Re: What do you think?

I personally love it! I'm not an entrepreneur myself  and generally hate ads but I like the conscious advertisements here. They also aren't flashy (those drive me batty!). The sponsor logos made me check out their webpages, share the webpages with friends, and donate.

Love it!!

Re: What do you think?

Thank you for adding the sponsors. It is important for me to know who shares my vision, and you are making it easier. It is important for us to know who shares our vision, because that unity makes us stronger.

Re: What do you think?

Maybe some of the newer and younger members of zaadz are not familiar with the sponsors currently in the side bar of each page now, but lots of us already know about them and/or have had interactions with them in some way.  I think it would be better to place the ads below the content on pages, and it would be ok to have a prominant link to the sponsors near the top of the web page.  I'd like it better if each sponsor had a short description and testimonials with them by MEMBERS of zaadz.  Otherwise they just look like corporations trying to be “cool”.

Think about how members who use assistive technology and those who have some disabilities view the pages.  There is too much distraction now!  Plain is good.  Look to some of the clean design features in other sites like flickr.com.  I left most of my 8 years' activity on care2.com because of all the clutter and the incessant “alerts” sent out by sponsors and waaay too many newsletters.  There were always “nags” that made me feel terrible that I could not spend time and money resources on so very many “good causes”.  Simple is good and less is more.  I hope the staff will consider carefully the direction to head in as growth may become even more a priority.

Re: What do you think?

How about smaller in size, and at the BOTTOM of the pages, as Cobalt suggests? Right now, I just block them out by reducing the size of my screen because they sort of take over and compete with content. Thanks for asking!

Re: What do you think?

I think putting them on the bottom would be a good idea too. To tell the truth, I never even paid attention to the sidebar before I read about it here. I just didn't even look at them in their current placement.

Re: What do you think?

I think this is a great idea. Alignment is the key to successful relationships and i have no problem with advertising or messages as long as they are relevant to me. In fact i welcome it as i want to connect with organisations and people that i am aligned with. To celebrate i opened my account with Kiva today and now am involved with 11 people all living their dream. Thank you!

The next step for this is to individualise advertising so we would see just the sponsors or advertisers who were aligned with our own individual values. Just so you know we will be bringing this application, MyAdDNA, through VortexDNA soon as well as the ability to search for blogs and people based on their DNA, their purpose and values, called MyBlogDNA and MyDNA. It would be awesome to integrate this into Zaadz at some point.

It's so wonderful to see Zaadz embracing the quest for greater consciousness on who we are and our purpose and values that drive us every day. It truly is the next generation of social networking and i am sure it will develop even further in this direction. We can change the world by being the change ourselves and the power and energy we can create through Zaadz is limited only by our own beliefs.

I feel truly blessed to be here with you all.

Re: What do you think?

I love the idea of the featured sponsors and have enjoyed learning about some of them.  However, I think it could be done in a more visually pleasing way.  Perhaps making the ads the same size as the “featured friend” ads?  With all the boxes and columns everywhere, looking at someone's profile is not a pretty thing :)  Too cluttered.

Love the idea, but please keep working at it!  Good luck!

Re: What do you think?

Hey guys:

just a quick note to let you know we're paying attention and REALLY appreciating your feedback.

Please keep it coming!!

-bri

Re: What do you think?

Honestly, the ads are TOO BIG.  I do like the idea, and am glad the conscious business side is popping off up here (I've often mentioned how I'm waiting to see more functional uses up on Zaadz beyond communal networking, and it's beginning to happen).  However, the profiles feel squeezed, the ads swallow the focus on the friends bar, and the threshold just tipped in favor of distraction vs. sacred space online.  I've been avoiding building a myspace account for this reason -too cluttered- but now the contrast between there and zaadz is beginning to blur, visually. 

What if the sponsors were smaller, taking less of a side-bar.  Or just as big, but along the bottom of the page?

best,
andy  

Re: What do you think?

~

ok guys yes i totally agree myspace is much more appealing with one ad on top no matter
how stupid it is but i m not on zaadz to replace myspace or any other “social networking site
simply cuz i dont c zaadz as one… i c it far beyond that as my priority here is to network with
“filtered” people who r being a stand n contributing personally, locally and/or globally to
change the world n make it a different reality than it is right now…

so lets flip coins here for a sec…

if its ur ad that u have paid personally to be advertized on zaadz where n how would u like to
c it being placed (NOTE i cant stand the word advertizing but i havent invented another word
that would resonate with my vibration n to what i wonna share with the world about my
commitment on this planet… so in a mean while m using that old paradigm word ok…)

soooo

* my choice would be on my profile right below my foto n pods i administer or on top in the
   line above the bar of Newsletters, Quotes, Books, etc… 

* if they r at the bottom i know i would be first not to look for them n i do like them… they r like
   my friends… but even more when some of us start putting our designs there i would love
   to click n be taken to ur pages outside of zaadz so i can c what u r all up to… like friends
   right now that take me to ur zaadz profile this would be like an extension to ur outside
   world n what ur contribution is like phil's site ^.^  

* another option i m just thinking right now if they r made the exact same size as the current
   friends fotos (or close) n be placed as a 3rd bar as they r right now but in line with friends
   so it would be more pretty visually n less distracting yet appealing n seen enough to be
   clicked if interested… 

my 5c

^.^

Re: What do you think?

Well when I first saw them, this was my initial reaction.

It's not that I don't think there should be advertising on Zaadz.  I just don't like the current setup.  That many ads plus their size make it seem cluttered.  There everywhere.  No matter where you go, there they are slowly drawing your eyes off to the left.  They take up so much space too.  Their size has them bigger than most objects on all the pages, that it makes me wonder what is more important, the features and options or the ads?  But most of all I don't like their location.  I think it would be better if they ran horizontal instead of vertical.  I was not fond of seeing everything scrunched together.  Especially when the ads end it stays that way all the way down, leaving everything pushed off to the left.  Wait!  Oh no!  Zaadz has lost it's center!

I know your still meditating on finding their true path, so here's my pocket change

* Less ads at one time
* Horizontal
* Smaller
* They don't need to be everywhere or in the same location everywhere
* If their is less per page it will be better to rotate threw them

Also, possible look into zaadzsters being able to delete them from their page once they have looked at them or something.

Anyways.  That's just what I was thinking.  I do love the sponsors though.  Great companies!

John

Re: What do you think?

i'd like to hear from members who have disabilities, especially visual impairments.  I know for a fact that there is at least ONE member who uses assistive technology like JAWS and ZoomText.  Screen readers (used most often by those who are blind) read every word on the page, and every word that the visitor types.  The way zaadz looks now to us is read in a very confusing way by a screen reader.  It is very hard for those people to get to content as all the links in the top are read first and then all the links for the sponsors and finally any comments or content. 

Visitors who use DragonNaturally Speaking (for those with physical impairments and spinal cord injury folks) also have great difficulty with the layout.  I do think that the aims of zaadz are or should surely involve web accessibility.  After all, the web standards of 508 (see <a href=”http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/Overview.html”>how people with disabilities use the Web</a>).  This is a global standard and socially responsible companies will want to be aware that “You'll benefit by designing with respect to accessibility. People with disabilities represents 8% to 10% of the total population. It's easier to maintain a Web site that follows accessibility guidelines (and therefore Web standards). Your Web site traffic will increase, and a wider variety of browsers will have access to site content.” (from W3C, the web standards organization).

Looking at the way the content is structured at present, the whole site is becoming more inaccessible rather than moving positively.  I know this is TMI for some, but if zaadz aims to be an inspiration for a wide audience then surely the time and money spent on website development is a worthy goal.

Re: What do you think?

What's weird is that on my laptop I can see the ads but when I'm home on my dad's computer the ads aren't there.  Weird.


Anyway, the ads were kinda large.  They didn't bother me too much, but I have been noticing that zaadz is putting more and more advertisements on their site.  At least they're good companies. 


I think that as long as there's no “punch the monkey” ads on zaadz, I'll be happy.


Kelly

Re: What do you think?

Are those ads or my bookmarks? Ashoka, Kiva, Oxfam… I love it! :-)

It's perfect how Zaadz filters interesting sites for me. I'm always on the lookout for smart ways to do something for the world and this fits the bill perfectly. It's a win-win-win  for Zaadz, our userbase and the advertisers if you ask me.

The fact that they narrow the content column is IMHO a good thing since I always thought the Zaadz layout slightly too wide in terms of content anyway.

My only quibble is that the 2/5 ads are US centric. I'd love to have a voice in the US presidental elections next year and I'm all for making poverty history but alas… So a second vote for targeted ads.

