Gaia: Think Tank - Seeds and Appreciation - The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://siona.gaia.com — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:23:50 GMT

I was going to weigh in, but Sandra and Grey have explained beautifully.

And there'll be an update soon on the team blog. I'm waiting for Jake to come up with a little news about how things have gone so far (I'm curious to see how many thanks have been given...) and to get a ballpark for when a supplemental blocking feature might be ready, but yes... there are still seed myths that need to be cleared up.

Thank you, all, as always.

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://drane.gaia.com — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:34:35 GMT

Yeah, it's important to distinguish between the "seed bank", which contains the seeds you have to give to others, and the seeds you are given by people. Only you can see your seeds bank, and the seeds that are there do absolutely nothing and mean absolutely nothing until they're given to someone else (until they're planted). And no one can see how many seeds you've been given by other zaadzsters other than indirectly through the brightness of your beacon and (very indirectly) through how "hot" your content is.

The whole content-folding thing is related solely to the flag-for-review system, as Sandra has said, which, as far as I'm personally concerned, has virtually nothing to do with the seeds system. Sure, they can both affect your beacon brightness and "hotness" factor (if I understand the system correctly), but they do so in very different ways.

Metta,
Grey

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:34:57 GMT

Deborah, just wanted to bring clarity here:

And I have to worry about them dropping to zero and folding my content out of sight. It feels too much like manipulation to me.

This is one of the "Seed Myths".

Nothing happens when your seeds drop to zero. Nothing at all. (I'm sure one of the zteam will confirm this). You get seeds whenever you post and since you post a lot you will always have a pile of seeds to give away.

I've just tried to find the update on the seeds, but I can't right now. However my understanding of the system as it was ( ie a couple of days ago) is that IF you are flagged (the Flag for Review function) enough times, and the Team, after reviewing those flags to see if they are just pranks or real issues, then it's possible you could be 'folded' if it is clear you have been abusing the zaadz terms of use.

But from what I gather this will not be a non-human decision, ie. it won't just 'happen' because the stats say you are not active here. It's not about just being 'active' either, this was taken into account when the system was set up - - otherwise people could just post 100's of comments to 'acquire' seeds.

I think that's enough for now as I suspect the system has been overhauled and much of what I say may not be correct. I'm sure there will be an announcement soon about what is happening, but most of all I wanted to say that having zero seeds does not fold you and you do not have to do anything with the seeds at all. Nothing will happen if you don't.

I just let mine sit there for the most part, as I too find them an additional time consuming activity and my time is best spent in other ways on zaadz, imo. There is (or was) a 'ceiling' on the amount of seeds you could get, anyway.

Hugs!
Sandra

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://yhd52754.gaia.com — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 03:58:13 GMT

Tom,

I thought this one of most original "solutions" I've seen presented. I like the idea of a block. That idea ought to be programmable. That ought to take care of the sensitive sensibilities who need "space" from the big, bad wolves.

BTW, I see lots of posts indicating that the "problem" with seeds is a mistrust of the system or the moderators or the members of Zaadz. That has never been my issue. Trust isn't a problem for me. I trust only my self and my inner being. All else is dependent on too many other factors. My best protection is to control how I think about others around me, so that my personal experience can be more pleasant.

My issue is that I don't want a computerized rating. I want to interact with whoever I am led to interact with, read whatever pod or blog I am led to read. I know that this will provide me personally with whatever I need for my own growth and development. And I will do my best to not let seeds impact my passage around Zaadz but the seeds already are time consuming - when I give them away. Have to be noted separately from comments in blogs - extra time and effort. Have consumed too much of my attention already, since this whole thing started. And I have to worry about them dropping to zero and folding my content out of sight. It feels too much like manipulation to me.

I don't want to follow the popularity index. Granted the what's hot has existed on the top line probably ever since I came here almost a year ago and in the blogs (as to which of an individual's blog got the most attention). I've always been able to easily ignore it.

Someone told me recently I was a "glow_1". I didn't see that on my page or anyone else's page. I freaked, it was like "oh no, I'm rated now, I don't want to 'know' about it". Luckily, I was later told it was only the tiniest step up from the current mass of "glow_0" and way below "glow_20". I don't wish to stand out as a "number", a "level". The whole idea of a computerized, random sampling trying to determine what kind of person I am is insulting to me.

Just my opinion. Nothing against those who enjoy knowing they are "one up" on the rest of the pack. To each their own. It's just not mine.

Deborah

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://jeepdog.gaia.com — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 06:56:55 GMT

Man, with that post, now...

you have me pissing and moaning they took the bad seeds away. Where'd they go!?!?!? I want that negative energy back!!! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

OMZ!! Your dream is my nightmare...

