What should “you” do next? You'll find out when “you” do it (when it appears in Awareness)

There. Solved the mystery of existance. What's next on my to-do list……

Namaste
Dave

P.S. That last bit of bragadocchio is just a joke. If I understand anything, it is the fact that I really understand nothing. (but it's still fun to play around with) :-)"

Joke or not David, you just answered your own question. By God youv'e got it! That is exactly right. There is no " I " in this world, there is only how " you " perceive your false self. "You" are not your mind and " you " are not your body, and you cannot fully know your " I " while in this world of illusion, because you cannot fully stop identifiy with your mind and body. Once you do you are no longer in your mind or body, and once you re-enter a body, whether it be the same one or a new one, you, once again cannot fully stop identifying with your mind and body. This is the enternity of God; the cycle never ends! This is how God (we) designed it, and we love it that way. We will forever be creating new and grander experiences for ourselves to experience.

"Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all". --1 Timothy 4:15

The only diffenerence between knowingness and your old knowingness, is that once you realize why you created this game you can consciously create which experience that you want no matter the circumstances; Heaven. And as we know, when you see your self (identify with) your mind and body, then your experiencne can be down right hellish. Now that you are armed with this knowledge, all that you have to do is live it in every NOW moment you will be able to do just a Jesus said:

"All of these things, and more, so shall you do."

~Namaste~
*deep bow*
Brian.

Re: Who Awakens?

http://devadas.gaia.com — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:26:47 GMT

A thought occurred to me this morning. I would have preferred an overwhelming felt-realization. But until such time, at least I have a thought.   It goes to the original question of this thread, "Who Awakens?"

What I was actually thinking this morning is, "Who or what is it that identifies?" When the pain body becomes active and I do not notice, it is said that I have identified with the thoughts and emotions being produced by the pain body. However, when I have, at least partially, disidentified with these thoughts and emotions, the pain body loses it's ability to fully control my behavior.

So who is this "I" that can identify or disidentify?

And then it struck me this morning. I accept that thoughts appear and disappear spontaneously within awareness. There is no "me" thinking them. I accept that emotions appear and disappear spontaneously within awareness. There is no "me" feeling them. So why not apply this to disidentification as well?   Anger arises spontaneously in awareness. One of the characteristics of this particular appearance of anger is that it has a sense of "I-ness" attached to it. There is no separate "I" there identifying with the anger. The sense of "I-ness" just happens to be a characteristic of this particular arising of anger.

Then a thought spontaneously appears and disappears in awareness. The thought is, "I have detected anger arising. I must now disidentify from this anger." Nobody thought this thought. This thought appeared and disappeared spontaneously.

Then the "I-ness" characteristic of the anger spontaneously disappears from awareness. Maybe the anger disappears with it. Maybe the anger disappears a few moments later. It doesn't matter which, because forms are always appearing and disappearing.

Maybe a new thought spontaneously appears and disappears in awareness, "I have successfully disidentified from my anger." There was no need of an "I" to think this thought. It simply appeared in awareness like any other form that comes and goes.

There is no need to postulate an "I" that identifies or disidentifies. Just as there is no need to postulate a thinker of thoughts.

This is probably related to how some teachers say, "There is no thinker and no thoughts. There is only thinking . There is frequently that tendency (spontaneously arising of course) to want to divide things up into multiple parts (thinker, thinking, thoughts), even though these divisions do not necesarily exist in truth

So there is no "I". There never was an "I". There is only an "I-ness" characteristic that frequently arises, attached to thoughts, feelings, etc

And to relate this to the topic of this thread, "Who Awakens?"

The answer would be, no one.

All that happens is that the "I-ness" characteristic that always used to spontaneously arise in conjunction with thoughts, feelings, etc, spontaneously ceases to do so.

Someone might argue and say, "How can it be that all of these 'spontaneous appearances in awareness' just happen to appear in meaningful sequences. I would answer that I never said these the arisings are random, just that they are spontaneous. They appear to have a pattern of higher order to them. That is just one of their characteristics.