Re: What do you think?

~

PS. just to NOTE what i wrote above referes only to profile page… everywhere else like here
on pods, blogs, Mail, etc r perfect just the way they r n love them as big n on the side as is… 

so again its only the profile would be cool if its nicer visually as i alredy wrote in the previous post ^.^

Re: What do you think?

~

OK i found the solution…  to have our profile similar like on the current zaadz page but we
have a choice to customize middle (left) part but on the right we have the Sponsored ads as
they r right now ^.^

~

Re: What do you think?

I share many of the overall “concerns” and “complaints” mentioned thus far. 

Quality of the advertisers?  Not at all.  You guys get major rubs for quality of advertisers, it says as much about us/Zaadz as it does the advertisers.  Good job.

I'm not thrilled about the shove to the left, even if it has made for greater Real Estate for the good stuff, it just looks out of balance and/or cluttered.  And I also agree that the actual photos are too large.

I'd lean to more of a centering effect (or as one person said, put the ads toward the bottom of the page).  I think being set toward the bottom would have an additional effect, since the ads aren't right directly put in our faces, it creates curiosity or a willingness to scroll down the bottom to see what is there.  The current orientation feels like visual infringement, and makes me less fuzzy feeling.

The new intro/splash page?  It's visually pleasing and nice that there is more of “us”, my hope is that it will truly be democratized and the arguements that occur over the pods page don't come up for the splash page. 

“It's always the same couple of pods”

“The little start up pods don't seem to get much showing”

I can also envision “the featured Zaadzsters are always the same BIG members with over 1,000 friends”.

And no disrespect to the Integral folks, but I would hate it to appear to be that Zaadz was somehow a function of the Wilberites and Integralists, or for that matter, any large cohesive group that found a home here.

Again, it isn't about anything or anyone in particular, I guess it would be nice to see Zaadz, The Republic be a truly democratic representation of a “nation” we say we'd like to be. 

Know what I mean?

It's good conscientious work folks, cheers to the entire team, and thanks for offering a truly open forum to voice our likes and dislikes.

Thank you all!

–D.

Re: What do you think?

Thanks you ALL for your kind thoughts and great suggestions. I can't tell you how much it means to me that you care enough to contribute; I love knowing that this community looks out for each other. So thank you.

I'll address a few of the major points.

The size of the ads, as you might guess, has to do with revenue , and we decided that widening the site to make room for them made more sense than trying to cram them in around the corners. Also, you'll notice that we've removed all the Google ads which were sprinkled about. in favor of these (to my mind more visually appealing!) image-based ads.

We've tried to make sure they're good company: you'll notice, that we ask for simple buttons, much like the profile pictures. The ads aren't flashy and are intended to integrate well with the rest. Just think of them as a few more generous benefactors who pay so that the rest of us can use the services for free. :)

And a few specific responses:

Wendy and Swat? Thank you, deeply. You've no idea how we appreciate your support. :)

cobalt? A deep bow for you to getting this discussion started. (An aside: Zaadz is continually evolving and we'll definitely take into consideration  your reminders about disable users. Thank you for that.) I'm curious about your feelings about corporations and how you'd feel if a larger business offered to back Zaadz, but for now I'll just harken back to your earlier recommendation of premium membership. We do plan on offering an ad-free version in the not-too-distant future, and we'll definitely keep you updated on when that happens. So be patient! We're trying. :)

Phil. Thank you, too, for your generosity. I wrote a little about the reasons for the size above, and hopefully people will eventually get used to the “clutter.” Most of us read magazines and newspaper without complaining of full-page spreads and ads between articles, and we've got far less space than that devoted to our sponsors. It's partially a matter of perspective.

Andy. Again, it comes down partially to a matter of revenue, and balancing the needs of the community with the ability of Zaadz to, well, simply exist. But thank you, again, for the tips. Once more, we did widen the site, so the only thing that's changed is the percentage of space… but I understand. It takes a little getting used to.

Princess: You're wonderful. Excellent suggestions, and thank you so much, as always, for your thoughtfulness.

Don John! Hahaha! Your post cracked me up. Now THAT is creative criticism. Though you wouldn't do that to a member of the site, would you? Think how poor Byron Katie feels! And Kiva isn't yucky. Really. They've definitely done more to change the world than I have. :) I love your idea of horizontal implementation, though. Hm. We'll think about that. And perhaps splashing them in different areas might help, too. As to deleting them… well, premium memberships are on their way.

Darshan: The placement is again, a revenue issue. Bottom space isn't exactly valuable. But thank you for, again, seconding the 'centering' option.

As to the new landing page… the featured Zaadzsters are randomized; as far as I know, as long as you have a photo on the site, you'll end up there. There may be some preference toward Ambassadors, but that's it. As to the pods and comments… we're currently pulling from the new 'hot' page, which merely identifies the posts and discussions that have gotten the most attention over the past day. We could certain change that to feature those that were most recently updated (clicking on the 'explore' link on the landing page currently gets you that), which would help showcase smaller or less active pods.

(And, um, the nation thing was an April Fool's joke. I think it's a good thing for everyone that incorporated companies can't be states. Otherwise we'd really have Wal-mart to worry about. ;)



And for everyone… well, I'll be quiet now, and see what else you have to say.

Re: What do you think?

Yes, I noticed the ads.  I like them because they are in line with the aims of Zaadz, development of conscious capitalism.  I used to wonder, “Why is Zaadz not a .org?”  Now I see Zaadz as a .com.  To my way of thinking these ads are a step forward because they are evidence of an emerging network of conscious enterprises in the real marketplace.  And I deeply appreciate their presence.  I think these businesses can be a real blessing to us all, if they stay true to their highest aims, and it is a joy to be part of a network that supports them.  I had never heard of Kiva before, and I think they are super, and they will probably be using some of my money, as they say in Zaadzland, “sometime in the near future.” 

I don't mind the ads placement.  I appreciate the wider page.  It's all good.  I really think Cobalt has some important contributions here, and those would be my priority.  This is a wonderful opportunity to build in the integrity, to create inclusiveness, to live the love.  I wonder what changes will come about in relation to making changes that make it easier for all people to use the interface? 

Somebody suggested making the icons be the same size as our member icons, and that sparked a WEIRD IDEA for me (hang onto your hat, I'm thinking new paradigm here):  would it be a cool idea if the advertisers actually were memebers of Zaadz just like we are? 

When you live in a community and you go to the market, you get to chat with the green grocer, right? 

How this might work….hmm…. ok, I'm interested in Kiva, so I click on it.  I go to the profile page of Mary Jones, Kiva Representative.  On her profile is all the intro info that Kiva would want people to see right away if the link went directly to Kiva as it does now.  The belly button of the profile page would, of course, be a link to the actual Kiva site.  Also, there would be a real person to talk to, and this person would be sharing and growing with all us Zaadsters and blogging about her growth as an investment adminstrator and what she is learning about microloans and grassroots economic development and we can talk to her as a real person and a friend. 

Of course, Kiva wouldn't want to be an extra click back.  Any ad person worth their salt would tell you that's a bad deal.  But on the other hand, there would be this wonderful presence in a community that is ready to welcome them and really establish some ties.  Maybe community changes when the marketplace changes?

That's my Daily Weirdness Words, thank you for listening!  :)

Re: What do you think?

That is a stunning idea, Martha.  It is right in line with the principles of The Cluetrain Manifesto, in terms of keeping in close touch with clients and one's customers.  See www.cluetrain.com

Re: What do you think?

Martha writes:  “Somebody suggested making the icons be the same size as our member icons, and that sparked a WEIRD IDEA for me (hang onto your hat, I'm thinking new paradigm here):  would it be a cool idea if the advertisers actually were memebers of Zaadz just like we are?”

I'd just like to respectfully speak to this for a second…

This is something that I think we need to be careful of.  The idea of “sponsored members” which can easily lead to sponsored pods.  I've seen this happen in other social networking sites, my experience most notably with my time spent on Livejournal.  It got really ugly.  For one thing, if you have actual organizations as members (and not simply the people behind them) believe it or not this can carry a stigma. Many people don't want to carry a sponsor as a friend for the feeling of falsehood of this friendship.  I realize Martha, part of your suggestion is that individuals from the companies become Zaadz members, but that is already possible now, and without a dime spent.  Those individuals can promote the organizations that they belong to.  Thus we are able to select these people as friends based on the quality of who they are as people.