(ok, here come the bad seeds from those who cannot discern gleeful sarcasm)

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://lucidaeon.gaia.com — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 03:56:34 GMT

Sure thing Zak, I think the Ol' Cranky Geezer actually lives in my state, so I might just have to track him down. His departure is an astronomical loss to this community, and serves a dark omen of things to come if these type of experiments in social engineering become the norm. Let's hope not. Be well : ) Peace

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:38:28 GMT

Syn, you are so beautiful, truly.
Sandra

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://Mascha.gaia.com — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 00:55:21 GMT

Who's that screaming in his dream, telling his own beloved self to Re-fucking-Lax... Alan? You again? Tsk, tsk, tsk.

I think I'll just ignore it and dream on.

Oops...

:-)

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://lucidaeon.gaia.com — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 00:38:18 GMT

Right, and there is no English language, no alphabet, no keyboards, no computers, no internet, no online communities, no Zaadz, and this message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://siona.gaia.com — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 00:18:21 GMT

Try again! It looks from your words as though you copied and pasted from some other form or program. I think any 'eating' was just the result of some bug or confusion about the site interpreting what you'd pasted.

Bewildered as well... :)

Siona

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://songofstorms.gaia.com — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:42:53 GMT

People, come on. There's no such thing as the seed system. It's a fucking dream. Within a dream. That's right, I said fucking. Fucking fucking fucking. Flood me with bad seeds! Make the moderators look at this post, and tremble! Fuckity fucking. Fucking. ITS A DREAM. ITS WHATEVER YOU SAY IT IS. The more fear energy you pour at it, the more it's the monster in your closet. Speak the refrain of the superwomen: RE-fucking-LAX. Breathe. Let go. Wounded children have created the wounds. I love you all, this feels harsh, but I can't contain it. Come on. Aren't we better than fear and loathing? It's a dream. Relax. Breathe. Let go. If it's based in misunderstanding, if the universe is perfect, when it's uncovered it will naturally disappear. All this bellyaching, isn't it a form of denial? (more bad seeds, please) If you were writing with love and joy, I'd be much more inclined to not write these words. But frankly your negativity is the only thing this community is threatened by. Relax. Let go. Breathe. Zaadz will get through this, be joyful, everyone here wants the same thing. We're just figuring out how to get there, that's all. THAT'S ALL! If you're speaking out of understanding, time will prove you right. So speak, naturally. Calmly!

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://lifeluvver.gaia.com — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 21:53:54 GMT

Hello Zaadz Team.

Thanx for taking the trouble to set up a trust system so that I can be guided by a beacon of consensual admiration when I surf these Zseas...I do not really have any conception of how stressful it must be to keep the system running on a kosmically-congruent even keel because i stopped playing ball in the corporate mainstream 25 years ago...but I applaud your bold efforts...

I will choose to ignore the system at present, apart from sending out random acts of kindness giving seeds to my friends as a kind of cyber-friendship card...because I agree with Lucid that the system will gear itself up to emphasising quantity over quality and there is enough tabloid nonsense elsewhere in the zeitgeist...I will ignore that which is popular and let my heart lead me to that which I will find on site...which is why I find it fruitful not to invest time in reading populist material...although I do sometimes, not being rigid...

I do not wish to waste time reiterating what many a fine mind has written above...they are a small representation of the 100k+ Zaadster pop....I resonate with both sides of the divide...and note that I could have spent the last hour meditating...there is an inflammatory zeal to some of the entries...given that other dramas are being played out on the world stage that involve tissue damage and misery I will plump for putting my efforts there....

Thank you for reading. J.

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://songofstorms.gaia.com — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:56:59 GMT

Hi everyone, I want to throw out an opinion here that focus on the system itself is a huge mistake. It's a tool. I have NEVER been a fan (at least when I cared abut such things) of the american NARA, or whatever, national association of rifle owners, but they are right about something: "Guns don't kill people: people kill people." However, they forget that people who want to kill use the easiest methods available, which in america tend to be guns. My point is: The system can't abuse us, only we can abuse us. Think of it like a back-hoe. Two farmers could use these tools to hack themselves to bits, but would that be particularly wise? I think distrusting the system is a misunderstanding: you only trust or mistrust the people using whatever systems are in place. Obviously those who complain trust the moderators to moderate the way moderation was working. Ok. Does this take into account, however, the wishes of the moderators? They moderated: they created a system. Now, some no longer trust the moderators, who tried to find a better system of moderation. But is this not evolution? And to mirror what some other poeple have said: Are we like Everyone Used to Be? meaning: in my perfect world, guns are allowed, because guns don't kill people, people kill people with guns: therefore, when all the people give up the idea that killing is ok, guns will be absolutely harmless. So who is it we're mistrusting when we complain about this system? The system or the users? How can we change what has been-- mistrust, abuse, etc-- if we don't change?