Someone might ask, "Does this mean there is nothing I can do to help precipitate my Awakening?" The answer would be, "There is no you." When the person looks confused (or maybe even annoyed), one could say. "This 'trying to awaken' that 'you' think 'you' have been doing has really been spontaneously arising in (your) awareness. There never has been a "you" trying to Awaken, just an appearance of one in Awareness. What should "you" do next? You'll find out when "you" do it (when it appears in Awareness)

There. Solved the mystery of existance. What's next on my to-do list......

Namaste
Dave

P.S. That last bit of bragadocchio is just a joke. If I understand anything, it is the fact that I really understand nothing. (but it's still fun to play around with)     :-)

Re: Who Awakens?

http://mbsu.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:35:26 GMT

Brian,

"The trap that you speak of in this line of think, Mike, is the trap that the Ego lays out before you. The only trap is that you believe what the story (illusion) that the Ego is selling you"
Yes! Of course! But consider this paradox - part of that "story" (illusion) that the ego is "selling" you, is that you are NOT an ego and therefore you must seek to find the real "self."

You may attribute this desire to God (or anything you like) but no matter, it is the ego that is informing you that you need to NOT be an ego. The ego speaks in "tongues" and if you want it to, it will tell you that you are God.

How could it not be selling you that story (illusion) since the need to "buy" it means you acknowledge that YOU are an ego IN an illusion or else you would not be seeking for a way out. Sadly, the way out of the illusion is just another part of the illusion.

You seem to be saying that though you recognize that you are IN the ego illusion, you THINK there is a way out of the illusion. All you need do is simply refuse to buy into the ego's illusion.

The problem is, that not buying into the illusion (story) is simply part of the illusion. It's like an M.C. Escher painting, which staircase do you choose to ascend to God. Unfortunately, they all lead to each other. Round and round we go.

In fact, in the illusion the ego even informs that "hey we don't need to transcend, we already are transcended." The problem is that though the ego informs that I have transcended suffering, when I open my eyes I may be "looking out from my soul," yet if I am still a body, I continue to be imprisoned by the body's limitations and hence, suffer with the body. But, wait a minute I'm transcended!!!

The ego loves to conjure up dreams of dreaming that you are dreaming. Each dream seems a little more High Def., but it's a dream all the same. Yet, I will not stop seeking to transcend the ego and thus, the story within a story, the illusion of transcending illusion, continues on ad infinitum.

As krisnamurti (U.G. and Jiddu) proclaimed "truth is a pathless land." There is no path to teach and whatever is taught cannot be the way, simply because ego must teach ego how not to be ego. Kinda like the blind leading the blind, don't you think?

Nevertheless it is fun to talk about...

Thanks,
mike S

Re: Who Awakens?

http://Nara-Narayana.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:43:10 GMT

David,

In no way was I trying to imply that you should stop keeping an eye out for you re-actions of your body and mind (your pain body). That is, in fact, the only way to work your way out of your old habits and re-create yourself anew in every now moment. How can you become more aware of your self if you are not aware of your self when you are allowing yourself to be fooled by your false self? Catching your self in an unconscious re-action to a learned situation is the only way to becoming aware of that unconscious act.

What my question to you was meant to imply was, if everything is God's will, and you accept that, then why would you not accept all of it as awesome? You see, we have a tendency, which we have all learned through our experiences in our mostly unconscious world, to notice the things that make us upset more so than the ones that bring us joy. Your experience in the car for instance, you saw three events as, "okay I can deal with that" and only one as "now that's more like it, awesome!" When we can get to the point of not even noticing the crazed drive and giving him any of our energy (thoughts), then we can say that we have transcended that re-action.

So please keep up your diligent work to always seek to catch yourself in a unconscious state of mind or thought.

~Namaste~
Brian.