I guess my concern becomes more when we have sponsored pods or lets say a “sponsored individual” starts a pod.  It follows that these sponsors start exerting control over what is said in these pods.  Someone doesn't like a sponsor or a sponsor's product/organization, and there becomes a long thread where someone voices their displeasure over the product or organization. The sponsor then begins removing and/or preventing the dissent in the first place.

I'll give you two examples one real and one hypothetical: The real, Livejournal had a sponsored community for the Michel Gondry film The Science of Sleep.  Now one might say “who would have a problem with a nice little Indie film like that?”  Answer, a lot of people.  Not only did people dislike the fact that they felt they were being advertised to, but they couldn't come out and say “I think Michel Gondry's work sucks, and here's why.”  The advertiser exerted direct control over who was saying what, when and how.  It also ended up turning into a mutual appreciation society where you had individuals who were obviously plants stating their love for the movie. How could you tell they were plants? They were the only ones that had seen the movie because it hadn't been released.  Oddly enough, the advertisers had such a miserable experience, the community was shut down before the release of the film.  Folks who didn't like the overt manner that they were being advertised to started a campaign to boycott the film. 

My hypothetical speaks to the idea of “that couldn't happen here at Zaadz.”  Imagine for a second that Rhonda Byrne and the folks behind The Secret decide to become a sponsored friend or they sponsor a pod.  Are you starting to see where this is going?  I could see something like this happening simply because The Secret is really something that a lot of people have spoken with great affection and love and belief in, while others have called it “cat poop”.  Will people be able to voice their opinions openly in a Secret sponsored pod?  Great! Then why do advertisers want to spend dollars to have people sitting around saying that it is “cat poop”?  If they prevent that from being said, then we have a problem. 

I think we have a good example of how keeping things down to an individual level works here at Zaadz in folks like Oren Stambouli and Artist X.  Here are two folks who are supported because they are grassroots, the real deal.  If someone doesn't like something that they are doing, folks don't bother to come out and say “your project sucks”.  They simply don't voice an opinion.  Folks will respect the grassroots level of effort in play.  If they do like a project, people will join up and support the cause.

I guess what this boils down to is when you start having money spent to influence people's opinion, it starts coloring the opinion people have of you and your product, and your ability to share that opinion.  I'm certainly not saying this to poo-poo your idea, Martha, I'm speaking to things I have already seen and the lessons that can be learned from history.

Respectfully,

Darshan

Re: What do you think?

Darshan,

as always, thanks for your excellent feedback! i can totally relate with you since i'm the one who called The Secret as ”cat poop.” but there's more to it than just the smelly phrase :)

now allow me to answer some of your concerns….

“I guess what this boils down to is when you start having money spent to influence people's opinion, it starts coloring the opinion people have of you and your product, and your ability to share that opinion.”

i understand that this could be a slippery slope. however, let me take a slightly different standpoint on this.

what's wrong with influencing people if your purpose and message is to promote a more conscious way of doing things? what's wrong with spending money on influencing people if this is done with utmost care and compassion? what's wrong with promoting your product or services if your intention is to make people's lives better?

politics is all about influencing people. the media is all about influencing people. society is all about influencing people. business is all about influencing people. we influence each other all the time. influencing is not a one-way street. in fact, people (customers, clients, consumers) have more power in influencing businesses than the other way around. how many times have we heard of stories of businesses bending to the whims of their customers? that's why as consumers, we have the individual and the collective power to transform business inside-out. and one way of doing this is to open the channels of communication. this is also one of the first steps in making capitalism more conscious.

what i'm trying to say is: we have to reset our thinking and ditch the idea that once people start spending money then their integrity is compromised. there maybe some truth to this, but i think this is an unfair way of treating people who do business across the board. i think a more constructive attitude towards this is:

“gee, they're spending money to hear from us, they care on what we think, they are doing their best to be transparent, they are opening up the channels of communication, maybe i'll return the favor and take this opportunity to give them a piece of my constructive criticism so they can improve their product/service even more.”

but i hear you, bro. this is a very delicate balancing act on the part of the people who are doing business (e.g. sponsors). we can generalize and paint worst case scenarios, but i think that it would boil down to how they would run their channels of communication (e.g. blogs, pods, forums). the more they are in tuned with the principles of building virtual communities, the more they'd be able to take advantage of constructive criticisms and continue to do good business.

on people's part however, they should expect to be “censored” if their feedback is simply “you suck,” because those kinds of feedback don't add value to ANY conversation. there are other avenues to vent one's frustration (e.g. on their personal blogs, etc.) and as long as they stay within the bounds of the terms of our community, then all is fair play :)

and speaking of influencing people, this reminded me of one of my favorite quotes from MLK:

“A genuine leader is not a searcher for consensus but a molder of consensus.”

Re: What do you think?

I've been gone all day–today was our big Egg Hunt, and of course the Bunny Fan was hard at work.  It was very successful, and about 350 of the world's cutest little kids enjoyed hunting 4,825 plastic eggs and raiding 40 Easter baskets, but I'm digressing.

I was really glad to catch Darshan's and C4~Chaos' comments on my weird idea.  What happens usually is that I come out with one of my ideas and absolutely nobody says anything, and then somebody changes the subject.  And so I was scrolling down and found my entry, and the scroll bar looked like it was near the end, and I was thinking, “Rats!  What's wrong with me?”  and then I saw Darshan's comments!  Yay!

So about Darshan's comment.  Yes, I really do see that you raise an important point.  What stands out most for me is that, in framing the idea, I hadn't sufficiently considered the various levels of development of members in a large community.  Some people will be open to subtle differences in types of dialogue that they undertake, and some will, as Darshan points out, be more categorical in their thinking, and simply be offended by advertising. 

Thinking about the Michel Gondry (I love Gondry!) example for a minute, what comes up for me is:  Isn't it unethical to post “raves of fans” reviews when they really are movie insider's and staff writeups?  And I think we, at Zaadz, would be uncomfortable with this type of misrepresentation.  In the first place, this is not “reverence, compassion and respect,” which is the way we are asked to regard each other in the Terms of Use doc that C4 had mentioned. 

So, ok, it sounds like that now I've come around to where Darshan predicted the discussion would go, and it's my assertion that “this wouldn't happen on Zaadz.”  But I think Darshan is correct.  I think some version of the scenarios would happen anyway.  Because it's not a perfect world, and because “reverence, compassion and respect” are my active and honored ideals, but I'm just a human being, and I'm just not going to live up to them 24/7.  Sometimes things get screwed up.

Please consider these clarifications– It's about having a relationship with a human being who works for that company, and only through that person with the company itself.  What is valuable, constructive, and sacred about the conversation between the company representative and the customer?  How can that dialogue be created and maintained in such a way that the highest needs of both are supported and met, if possible? 

I'm going to say something here, and if this is the only quote people will remember about me after I die, then I'm just gonna have to live forever because it sounds so stupid, but I'm going to say it anyway:  paradigm shifts aren't easy.  (I think I just got a door prize for being the 777,777,777th person to have read Kuhn.)  My field is communication, and I deeply value dialogue–particularly civic dialogue, you know, the capacity for people of differing political groups to speak to each other respectfully and meaningfully.  And what's coming up for me here is that there is also a civic discourse of the marketplace that needs to be valued and understood.  Perhaps people feel intense distaste for advertising because that discourse has been perverted, misused and forgotten. 

My model for this idea was only that of the mother chatting with the greengrocer.  These are two people in the same community, using the same economic system with equality and mutual respect.  So, I guess after thinking about it and writing this, I will hang in there with my weird idea, keeping it out there, and as C4 wisely cautions, thinking it should be done very carefully.  And thanks, Darshan, for the dialogue and the wise council, because it's important to see both the road and the rocks!

Re: What do you think?

i like the idea of the organizations having membership pages on zaadz as well actually. on myspace many commercial groups have their own commercial pages and i enjoy that being around. i like the idea of it interfacing with zaadz.

i personally would rather have even the same sponsor ads at the top of my page under the zaadz basic stuff. sorta like on the i-i pod and how they do it (integral institute). having it be a banner centered thing would be fine for me. i actually enjoy having the ads be more humane and less about big hummers and such.

i would personally be fine with ads for the new gm small cars around for example, if they rel

i love the idea of going through corporate profiles actually for conscious organizations. love the idea being able to do that on the site rather than leaving it and then having links to their stuff if i want to go. myspace has the different film pages and such. would love to see zaadz do the same thing for peaceful warrior, secret, etc… etc… yah, even the controversial ones or the ones which some of us would like and others not so much.

love that byron katie's new book is advertised here. not necessarily planning to read it, but love seeing it. i don't know that premium memberships should necessarily HAVE to have no ads unless people request it. at some point if i were paying to support zaadz then it would be nice to maybe be able to turn the ads on or off as desired, but i love seeing what is going on. what companies are supporting zaadz, and what service groups or even business groups exist around the various moves towards conscious capitalism and conscious consumerism. so to give them both ads and profile presences i have no issue with personally. if i were being flooded with ads in my in box that would be more of a bother to me, but if i can search them or there is a different tab for companies that i can wander their profile, i love that idea personally.