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://transcend-include.gaia.com — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:30:56 GMT

My experience has been to blame the software first. It's rarely ever a person who messes up your zaadz posts, but the software is often a bit buggy. (Sorry, zaadz team, it's true.)

Liz

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://synerjyz.gaia.com — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:15:01 GMT

Hey -Zaadz is more alive than I thought and it's hungry. : )

It just eat the majority of my original post above. Those are my words but they are chopped down and edited to reveal only the riches morsels -I suppose? That's never happened before. I'm pondering having done something wrong or breaking some term I agreed to. Hum?

Still pondering? I like what's sitting there but what happened to my original post. You guys can let me know in an zmail, if that would respect us more.

Still pondering and a litlle bewildered.
Syn

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://jeremiah.gaia.com — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 16:01:51 GMT

Thanks Synerjyz
I a ppreciate your heartful reasoned response. Yes ZAADZ iz aLIVE.
Blessed IS,
Jeremiah

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://sacredpleasures.gaia.com — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:39:43 GMT

hi folks. thank you zaadz for your golden intentions and efforts. comment and suggestion:

comment: Hegemony--control without force; manipulation. the threat / fear of bad seeds can be construed as a form of attempting to control my behavior through negative feedback (as opposed to CONSTRUCTIVE feedback). the seed system, imo, mirrors the dysfunctional institutions of our culture, which i believe are part of what i / we are working to heal from.

suggestion: give me the personal power to regulate / moderate. simple: give me the power to put a block on anyone i find offensive or disagreable. once a block is put on that person, i would not see them show up anywhere (only me--they can show up to everyone else whenever and where ever they choose). i have 100% power, i have 100% responsibility for what i see. no need for my parents, teachers, authority figures, etc, to monitor or act on my behalf (which somehow seems to nurture a codependence and gives power outside of myself). the power and responsibility are all mine. muuhaaaa ha ha haaaa!!!!

blessings, tom

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://synerjyz.gaia.com — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:32:59 GMT

OMZ! is my head spinning!

I’m finding it hard to know where to begin to add my voice.
and I think my intellectual bowels are just a bit constipated to tell you the truth.
but my gut is clear
and speaking to me below all the chattering
...below all the well endowed voices
and there are so many beautifully endowed voices.

Man, folks who are out to change the world don’t hold much back and
What a blessing that is, huh? … a supercharged blessing!

I've been digesting nuggets on this subject for many days now -seeking to get my head/heart around the energy that fuels the issues - and I am finally landing pretty close to my limit. What a wild and rich ride it’s been!

So here’s my contribution for this thread...

· A mistake is often simply an unexpected back road leading to a place we would have never found had we stayed on Main Street. J

· The perception of a mistake can only live in our predictions, assessments, and judgments. Mistakes often live in the shadow of fear (few street lights), even when the fear, worry, and concern are justifiably articulating our right-values? or good- intentions? (Safety, protection, goodness, etc).

· Mistakes are great! (If they exist at all?) They keep us ever mindful of where we intended to go.

· I say the seed bank/trust system has been a big success so far, perhaps not for the reasons intended but it is clearly impacting our collective direction, which seemed to be part of the original intention.

· Once again, initiated by the zteam, a fresh step (missed or not) has been taken in the direction of where we’re headed, the threat of not arriving where we intended caused so many of us to wake up as a community and use our voice to actively engaged in the co-creative, big-mind journey of Zaadz.

We always end up being where we are, headed somewhere else.

That’s the juice of being alive!

Zaadz is alive!

Living with courageous audacity

Dancing with the challenges of growth,

headed toward intentional change,

No maps required!

Bravo!

Let's go!

Who the heck truly knows where we’ll end up next?

I trust it will be pure Zaadz,

a place big enough to include me

plenty of room for us all.

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://jeepdog.gaia.com — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:07:12 GMT

Even if the downgraded "postive" system turns seeds into a "popularity contest," then so be it. This is no better nor worse than perceptions that can be created by showing the number of friends.

I do not see the power of moderation with "bad seeds" removed, so I sit here wondering "what is the point?"

As I said on the thread that led to this one -

I, for one, do not find my value or self-worth in or from others. I find my value and self-worth WITH others. Hence, I neither fear nor welcome the seeds, and will form an opinion as the concept takes hold. If positive - then good. If negative, perhaps we can again take up this feedback - yet the careful nurturing of the zaadz team will most likely note anything awry and fix it before many of us even notice it.

At any rate, the number of seeds in my "bank" was disconcerting, so I just spent an hour giving them all away. I feel much better now.

Thanks for listening. :)

Re: The New Seed Bank Idea Is a Big Mistake

http://perfectcircle.gaia.com — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:52:50 GMT

Boss post, Lucid. If you see Curmudgeon, tell him Zak will miss him, and wish him well for me. I regret I couldnt say goodbye to him before he left. His leaving is the worst thing about this situation in my view.