Re: Who Awakens?

http://Nara-Narayana.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:29:29 GMT

Mike,

"The general “idea” as presented in these threads is that ego must, in some way, be transcended in order to “awaken.” I would advocate that if one is attempting to transcend any particular, speciific part of self, or self /ego as a whole, then one is not awakening through that transcendence, one is merely imagining all manner of phantasmoagorical experiences that IS of ego/self and maintains attachment to self and body (the ego loves flying around on varying planes/levels of consciousness and engaging in all manner of “beyond normal” experiences since IT is the ONE doing or experiencing IT)."
What we are advocating is that you are not Self (Ego). Your Ego is the illusory function of your illusory false self that is a necessary function in this illusory world of forms (bodies and minds -Egos-), and to that end, you need to utilize the Ego to function as be able to you see yourself and the world at large that you see around you. What we are saying is that when you see you true Self as the Ego, then you see yourself as the illusion who is stuck within the illusion; which the Bible defines as Hell. I believe that I have stated this once already somewhere in the thread, but in case I haven't I will say it again. Heaven and Hell are not a place that we go to in this Universe, or in another dimension; Heaven and Hell are a state of mind. When we realize our true Selves (God), we are in a state of Heaven, Bliss is you will, and we think (Mind) of our Selves as Ego (mind), we are in a state of Hell.

“You can help to faciliate awakening, and you are most definitely NOT ego. You have an ego, you may or may not experience your life through ego, but you are not ego. You are Awareness in the Body of God.. ie. you are an aspect of God in creation. Ego is an illusion yes.. but Awareness.. the essence of your Beingness.. is not.” - John

"John, I agree with the “awareness” part of this statement. Yet, in my humble opinion, this is a fundamental trap of all spritual paths.
The trap that you speak of in this line of think, Mike, is the trap that the Ego lays out before you. The only trap is that you believe what the story (illusion) that the Ego is selling you.

"The practice of identifying and isolating and then, essentially, villifying an aspect of self or, in fact, self in toto, since the ego is the self."
Mike, once again I will repeat. The Ego is NOT self; until you no longer identify with this illusory aspect of the false Self, than you will be at the mercy of its every whim. This is the transcendence that we speak of. Once you realize that the thoughts that are generated from the mind are false, then, and only then, can you seek to overcome it. Awareness is what I speak of. Becoming aware of every thought that enters your mind and seeing how you fell (God, soul) about it. Will tell you whether or not this thought came from the false Self (Ego, mind) or the true Self (God, essence, you).

Here is a part of the whole that I must in some way break with, transcend, seek other then, be other then, move away from, etc, etc. Awareness is the whole, but the moment a “part” is differentiated as undesirable in any slight or subtle way, the whole is LOST."
Mike, In no way is the Ego you, you only think that it is you, and by thinking that the mind is you are experiencing this existence as Hellish, if you will; from a state of confusion. You are Wholly everything, pure God essence. And in that everything that you truly are, you are nothing. And since Ego is something, you are not Ego!!!

"The problem is the more we attempt to “transcend,” the more we solidly we press ourself down into it and become more deeply invested in IT" Okay, now we are getting somewhere. Yes the problem is when you 'attempt' to "transcend." Transcendence can't be attained. Transcendence is what you are. You can't transcend something that you NOT. Let me see if I can't see this in a clearer way by using an analogy.

Let's say that you are dreaming. And in this dream you see yourself stuck in a jail cell, in a prison that has totally be abandoned, so there is no one around, outside of you, to save you from his prison (Trap, Ego, mind, thought). You spend days just thinking about how you are going to starve to death, or die of thirst. For the first several days you yell for help. but to no avail you find yourself alone. You desperately try anyway that you can think of to try and open the door, but alas in is locked from the other side. Eventually after a week or so you feel exhausted mentally, physically and emotionally, so you decide to give up hope and sleep. While sleeping, in this dream, you have a thought from deep inside you, a premonition if you will. This thought tells you to that the key to your freedom is contained within you, and all that you need to do is stop resisting what is already contained within you.

All of a sudden you wake from the dream, and say to your self, "WOW, was that thought real?" At first you start the think (Ego) that it was just a dream and dreams are not real. Eventually after some internal debate you decide to give it a try (you've already tried everything else right? So what can it hurt) and let this key that is contained within you to come out of you. You try a few times and nothing happens. You might start to get frustrated, and you start think (Ego, mind) that you knew all a long that the thought just came from a crazy dream. But then, all of a sudden, you get a felling (a premonition like the one in your dream) to just let go of all resistance. So you finally sit quietly, and close your eyes and try to release all thoughts and doubt. Bam! All of a sudden the door flies open and you think to yourself, "What was that all about?"