-d

Re: What do you think?

Hi Siona

I do love the sponsors though.  Great companies!

Don't get me wrong.  My creative criticism was only directed at the location, not to the quality of the companies advertised.  I hope I didn't hurt their feelings.

Thanks for providing this forum. 

Much love!
John

Re: Featured Friend

Joshua? Love the “Ads by Zaadz” –instead of Google–idea. Brilliant. Keep your eyes out; you may see someting soon. ;) The sponsored pages or listings, too, are a great idea. The zPages are overdue for a rehaul, anyway, and I like the notion of including premium listings. Thank you!

Re: What do you think?

I love WHO the sponsors are.

I hate (and, yes, that's a strong word :) the size and number.

From an advertising perspective, it lacks the simplicity and elegance of the original Zaadz layout and is way too overpowering. 

While I'm supposed to notice them (that's what they're paying Zaadz for), they completely distract and detract from the Zaadz experience overall.  I end up in visual overload - on every single page of my Zaadz experience.  Not fun.  :(

Re: What do you think?

Just a very quick two bits.. I'm supposed to be packing!

I noticed the ads. Didn't mind them. I like that they were visually appealing for the most part. A bit big perhaps, but I'm fine with where they are, and centering might be good - I'd actually like to see a prototype page before I voted on this one.

I did like many of Darshan's comments about the democratization of the splash page.

Which brings me to the splash page.
I like it, and…

It feels like it is aimed at 'the already converted' i.e. Zaadzters.

If I stumbled across this page and did not know about Zaadz - I suspect I might just be put off by the plethora of information there. I never like such pages - this one is a good one of these, but…

As a Zaadzter I  co like it, because I know what's what and it's a great place to go to see what is what etc.

But – I loved the earlier page - I think it is what got me join it in the first place. I liked having the mission/zaadz seed piece fairly upfront. And it was an unusual splash page, my interest was partly tweaked because it was unusual - in design and content. I am not sure that the new splash page is as inviting for first-timers.

Love to all, thanks Siona for sifting through all these suggestions from everyone!

Sandra

Re: What do you think?

I think the ad placements and choice of sponsor’s look and feel great!  I also enjoy seeing global mind shift as a featured friend.  For a future pursuit you may want to look into the David Suzuki foundation as a featured friend and/or sponsor… just a suggestion.

The choice of sponsors definitely seems to open things up…

Re: What do you think?

I'm the founder of alonovo.com, and I think it is nearly impossible to shift to a sponsorship and advertising model that doesn't offend someone. We provide an important service and have a significant underlying mission (the connection of corporate behavior with corporate profit), while generating funding for over 90 non-profit organizations.

Even one.org -which we all recognize from their early campaigns using well-known entertainment personalities causes a mild exception with me. First, despite multiple communications with them I have never received an email or any other communication. Secondly, after Hurricane Katrina, one.org was allocating funding to an organization that if I recall was directly connected to Pat Robertson, which caused alarm from my perspective in terms of whether the funds would benefit the people directly impacted by the disaster.

There is no question that Zaadz has to be viable and attract amazing people (like Siona!) to it's core team, which benefits the entire community. To do this as a .org would mean either charging subscriptions to the community, or competing (as a non-profit) with other organizations like Oxfam, Doctors Without Borders, United for a Fair Economy and other groups doing amazing work.

The decision I made for alonovo.com to be a mission focused for-profit was to avoid competing for scarce funds for the organizations we seek to serve. And we have not embraced a subscription model as I feel guiding our purchases toward companies that are evolving to balance life, planet and profit should be used by as many people as possible with money not to become a barrier for use.

I do feel that Zaadz must be vigilant in its approach to sponsor and ad selectivity, a one misstep can cause significant community erosion. One alternative I have seen used well is to provide a subscription model such that a subscribed member does not see ads, nor are ads rendered around the pods they maintain.

–George

Re: What do you think?

George!  Yes!  I think you are a great example of exactly what I was thinking about!  I read your post to the discussion, and your business came up naturally as part of the discussion, so I followed the link to your profile first, and then later to Alonovo, and looked around and thought, “Hey, this looks very interesting!  What if next time I decide to buy a book from Amazon, I route the purchase through Alonovo?”  I'll look into it. 

These are some thoughts that popped into my head when I read your post:  One thing that amazes me is the whole concept of “for profit” and “not for profit.”  My experience was that I was on the board of a “sidewalk university.”  It was a beautiful nonprofit whose goal was providing basic education and literacy work for very poor or literally homeless people, and then supporting them to go as far as they could go.  We actually had a couple of clients who got as far as four-year college!  Often, we really had to get creative about payroll.  Some people thought that “nonprofit” meant that we didn't want to make any money!  How silly!  Any business needs to pay the rent, utilities, insurance, payroll, etc.  And people thought that grants and state programs would “give” us the money!  How naive!  We contract to do services like anyone else.  We got contracts with state agencies to train the disabled, just like Lockheed gets contracts with the government to make aircraft/weapons.  To my mind, what is the difference? 

Of course, a public company like Lockheed sells stock.  Private companies have private ownership of stock.  Hmmm.  Maybe literacy programs should sell stock?  What a concept!  :)  Thank you for stimulating my thinking, and God bless you! 

Re: What do you think?

Hi Martha,

I believe that access to education is a foundation of a real and participatory democracy, and congratulations for working to bring it to people that are left behind in what has become what I characterize as “Darwinistic” capitalism. It's very noble work.

Kind Regards, George

Re: What do you think?

Goodness, all. Do you know what this discussion does to my heart? Thank you so, so much for your thoughts and engagement and care. It's beautiful to see.

Again, one of Zaadz's core principles, one of the premises on which Brian founded the company, is that of conscious capitalism. I think this term means different things to different people, but I'll put out my own quick and dirty definition. For me, conscious capitalism merely means being aware of how one makes and spends one's money, and being aware of the relationships of economics and the economy.

So this ongoing dialogue is a perfect example.

I loved Martha's response. I think she brilliantly captures what this small company is trying to do. We're all involved in a society and a system that relies on money to facilitate our living; I might not be skilled at sewing my own clothes or have the resources to grow my own food, but I have other talents that I can trade for money that will allow me to be fed and clothed. (This is capitalism in a nutshell, and I, personally, see nothing wrong with having such freedom!) However, it feels to me that many of us have become incredible detached from the threads and connections of these relationships… and so conscious capitalism involves bringing that attention and reverence back. So Martha's comment about having a conversation with the green grocer is so perfect. I want to be involved with those people I exchange money with! I want to know that what I pay for a new sweater is going to help feed someone's children. I want to deepen these connections and make them real.

What I DON'T want is the inauthenticity that Darshan worries about. If we were to have sponsors with profiles, I'd want both the sponsors to be authentic and transparent in their motives (they're merely trying to get the word out about their products and services, and, as ~C4 wrote, no more or less guilty of influence than anyone else), and, at the same time, for the community to show the same sort of respect and understanding that we'd show anyone else. It's a matter of us ALL opening our minds and hearts–if we don't, how can we expect others to? Changing the face of business involves change on ALL our parts. For business to change, the community must as well.

George? Thank you, for your sweet words and the recognition that no one (heh- especially not me!) is perfect. And again, as I wrote above, Zaadz consciously set out to be a business. We could have been a non-profit, but we've got the ambitious goal of changing the face of capitalism to a model in which we can all make money doing what we love. And thank you, deeply, for your point about completing for funds.

Sandra! Your point about the new page… thank you. We'll add back a bit more of our “Change the World” vibe this week. And David? A Thousand Names for Joy is incredible. Maybe you could have Farland pass on her copy when she's done… I think you'd really enjoy it.

I'll say two more quick things.

Zaadz is a free service (and, as we've promised, always will be!). I can't help but be curious about whether any of the resentment about ads is due to the fact that the complainers feel a little discomfort about getting something for free, and that the ads push for the awareness of this fact. Again, the advertisers are what allow us to keep the community open, in the same way that taxes are what allow for the parks and community centers in our cities and towns. To my mind, a few friendly supporters are something to be welcomed.

Finally, I'll point out, again, that most of us buy newspapers and magazines with far, far more advertising packed between their pages than you'll ever seen on Zaadz, and we don't seem to have any problem being distracted from the articles. Again, it's all matter of perspective. :)

Much love, all, and thank you so, so so much for participating in this conversation. It's already growing rich and we've only just begun.

Re: What do you think?

I'm here because of conscious capitalism. For me, it's more than awareness, it's something I've dedicated my all to over the last 3 years. It's my work and a large part of my leisure.

I made that decision because someone made me aware of the power. He'd practised and proven it, then became marginalised and homeless, to the point of wanting to end his own life, in a protest fast.

His ideas had circulated, building academic careers for others while he remained near destitute and yet, as far as I can see he still remains well out in front in his visionary thinking 

I decided to intervene, become part of it to the point of working without income and after 3 years I believe we're on the brink of something really big.

I really hope we can now move forward with this now together, because this site, above all, is where the concepts seem to be most widely understood. An economic paradigm for inclusive capitalism in which no-one is disenfranchised or disposable.

 
  

Re: What do you think?

Wow!  Your comments got my thoughts going about academe!  What about the concept of “conscious academia”?  What about the tenure track professors who do their social research via the cooperation of the disenfranchised, make a very decent living from it, perhaps become world famous, and do so very little to actually impact the social issues, and the lives of the people, that they research? 

That's why I think the service-learning movement is very important–also applied research! 

What has been traditionally valued the most in academe is “pure” research.  Perhaps some fundamental value shifts toward showing some kind of positive social impacts through applied research would result in a less exploitative professional culture.  –And I'm certainly not saying that ALL academic research is “exploitative,” I'm just saying that I've seen a bit that is. 

My point of bringing this topic up in this discussion is just to say that academics have basically been as single-minded about taking their “bigger half” of benefit from social transactions as the capitalists–it's just that people don't notice, and it's taken for granted.  It's a privilege of class.  A paradigm change will effect us all–as Siona says, we all will see change and need to change.

zaadzster ad testimonials

I'd like to second the idea of finding some way to have a link to zaadzster testimonials to the sponsors. 

or perhaps add a line on profiles where members can list their favorite orgs to give to (or favorite socially conscious companies– including which Zpages companies they frequent).

oh and I have no problem with the layout as it is– i'm pretty used to that ad format from blogs, and it's nice to see orgs I'm in favor of already up there…

Re: What do you think?

. I can't help but be curious about whether any of the resentment about ads is due to the fact that the complainers feel a little discomfort about getting something for free, and that the ads push for the awareness of this fact. Again, the advertisers are what allow us to keep the community open, in the same way that taxes are what allow for the parks and community centers in our cities and towns. To my mind, a few friendly supporters are something to be welcomed.

Siona - I feel this is a very important point you have raised.

I for one loved the recent 'encouragement' to Amabassadors to get out there and support new Zaadzters on the Support pods etc. I do feel there is a lot of this going on already - Zaadzters supporting Zaadzters, - I hope taking some of the weight off the team. but maybe this can be amped up a bit? The encouragement at least - something from the Team to remind us all who are here that we are totally connected, and that whatever one Zaadz person does affects all of us. 

I don't feel discomfort about this incredible service being free - but I am always aware if I feel I'm just 'using' it and not putting something back.

I like the ads for the most part, and indeed I realise that Zaadz has to do this to grow and expand – and they can open my eyes to some new and wonderful things going on in the world ( I know the David Suziki foundation, so I second that one!)

Sending love from Paddington Station… London ;-)
Sandra

Re: What do you think?

Marta,

Answering your question above, to some extent this is underway with the Skoll sponsored  unit within  the Said business school in Oxford,  Pierre Omdiyars investment in Tufts and programmes which already exist in Duke and Stanford.

You'll also find advocacy in the writings of Mohammed Yunus:

http://www.grameen-info.org/bank/socialbusinessentrepreneurs.htm

To my mind what's come to pass in the last few years has been confused by the all encompassing title of social enterprise, particularly in the UK where charitable, cooperative and social business are all lumped together under this description.

What's emerging now is a view that  profit for social purpose  is a second generation form of social enterprise, whereas I believe that it's been submerged by this branding.

Being aware of  the need for a school of excellence to catalyse social or conscious capitalism elswhere, my own organisation recently included such a component in an overseas development proposal targetting the poorest elements of society.
 

Re: What do you think?

The whole spirit of this place now seems to me to be so very much like so many other nice and earth-friendly websites that try to be portals as well as hosts for small groups and provide something like email service.  Really, there are many many out there and I hate to see the unique qualities of zaadz get a cursory glance by new visitors for the colorful and bold graphic ads really get far more attention than content for the site.  As to those who would rather pay a fee to have the ad-free option, I'm sooooo there on that.  When flickr.com started up it was at a premium price for the time ($42 yearly as a PRO account with that designation by our buddy icons.  The percentage of members when flickr had under 115,000 total members that became PRO accounts was really high.  That showed the design staff just how important an issue ads can be.

Granted, I hear many of the posters here want the ads AS content.  So maybe staff will hear from those folks but others may just quietly not visit as much anymore, or reduce their exploration of the whole of the site.  I have no objection to sponsors, but it is making pages look like giant billboards, with the sponsors far more important than the “fine print” (ie. us!)  I wish it was more like the experience of listening to National Public Radio.  There, the content and programing is far and away the majority of the experience and the “ads” are very subtle tags at the end of certain feature segments.  I can guarantee you that many if not most of public radio listeners take time to notice “who” sponsors public radio.  The PR value in that is immense and there are socially-conscious members who go out of their way to patronize those sponsors.  That example I just gave is the jist of what I'd prefer to see for sponsors on zaadz.

I guess there is not much interest at all, as far as I can tell but for one person (staff) responding to the concept of making sure that zaadz is user-friendly to those who have vision impairments, or maybe cognitive (confusion layout and hard to navigate) and those who must use assistive technology like switches instead of keyboards, or a voice recognition program like DragonNaturally Speaking to read the pages aloud and to enter comments back into discussions. 

Ultimately, if I cannot recommend a web site to MOST folks I care about, then I tend not to stay with that site myself.  As I said before, I know more than one member who has not been coming to the site since the changes, due to the design changes.  I'll go away now and not bring up web accessibility again unless there is some interest in doing that.  RIght now

Re: What do you think?

Wow Z-sters!  Love all the discussion, and Yes!, for the gratitude and openness by Siona (et al) in receiving it.

My only comment (as I am in agreement and understanding with the thread) is to see if there is any way to slightly shrink the sponsor ads.  I personally like the size of the “register to vote” ad which is still attention-getting.  I would also wonder if there is a way to put them inside a light grey box (grid) similar to the Friends format in order to preserve some uniformity and visual crispness.  Since each ad is different in its design (some has more white space, some have borders), the presentation seems cluttered and squished.  I personally find it distracting….

my two pennies

xo
~ Stacy

Thank Godz for Zaadz ;-)

Re: What do you think?

I love the constructive, positive energy of this discussion!  Thank you for that.  I can come back here and think again. 

Today I was thinking about Teenie Dakini's comments on the ad sizes, and as I read her thoughts remembering that I've thought those very thoughts myself. 

What comes to mind for me on the issue is how important our attention is–how important our consciousness is.  What we choose to focus on is tremendously important. 

Did you ever notice how you can see lots of things in a setting, or focus in on just one tiny thing?  And how the mood you're in, or what you think you are trying to get done–how that will more or less determine what you are able to see? 

All of this is about consicousness.  I'm guessing that the Dalai Lama doesn't get caught in the “I didn't see that because I was trying to do this” kind of trap like I do.  The awareness, aliveness (awareness of all and making choices) in the present moment–an incredible experience for us as humans, yes?

So, my question is–how do we see the Zaadz page?  How does it meet our consciousness, and how does our conscious awareness meet it?  And what do the ads have to do with that?  Donno if it's answerable.  It's just, uh, a process question…and a values question…

Re: What do you think?

I love them!!! At first I ignored them or glanced at them occacionally, just assuming that they were normal ads bombarding into my conscience.  But then I remembered that Zaadz is no MySpace or Facebook, and I started to take notice. Now I have joined some of the websites, sent them along to friends, and even found their personal pages on other sites. Its great!

Re: What do you think?

Zaadz Web Whizzes…..

You Rock! Love the light gray border outlining the ads and uniform spacing in between…. I just noticed (because it had become a not-so distracting design).  I would still encourage (in the future if you can)…  the graphics be closer to the size of “Register to Vote”….  actually now that I look at them, it must be the white space (or lack thereof) that bugs me.  I know, humor me, because this probably isn't a big deal… I'm just sharing ;-)  Byron Katie seems ok to me, but ONE and Kiva stand out for different reasons:  ONE too tight on sides,not enough space and KIVA because of the heavy outline. You probably can't change these, so the comments are for the future.  And again, this is a “tweak” comment…..