You quickly decide that it doesn't matter because you are now free, and you race for the door way. The exact moment that you cross the threshold of the doorway you wake from your dream, and find yourself comfortable in your bedroom in your safe friendly house. You then think to yourself. "Wow that was amazing! I wonder what this all means?" You get yourself out of bed and start to make your daily preparations for that day.

What has changed in your daily life, due to this dream, you might ask; nothing that you visually see, but instead, everything that you see and experience is different because you see everything from the eyes of your soul (your true Self); internally. You see life as a vibrant flow of loving energy that is a part of you but is different from you (not your body, or mind-Ego, but your essence). Different in this matter does not mean separate, which is how you had felt while in the jail cell (Ego, mind); different simple means that is you but in a different form.

When you come to this realization you can say that you have awakened to yourself (God), and you can truly see yourself in everything that takes up a physical form; everything comes from the same essence (God, consciousness, love).

"Therefore, all these “experiences” that we call “awakening” are merely wonderful flashes of light and sound (and whatever else) signifying movement along the path, but not full awakening, to God. How can that happen, when you have identified a “part” that YOU have decided is unwelcome? Does God not accept ALL of you?" Yes, of course God accepts all of you. You are God, don't you except all of you? Even the parts of you, your body and mind, which are not a part of you! Experiences cannot be seen, they can only be felt. Once you see something you are in the mind (illusion) once again. It is not until that you realize that the illusion is there for you to be able to experience your true self (God) through experiences that can only be experienced through your body and mind (illusion) that you can see this reality (world) as one big experience of true Self (God).

When you leave your body, transcend this world (illusion), you will not be able to tell your self (God) apart from any other part of your self (God). This is the beauty and gift of this experience, world (illusion). When you can see that you can create the world of form in any way that you wish so that you can experience, whatever you wish, only then can you start to have the experiences that you truly desire to experience.

Sorry, I have run out of time. I might be able to try and help you answer the rest of your questions and a later time, or maybe one of the other enlightened people can pick up where I left off. Either way, God (Self) bless you always Mike. Know this and you will know peace.

~Namaste~
*deep bow*
Brian.

Re: Who Awakens?

http://devadas.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:12:35 GMT

Again, I am really enjoying all of the contributions to this thread. Clare, you still around?

John said: "I'd like to present a perspective from quantum mechanics that relates to your “tests” Dave. From an energetic perspective, you're experiencing these things because you resonate with them.. and nobody is “testing you”. The universe is just offering up a reflection of who you are at an energetic level. Our reality is created by our beliefs and thoughts/emotions.. so when these things come about they signal that there's something within us that is out of harmony with our Source.. or God.. or Self. Make sense? It's true of our entire life as well.

Yes that does make sense. And I do realize that nobody is actually testing me. If anything, I am testing myself. The "testing" model has been useful in that it has helped me to disidentify with the automatic reactions of my body and mind just enough so that I don't completely lose myself in them.

Whereas before, I would automatically reincarnate as the angry guy, the "testing" model allows me to remain at least partially identified as the witness. Then there is an awareness of the anger, but there is no "me" attached to it.

The input from you and Brian has reminded me that although this "testing" model can be a useful tool in the beginning, it too must ultimately let go of. Sort of like that Indian saying about using a thorn to remove another thorn that is stuck in your hand. Once the imbedded thorn has been removed, you discard both thorns.

Maybe there is enough awareness in me now that it is unnessary for me to keep a watchful eye out for the awakening pain body. But my personal experience seems to indicate that it does not take much reduction of my vigilance for the pain body to notice, seize the opportunity and off to the races we go.

namaste
Dave

Re: Who Awakens?

http://mbsu.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:58:56 GMT

Guys,

Great Stuff! I do tend to disagree with the the basic thesis of ego as presented here within these posts. But only in part, not in whole. You guys have presented some incredibly
thoughtful ideas, which I fully consider worthy of the fullest attention.