Again, I *love* that you all ask for feedback AND then actually muddle through it appreciatively… cheers to you all!

~ Stacy

Re: What do you think?

OK, I'll fess up, at first, when I saw the adverts, I was unhappy at the change; change is hard any way you look at it when you're comfortable with the way things are, but you warned us all as soon as we landed here at  zaadz, this was a money generating venture. ( That in itself was scary, because of the “baggage” around capitalism.) But I never thought it would be this nice of a change. Once I looked more closely at who the sponsors were, I was overjoyed. Even the advertisers on zaadz are inspiring!  Just awesome you guys!
The visual effect seems to be gentle, not overpowering with the nice framing.

Looking at Byron Katies book title makes me  think of us here with all our differences yet gathered under one forward thinking change the world zumbrella

Zaadz….a thousand names for joy. (…..and more)

Re: What do you think?

lightenup: Oh my.

I have to jump in and say that I loved your comment.

“Looking at Byron Katies book title makes me  think of us here with all our differences yet gathered under one forward thinking change the world zumbrella…

Zaadz….a thousand names for joy. (…..and more)”

That's been one of my favorite books this year (which is saying a lot!) and I can't tell you how much I appreciate the connection you made.

Thank you thank you thank you….

And thank you to everyone else, too! We're still reading and processing and sorting… and still so deeply touched and grateful for all your input and passion and care.  Thank you.

Re: What do you think?

I changed my mind.  I like the ads.  They're pretty.  I also think they are cool companies.


Kelly

Re: What do you think?

I love the ads stacked like that like a bookmark, aesthetically pleasing.  I support zaadz and the sponsors that I 'can support.'  Thank you!  Great job and congratulations!  Samme

Re: What do you think?

Hello all.

Well it didn't take long but I've gotten use to seeing the ads and don't really mind them anymore. 

I do have a suggestion about the zaadz splash page though.   I think the ads should be removed from the opening page.  It seems to me that the main point when having new visitors find zaadz, is to get them to join.  And having the ads there can take there attention away from finding out what zaadz is all about. 

But as far as the rest of the splash page goes.  I love it!

Peace-0ut(side)
John

Re: What do you think?

…Yes, definatley.  I am agreement with this point made by Don John. 

Re: What do you think?

Howdy.

Thanks, Zaadz Team, for making this service available.

Regarding advertisements- I’m on dialup. Mighty slow dialup- about 33kbps. The pages load quite slowly. Quite.

And I don’t mind the ads. Actually, I kind of like them. Katie has such a pretty smile- and those pretty pastel colours really just frame up the page so nice. And then there’s Kiva- whom I had already known of- like a good pal over there. Hi, Kiva!

I WOULD like to help out- ads or not. I wonder if there is some way that I can help Zaadz help me? I spose one option is to have paying members- sorta a account thing. Hmmm. I would like to be able to post my music (the stuff I write) and PDFs of the sheet music as well as my thoughts… I spose I would pay for that. I would also pay if it automatically enrolled me for some kind of Zaadz convention in California. There’s an idea for you there- offer ad-free content service with audio upload and a ticket to ZaadzConvention 2007 in San Francisco! WOOT!

No need to reply, hugs,
davie

Re: What do you think?

axiom: Heheheh! I love your enthusiasm. And guess what? Your idea is so excellent that I'm going to give you a ticket to the ZaadzConvention 2007. So far it'll be just you and me (dates of your choosing, Davey!) and, I suppose, anyone else who happens to show up, but I'm in the SF area and there's no reason why we can convent to our heart's delight.

Seriously, though, the paid, ads-free (and with a few potential other bells-and-whistles?) version is in the works. We're also working on site speed–you're not the only one who's been struggling and while I have to say it's a good problem to have (too many people logging in?!?), it's still something that we're working to address this week. So thank you for your quite literal patience. You'll see–or experience–a change soon.

Re: What do you think?

Hey ~ I love the new green for Earth Day. It kind of snazzes up the site!

Julia

Re: What do you think? ... Be Fearless

Hi Siona :::::::::::::::)

I'm floored by all the sponsor's Biz - thumbnail images, especially Be Fearless which hasattracted me beyond senses ~ beackoning me with with all the natural attraction of Gravity ~ hypnotyzing me @ same time …. Congrats for the gud work! Green is the best ~ real good ~ keep it up

Vish …
919391649494

                                  

Re: What do you think? ... Be Fearless

Vishnu: Thank you!

(I loved the Be Fearless one too! :) I'd never before taken the time to look into Guy Findley's work, but because we do everything we can to make sure our sponsors and advertisers are a good fit with our community, I went and listened to a number of his podcasts and and looked into his show… and I'm so glad I did. The Be Fearless image is great, but I think his program is better: Findley has a wonderfully soothing voice–he reminds me a bit of a spiritual Garrison Kiellor–and his message is wonderful. Anyway. I'm glad you enjoyed his reminder. :)

Re: What do you think?

I thought I'd go ahead and order flowers from our Organic Flowers sponsor since I needed to buy some anyway.  I just got a call from my mom and she was ecstatic!  She's 91 years old and has seen a whole heck of a lot of bouquets in her lifetime but said this was the most exquisite she's ever received. 

The pink roses were “pink, pink, pink” and the yellow roses were “soft yellow and like butter”.  The packaging was like nothing she'd EVER seen before.   She was so excited she had to call me right away.

Thank you!

Re: What do you think?

suweet!!! thanks for sharing this story. we'll make sure to pass it along to our sponsors.
and Happy Mother's Day to all moms out there :)

~C

Re: What do you think?

Jonni: Oh, goodness. This story made my heart well up. Thank you! (And tell your beautiful mother “Happy mother's day” for us. She's quite the poet.)

Re: What do you think?

I think the ads are great and hope to see a lot more of them in the future.

Re: What do you think?

What can we zaadsters do to increase Zaadz revenues?

Re: What do you think?

Hey,

It's great you have these sponsors, I just have another idea.  The Peace Alliance is on a campaign to establish a dept of Peace and Nonviolence.  I think it would be a great idea for Zaadz to support the cause, because that's what we stand for.  Here's the link:  http://www.thepeacealliance.org/ If you've seen the play the Gift of Peace, you'd be motivated.

This attributes to the Spiritual Law of attraction, so let's create PEACE!

Re: What do you think?

i'm pretty happy with the ads as they are reflective
of zaadz and our beliefs.
However- I am glad I know have Broadband -
because as someone stated earlier in the thread that
they otherwise take a long time to load and contribute
in the download price for those on limited access.

Re: What do you think?

Hi guys!

How wonderful to hear all your feedback. We truly appreciate it so much. :) Our community rocks!

Re: What do you think?

Wow, I just discovered this most substantial of all threads I have seen yet! And it seems still alive since April, so I will add a thought.

This is a tangent, but yet it's about the ads. When I print any page, the ads print vertically at the end of the printing, thus adding a page or two to my printout and wasting paper. It seems a very ungreen setup.

I don't know whether this is my browser, or something the site has programmed in, but I would like to see the ads print out horizontally!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know, I know, it's primitive and old-fashioned of me to PRINT OUT stuff, but hey, sorry, I am of the older generation who relates more to paper than to glowing screens.  :)

Maybe someone could help me out on this matter.

I have nothing substantial to contribute to the main discussion, so many profound points have been made and I am so pleased and delighted to find the Zaadz team folks such good listeners and responders, as usual. My vote: I do find the ads visually distracting, and would prefer them smaller.

Namaste, OM Bastet

Re: What do you think? <>

Seems like I am a little late to join the discussion too, but heck, its worth a shot.

I admire the premise behind Zaadz and its scholarship campaign as well.

If Zaadz is considering expanding the list of advertisers, it would be great if the Zaadz team makes sure that the products sold are fair-trade. An advertiser's textiles/clothing line should be labelled in such a manner to indicate that they were produced in a non-exploitative manner (living wages for workers).

I also crossed upon an interesting example of the social networking site Yu-wie in a friend's blog. Apparently Yu-wie gives a share of the revenue generated by advertising proportionately to members according to the  the number of visits they recieve.
–and I was thinking whether this concept can be applied to advertising on zaadz aswell, but rather than us receiving the profit, a portion of the revenue generated by the content providers will be donated to certain charitable groups.

just a thought

Thanks for reading!

(^_^)/”” be well

Re: What do you think?

Okay, I was so disturbed by the blinking ads that I had to stop what I was doing, reading one of the postings on my pod, Diving Deeper, and share here.

I found this on Think Tank written recently by Curmudgeon.
Matthew suggested he bring it here, but I don't see it so I am…

I thought I read somewhere that there would be no “animated” ads, yet is it not
animation when they blink between pictures? annoying and a waste of
bandwidth…

Re: What do you think?

Hi Sandra,

I actually feel the same way.  I think the blinking/animated ads are distracting.  I'm also disappointed that we have stated that we wouldn't allow animated ads, and then these show up :( 

I spoke with Siona about these inconsistencies and my concern.  She said that we don't make these decisions lightly, that it's never easy to compromise (i.e. choosing ads that bring us closer to paying all the bills over holding firm to our committment to keep the ads un-animated), and to let you know that you'll soon have the option to turn the ads off.

But like I said above, I agree with you.  I don't like the “blinking”.  I think it's distracting.  I'd like to see us find ways to pay the bills without compromising (what I communicated as) our values.

Your suggestions to that end would be much appreciated :)

Hugs,
~M

Re: What do you think?

Well… I totally agree

What Matthew… a problem with committment?

Dothe advertisers really want ads that annoy the viewers? I doubt it. Someone should let them know the objections. If they don't voluntarily stop the animation (that IS what it is, Matthew) the ad should be turned off by the management. I  would personally make it a point not to buy anything from an advertiser that violated the committment made tous when we joined not to have animated ads.

Re: What do you think?

I reeally like the look of the new “how to cook your life,” “be organics,” “falling fruit.tv,” “spirit at work,” and “Zen Clocks” ads.  These are simple, not flashy, fun to look at, and seem well in-tune with our values.  I hope we can do more like these and less of the “blinky” kind!

~M 

Re: What do you think?

Matthew, I'm glad I'm not the only one!

I can't remember which ads were blinking the day I saw them ( I notice today there don't seem to be any) but I am fairly sure there were two ads blinking. Now that was really distracting, and actually quite disturbing, so if it were me I'd ask for no more than one blinking ad on a page (this is quite funny for me to write. I don't know if it is the same in the U.S. but in the U.K 'blinking' is a euphemism for a swear word). 

The other possibility is that only a certain percentage of the ad be allowed to 'flash' or blink. Right now I'm looking at the Global Mindshift ad, a nice static ad with an image of the world and some words underneath. The logo, Global Mindshift, at the very bottom, could flash, or blink, perhaps, but not the whole thing.

Curiously perhaps 'animated' ads, depending on what actually is animated, might be less disturbing than blinking. e.g. same ad, the 'world' could rotate slowly, this would be far less disturbing to the eye and brain function that the whole ad flashing on and off or whatever.

I have to say, I like many of the static ads and actually look at them. If they blink, I  have a negative reaction to the company putting out the ad. Perhaps if other users agreed with me, this information could be shared with the sponsors.

Love,
Sandra

Re: What do you think?

I'm not particularly happy about advertisement in general. inspired by my annoyance with the new blinking and moving advertising strategy of some zaadz sponsors, I have written a whole blog rant on 'If I could uninvent something, what would it be? (Advertising! :)

but in short, for this discussion, I'd like to say that I find blinking and moving and ever-changing ads a quite aggressive form of advertising.

I understand that there are reasons for accepting ads here on zaadz, and that it's great to have sponsors, and money coming in and whatever else.

personally, I'm only using the free services of zaadz and I'm very happy to have that opportunity, so having a couple of ads on the pages seemed like no big deal when they started to spread a couple of month ago.

if you click on the ads, which I have done with a couple for the first time, just for the argument, you usually find a product for sale. which is the overall purpose of advertising. they are part of a sales strategy. advertising is not exactly a tool for changing the world.

so again, I see that there have been changes here on zaadz, that zaadz has gone commercial and is selling services, like an upgraded version (zaadz pro?) with ad-free pages, as I hear, and that's fine with me.

I'm not paying, I'm seeing ads, that's my deal. I still enjoy being here. just this blinking and moving and stuff - I really find that over the top, more then should be expected of us here to tolerate.

(interestingly, I just notice there is not a SINGLE blinking ad on this thread, whereas when I clicked around a bit I found pages where there were three in a row, driving me crazy just looking at the page! and yes, I AM quite sensitive to any kind of sensual disturbances… may it be noise, pains, smells or visuals… ah, and now there is one, so they seem to rotate or something…)

I just saw that some of the other members think it's great having companies sponsoring here that share their visions - hm. well, that's an aspect I haven't thought about AT ALL so far. personally I actually don't know any company that shares my vision.

being peace.
being compassionate.
being love.
with ourselves, with each other, at work, where ever we go.

companies making a difference by not being profit oriented.
people working for world peace here and now, starting with themselves, on a daily basis.
communities focussing on clarity and transparent communication.

I'm not entirely sure what the point is yet - just that advertising to me seems much more part of the problem then of the solution… I'll think about it some more.

Re: What do you think?

I just want to support Sandra’s post and say that I’m really bothered by these blinking adds.

But in the end, I think this is a pointless fight. I was against these adds in the first place, and the fact that they now blink is just another step that seems natural to me, once you engage in that path.

And I know what some people are going to say: These are spiritual adds, Zaadz needs to make monney and feed it’s member and so on. What can I say ?

Well it’s just that if this is a community that wants to change the world, then we also have to be ceative in the way we’re going to feed ourselves, and developp alternate means to do so.

I feel this is not the case: Zaadz is using the same tools as ever and is beeing swallowed.

As I’m writing now, I am disturbed by this “Pangea day, zaadz filmaker coalition” add that’s blinking. As all people living in the year 2007, I’ve developped a certain capacity to ignore commercials and screens, in order to protect my brain. But as a psychologist (and honestly, you don’t need to be a psychologist to know that!), I also know that, if I want it or not, my mind has recorded this add: it is simply creating an imprint in my brain.

Plus, it doesn’t matter if the add is made by someone on Zaadz! That is not a proof of sanity! On Zaadz, you certainly find the same proportion of people looking for money, fame and whatever than anywhere else. I know this goes against the idealization of some of us, but minus 5%, (lol) on which I can agree, I don’t think that beeing simply interested in spirituality makes us so special and above the rest of humanity.

also, It is interesting that a whole symposium on “conscious capitalism” (see:http://julianwalkeryoga.zaadz.com/blog?page=2) has been done and no one talked about an alternative to commercials.

I honnestly think that time will prove me right and that Zaadz will become a pool of social “profiles” that can be targeted by companies.

And I’ll be glad to be wrong and accept it. Time will tell.

Here’s the link to an article that develops an idea to some alternate web 2.0 financing:
http://www.masternewmedia.org/news/2007/11/03/the_peer_to_peer_manifesto.htm

This is certainly hard to imagine, but it’s a try at least.

In the end… forget the whole thing about my disapointment about the adds and the direction Zaadz is going, but please, don’t make them blink!!!!

Blinking with love,

Patrick

Re: What do you think?

Ai.

Gang? You're amazing. Thanks so much for your feedback. I don't exactly relish the distraction either, and I think our sponsors should be a little more mindful of the wishes (and eyes and potential migraines ;) of the community. I'll bring this up again. I do want to mention that we will be offering an ad-free version in January (much has to happen for this to occur, but we'll get it done!) and that this might be a testing ground to see whether Zaadz can be supported by other means than sponsors and commercials. So Patrick? We're trying!!

I do want to emphasize, too, that the direction Zaadz is going is determined, overwhelmingly, by YOU. (Fine. We on the team can start putting up all manner of ads and we could start spamming your inboxes every day with 'come buy this we need money to support the site please sign up!' messages, but I like to think that's not going to ever happen.) If you give up in the love and intention and geniuine support of this community, well, we don't have much hope, do we? It's part and parcel. I, Siona, am certainly not going to start seeing you as a pool of social profiles, and I'm committed to looking out for the community's best interests and in doing everything I can to keep the site running smoothly and the Team happy and capable of support and to providing each of you an online sanctity. I trust that, because of this, you'll keep on coming back and supporting and inspiring and empowering each other. And I trust, in the same way, that you'll keep trusting me.

Anyway. I just needed to weigh in. (And again, Patrick? Maybe you should write to the Pangea Day peeps and let them know what you think, too, though I'll certainly go ahead and pass this message along.)

Big hugs,
Siona

Re: What do you think?