The general "idea" as presented in these threads is that ego must, in some way, be transcended in order to "awaken." I would advocate that if one is attempting to transcend any particular, speciific part of self, or self /ego as a whole, then one is not awakening through that transcendence, one is merely imagining all manner of phantasmoagorical experiences that IS of ego/self and maintains attachment to self and body (the ego loves flying around on varying planes/levels of consciousness and engaging in all manner of "beyond normal" experiences since IT is the ONE doing or experiencing IT).

"You can help to faciliate awakening, and you are most definitely NOT ego. You have an ego, you may or may not experience your life through ego, but you are not ego. You are Awareness in the Body of God.. ie. you are an aspect of God in creation. Ego is an illusion yes.. but Awareness.. the essence of your Beingness.. is not." - John

John, I agree with the "awareness" part of this statement. Yet, in my humble opinion, this is a fundamental trap of all spritual paths. The practice of identifying and isolating and then, essentially, villifying an aspect of self or, in fact, self in toto, since the ego is the self. Here is a part of the whole that I must in some way break with, transcend, seek other then, be other then, move away from, etc, etc. Awareness is the whole, but the moment a "part" is differentiated as undesirable in any slight or subtle way, the whole is LOST.

The problem is the more we attempt to "transcend," the more we solidly we press ourself down into it and become more deeply invested in IT (and this seems to occur on subconscious and unconscious levels - I believe many are unaware of their role in this ego maintenance). Therefore, all these "experiences" that we call "awakening" are merely wonderful flashes of light and sound (and whatever else) signifying movement along the path, but not full awakening, to God. How can that happen, when you have identified a "part" that YOU have decided is unwelcome? Does God not accept ALL of you?

We may try desparately to be pleasant to the ego or self and thus limit our seeing it as unworthy, but in our efforts to transcend IT, we are positing an ultimate desire to end its "life." No matter how we choose to describe our endeavor to awaken, we are essentially an ego/self seeking to be other then what IT is.

This is the antithesis of oneness and unity that is of God/Source. Advocating that "you are not your ego" is easily incorporated into "egoness" and the ego enjoys transcendent processes that simply allow it to essentially assume other "forms" of itself.

Make no mistake, in seeking to transcend the ego you have consciously and unconsciously determined it is NOT desirable to you and what you resist, must persist. You may enjoy the seemingly transcendental experiences of this path, but totally transcend you will NOT.

Many may state that you should still find worthiness in the ego in your attempts at transcending IT. However, the differentiation has been made and thus, pretending to love the ego while exiting the ego is inauthentic and the ego knows this and easily rolls with it.

Accept that you are an ego and love IT, not some pseudo-love, but truly love your ego (past, present and future) and in so doing, seek to transform its essence and not transcend its presence. Embrace it as the whole and the totality of perfect peace.

Do not in any way villify or seek to separate from parts of the whole since as such the whole will elude you entirely. In this love of "wholeness," transformation is indeed available to wholeness but only as wholeness. No need to differentiate or judge since that only presumes "parts" and thus parts are what you will continue to experience.

Yet, in the end my words are useless and in any path to God/Source you will need to find your own way by relying on "self" and nothing else.

My Best To ALL,
mike S

Re: Who Awakens?

Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:20:59 GMT

Hey Mike,

Are we then saying that the intuitive is separate from the mind? (the mind being the seat of the intellect and the seat of “self”) Or is intuitive “knowing” just another form or layer of ego, but less reliant on sensory perception? and maybe more attuned to other ways of knowing?

The answer to the question is absolutely yes, that the intuitive aspect of our being is separate from the mind. The intuitive impulse arises from within Awareness.. which is your true beingness in God.

Could we not, in fact, say that all “experience” is of the mind, since clearly we identify with the mind as the “self,” much more than the body (although the body is seen as a part of “self,” the mind is more quintessentially the “I am that”).

Experience itself isn't of the mind.. it just happens.. but our interpretation of our experience comes from the mind. When a person is deep in Awareness or Presence, whatever happens just happens and there is no interpretation of it. It's just the experience of Life. However, when a person is primarily ego identified (ie.. with beliefs, judgements etc) then experience does become part of the mind because it is filtered through the neural net of beliefs and labels of the ego. Make sense?

Could we not say that if all experience is of the mind and the mind is ego, awakening is of the ego? Possibly we need to move away from this tired old worn out label of “ego.”

Awakening is most definitely not of the ego. Ego tries to understand it, quantify and qualify it, but it cannot create it, nor can it participate in it. When Awakening happens, ego is not even present, which in part creates the dilemma we are faced with today. How does one explain the unexplainable, especially when the mind wasn't there to witness or experience the event? When you Awaken into Oneness, Awareness of the Self as One with All is the essential experience.. and there isn't any ego involved. In fact, when it happens, you often don't even know who or what you are for a time. So it's a mystery to ego.. but I suspect it won't stop trying to figure it out anytime soon. :-)

But, lets face it, what is the ego? Isn't it simply a composite of “beliefs” that I hold to as “self” and in fact isn't it merely my belief in that I am something as opposed to nothing, Since it is the nothing that I fear which caused me to from a “self” or ego.

Exactly. The ego is a composite of beliefs that does try to maintain it's "somethingness" out of fear of annihilation.. of the "nothing" you describe.

Therefore, the very idea of transcending the ego seems to me absurd since all my beliefs are ego, good and bad.

It is absurd indeed. We need at least a modicum of ego to get by in the world.. meaning that we need a thinking mind to function.. but we DON'T need to indentify with it.

The most I can do, if I am so spiritually moved, is to transform the ego in order to align my beliefs with the intuitive which may be a deeper more esoteric understanding of self and world, yet it is still ego. This may then be an arranging of conditions so as to allow for revelation/realization/enlightenment, etc, etc.

I assume you mean discovering the distortions of the ego.. ie childhood woundings and beliefs etc.. and bringing them to awareness. This is an essential part of the process of awakening, but it can also be a real game of cat and mouse if you let ego take charge of the "doing". As I said earlier.. the ego wants to maintain itself at any cost.. and it can and does use this very thing to accomplish that end. One can spend eons digging around for stuff to look at or integrate and find that all you're doing is going around in circles. I've done that, and believe me it's not fun. What I discovered works is to give the process to God and let it happen as it needs too. My part then is just to bring myself Present and BE. When you drop down out of your mind/ego and into your body and bring yourself into present moment awareness the mind quiets all by itself.. and then when distortions arise they are easy to spot. It's a simple process.. although one that the ego is usually very resistant to because it knows that if it allows PMA to happen it's going away. :-)

But of myself I cannot in any way faciltate awakening since I am ego and not to be ego is not to exist. or pure nihilism.

Actually this is not true. You can help to faciliate awakening, and you are most definitely NOT ego. You have an ego, you may or may not experience your life through ego, but you are not ego. You are Awareness in the Body of God.. ie. you are an aspect of God in creation. Ego is an illusion yes.. but Awareness.. the essence of your Beingness.. is not. And you can faciliatate awakening by answering the inner impuse to awaken, by meditating, by bringing yourself Present into the Now, by reading whatever you're led to read, and by doing whatever your intutive nature tells you to do.

I can never be NOT be an ego even in my deepest spiritual practices an ego must be the practicioner. Though the ego seeks to transcend itself it cannot negate itself no matter how hard it may try since that would be non-existence. I could say, “but my true self is not an ego.” But who is saying that? The ego seeking true self?

Again, you are not your ego, but what you say with respect to the spiritual practice may or may not be true. Your own Awareness/Divine Impulse is driving the desire to awaken, so unless the activity is taken over by the ego as it's own (which it often will do) then the actual process is Divinely led and intuited. When ego takes over though, you are correct that it cannot transcend itself. When you say "My true self is not an ego" it may be ego saying it.. but again it may be arising from a deep inner knowing that your true self is NOT an ego. Keep in mind here that there exists a fundamental Truth amidst all of the chaos of the mind, and it is unchanging and real.. and that is that you are God.
peace/love
John

Re: Who Awakens?

http://Nara-Narayana.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 03:18:49 GMT

Great post John! :-)

~Namaste~
Brian.