Okay, I understand the rationale behind placing ads on zaadz – nothing, after all, is free. When I joined up only a few months ago I didn’t mind them, sitting quietly over on the righthand side of my screen in their discreet pastel colours and few but meaningful words, tastefully chosen. I look over now and see some of those still – the Bleep store, one of my favourites; Robin Sharma; yoga, spa… – quiet, unobtrusive. I have no problem clicking on these sorts of ads, or interacting with who- or whatever's on the other side. I am grateful to the extent that they are what permits something like zaadz (the original idea behind zaadz) to happen. But,

WE ARE NOT DEAF! THERE IS NO NEED TO BLINK THE ADS, OR ANIMATE THEM.

I will click on an ad if it's relatively unobtrusive AND if it's advertising something I'm interested in, in that order. I do not, ever, anywhere, click on a blinky or an animated. And that's not just because I have dial-up and those sorts of ads slow up the process of getting me to whatever is behind the ad's front (!). (My blog on this subject is here if you're interested.)

Re: What do you think?

I tend to agree about the animated and blinking ads.

No ad makes me want to click on it because it turns somersaults, simply because I'm not in the market for these services. If I want something I go looking and that search is not restricted to Zaadz.

I do understand that we need sponsers but I'd prefer them to be as unobtrusive as possible ie not to blink, rotate, morph or animate.

I find it especially intrusive when I post and comment because they are unavoidable when a comment box opens. At least in a large thread they are at the top and a few scrolls makes them disappear so they don't bother me when I'm reading.

Jim x

Re: What do you think?

hi to everyone,

i haven’t been on zaadz much lately, but when i logged on today i was saddened ( & distracted) by the invasion of the blinking ads. i consider this a serious problem with the zaadz experience…

I understand why zaadz believes in the need for ads (although ideally, it would morph into having a more advanced model) and can deal with the inclusion of some static ones. but think of how great it would be if zaadz could be an example of a more meditative visual experience, a web respite of sorts. the net’s current proliferation of rampant bad flashy content (amidst lots of amazing stuff as well, of course ;), means those who are online a lot are subject to eye fatigue, even if we believe we’ve become “accustomed” to it. physiologically, it’s simply tiring to have images flashing away as one tries to think, or type (let alone ponder and get meditative, as zaazdsters are here to do!)

i appreciate many of the advertisers; in fact, the tulsi tea featured in the ad that keeps seizing my right eye’s field of vision is brewing in my kitchen. furthermore, i was seriously interested in the half-price sale the ad was promoting. however, i didn’t need three different images to cycle by in the ad within a few seconds to convey the information! (can someone at zaadz marketing please pass this along to organic india? :)

yes, it’s possible for me to resize the window and “cut out” the ads on that side, but i don’t want to have to do that each time i enter a problematic page; it’s a waste of time and keystrokes. if i do so, it also means zaadz ad dollars aren’t as well spent, and i’m that not having exposure to information that might truly interest me and lead me to investigate the advertisers.

i’ve been planning to spend more time on zaadz, but the idea of such investiture is way more enticing if i’m not bombarded with animated ads-in-motion every time i visit.

hmmm: just in the time i’ve taken to write this post, my right eye has really gotten fatigued and repeatedly distracted by the animations. time to go do some eye yoga!

namaste,
c.z.

p.s.
although i’m a newbie to the thread, could i humbly suggest retitling its subject title or starting a new thread with a pointer to the discussions to date? when i searched for “flashy ads”, i got three hits to this blog, whose title confused me until i started reading the posts. when i search for “ads on zaadz” i don’t easily come across any pods with the title, just rudyan’s excellent blog posting at
http://gospelwriter.zaadz.com/blog/2007/11/ads_on_zaadz

Re: What do you think?

Everyone?

I'm just weighing in again to say that we're in the process of moving back to a much stronger no-animated-flashy-flashy-blinking-ad policy. I have to say I don't mind some of the subtler fades much, but I understand both the distraction–and even pain–that's resulted, and we'll make it clear to our upcoming sponsors that (y)our goodwill depends on their being good citizens as well.

Feel free to write to any of them to left them know of how you feel, though. I think THAT would make the most difference!

(A hypothetical question: how do you feel about community members who include animated areas or sound in their profiles or posts or messages? Should we impose a general site policy against such things? I ask only because it does seem to be an issue of respect, but some people might not know how bothered others are by these features of technology.)

Also, I suppose now might be a good time to present a little heads up about what will likely happen in January– when we'll be providing an ad-free option for the site. We'll also be introducing a top banner for the occassional sponsor who wants to step up as a larger supporter of our community. We've heard from a few organizations (some commercial, some educational) who've been interested in playing such a role.

I want to emphasize that this spot is going to go only to those who understand the community and who know what we're about; we're not going to sell the space to just anyone and we want to make sure that their art and approach fits in well with the rest of the space… and, too, that what they're offering is a valuable service, or otherwise in alignment with our values. And again, you'll always be able to opt out.

Anyway. Just some news of what's to come (she says, crossing her fingers that everyone who's written will be understanding about these decisions–or at least open to discussing them more). And again, over the next two weeks… keep an eye on that right bar. It's going to quiet down.

Phew. You're all really something, you know that? :)

Much love,
Siona

Re: What do you think?

Hello friend, in all honesty I did not even notice the blinking add until they were mentioned.  I guess in my line of work I've learned to ignore blinks, zings, flashes and so on…………
In my opinion, these adds could be way more obtrusive.  Compare these adds to ten web sites and tell me the score.  I like the way they are formatted on one side of the page, because it makes it alot easier on the eyes.  Goodness sakes, we could have adds popping out all around the screen, I'm sure glad that isn't the case.  Well advertising is the way to help keep zaadz up and running.  And I surely do not want to see zaadz stop!  so to have those adds on the side, in continuity with the personality of zaadz and nothing going to crazy - well it is what it is.  I kind of like the dancing adds, click here to win, and the peel down ones that take up the top of the screen.  O.K. I'm being sarcastic, but it is a good comparison.  I have always seen those blinking adds as christmas lights, cool, but time to move on.
take care,
Paul

Re: What do you think?

Siona, wrt

community members who include animated areas or sound in their profiles or posts or messages? Should we impose a general site policy against such things? I ask only because it does seem to be an issue of respect, but some people might not know how bothered others are by these features of technology.)

For myself, I think what people do in their z-places that we go and visit is a totally different matter from what is “in our face” no matter what page on the site we are on. I would be opposed to any policy against animation or sounds on people's own spaces. Not everyone is offended by animation or sounds in EVERY context. If people don't like them in someone's profile or other pages, they can tell the person. Or people who use them could ask for feedback. Zaadz could encourage people to ask for feedback.

i personally love some and hate others, in people's pages, so it really depends!!!!!!!!

Thanks for asking . You are sooooooo awesome……

Blessings, OM Bastet

Re: What do you think?

I have noticed the blinking stopped! even the big bird on the 365 days to enlighenment ad, that drove me nuts, has quieted down.

I'm amazed and grateful for the fast action that has been taken after so many zaadsters shared how they felt about them.

thank you, team!
now back to the seeds discussion! ;)

sending love,
Gabriele

Re: What do you think?

So wonderful that there has been change here, thanks Siona and all.

I did want to add one final cent on this, it was posted on my own thread on Diving Deeper about this - one member brought up the fact that blinking lights and pictures can cause seizures & that in the UK there is regulation about how many blinks are allowed in ads because kids where having seizures. This was posted by someone who has a seizure disorder.  I  now believe this to be a very important issue, beyond my 'distraction' issue first posted.

Love to all,
Sandra

Re: What do you think?

i am so happy, and grateful, that zaadz has returned to a web experience we can enjoy without being exposed to blinking ads.

my thanks to the zaadz decision makers! our eyes and minds will benefit…

namaste,
c.z.

Re: What do you think?

This is such a long thread, I apologize if this has been mentioned before.

I make a habit of going to all the sponsors, since so many have cool stuff or interesting things to read, and to support zaadz.

But I just went to organic style and I nearly gagged! A small box of cookies for 55 dollars? We're not talking about fancy ingredients for special diets, we're talking flour. Organic, sure, but that doesn't mean a 1000% markup is a reasonable price.

How much do you folks look into these companies? I mean, where is that money going? While a certain not-very-nice part of me is happy to see stupid rich people parted with their money, I don't think this slick company deserves to be here amongst such superior vendors.

This isn't a huge deal, but it does add a certain yuck factor that turns me off.

Re: What do you think?

~

i just wonna say again that i soooooo love ur ads (especially those that move (flash)) n thx to one of them i'll be doing some yoga in the middle of Times Square this w/e

soooo cool ^.^