Re: Freud's Psychosexual Stage Theory

Ah, yes.  This reminds me of another inquiry I have toyed with.  Fetishism. 

I see Freud's idea about this is pretty limited, tho he did make a big deal out of it.  Did you know that he didn't even use it until after Marx did?  It started out being the power-object of “primative religions”, then Marx noticed the usefulness of the term to express his economic ideas.  Metaphor.  Then Freud got ahold of it and really did a number on it!  Fetishism is a sub-section of sublimation.

When you say,

“trust gives a sense to pleasure. a permission, ok now you can let it go… but there's fear , kind of uncertain pleasure and a possibility to get hurt.”

I'm wondering if you are thinking that's how everyone experiences fear or lack of trust.  I don't think I experience it that way, and I'm beginning to see how this can become a big misunderstanding. 

During the early developmental stages, the process of sublimation or displacement dictates that when a strong need is felt, and the object of that need, or an adult controller says, “No!”, then the need gets displaced to a different object.  The need doesn't go away.  It detours.  And the drama of “I want but can't have…” is rehearsed over and over and over in a context that is easyer for the subject to control and to eventually achieve acquisition of the object.  The subject will immerse all of their senses in the alternate object as a way of capturing the attention and holding it away from the original object which causes so much frustration.  In early childhood, this becomes a comfort object such as a pacifyer, blanket or stuffed animal.  In older children, this can develop into a fetish, fixation or mania.  And children do not have a monopoly on sublimation.  It is considered to be one of the better coping mechanisms, so adults do it too. 

Another way the need gets displaced is projection of this drama onto others: believing that “They want but think they can't have…”.  I've seen men make this assumption about me many times.  They believe that I really do want them, but think I can't have them.  So, when I express disinterest, they take that as their cue that they need to let me know that I can, actually have them.  It's okay.  I can let go and take them.  This is a common mistake. 

I think you're mostly right about the battle over pleasure, but I don't think it's really a battle.  I think it's more of an evolving relationship between instinct and reason.  They may seem to be opponents with conflicting needs in the beginning, but really, reason can be trusted to acquire that which instinct wants, only on more civilized terms.  It's not okay to simply take what one wants.  One must learn to negotiate.  And as we grow, we learn that that's okay.  It takes a while. 

I tend to avoid the term “balance”.  When I think about things more comprehensively, I usually end up not needing to use it.  There is a season for everything under heaven. 

Some people insist that humans will always have to deal with the predation aspect of sexuality.  I go back and forth about this.  As someone who is committed to Shadow Work, I must accept the logic of this.  I am also in the midst of integrating my own predatory Persona.  However, I still want her to submit to the leadership of negotiation.  She and I haven't finished our process, and I don't know how it's going to turn out.  Regardless of the outcome, I believe that we all need more awareness and consciousness in our own predatory impulses and an attempt at management and integration with higher forms of acquisition. 

Re: Freud's Psychosexual Stage Theory

the first thing that comes to mind is that you are, (or were three months ago) very head centered during sex. and that you are slowly becoming a whole bodymind, so that you can feel communion from any contact in any way. does that ring true?

the security issues would seem to be that you rush into sexual intimacy before you are really knowing and trusting person. you are getting better at it, but you still rush in before you really want to. shadow behavior, which is not necessarily bad, because you do it, and you get payoff for it.

of course, i'm talking about myself. it's hard to believe that of myself, as i usually have years of solitary between lovers. but that is because i'm a hermit and i just don't meet all that many potential partners. so when the universe opens a door for me i'm right there pushing.  i do push with my whole bodymind. i have to go deep mentally and emotionally, otherwise sex is not as awesome.

my path got to oral before anal. and now the two have integrated. : ) as always i refuse to allow myself and anyone else to fit into a category. i don't mind people using these structures, for self-examination, if they feel so drawn, but i've always found that life is not adequately described in them.  i'd rather talk about and feel for potential compatibilities, synergies, and support in achieving mutual goals both inside and out of the sex.

Re: Freud's Psychosexual Stage Theory

Wow.  Yeah.  I guess I'm really behind on all your posts.  58 days ago, you posted that.  Ugh.  Sorry for my inconsistency.

“the first thing that comes to mind is that you are, (or were three months ago) very head centered during sex. and that you are slowly becoming a whole bodymind, so that you can feel communion from any contact in any way. does that ring true?”

I don't know what those words really mean to you.  “Head centered” or “bodymind”.  It's no use explaining them here, I won't be able to grok it in time to answer confidently.  I would need to see them used over and over within differing contexts but with consistent meaning, and I'm afraid I just haven't. 

With the limited understanding that I have, I don't think that rings quite right.  I'm very emotionally and physically connective, not intellectually, during sex.  However, it has all been largely subconscious until recently.  Now it is more conscious.  So, in a way that could be even more “head-centered”!  All that lingo is very confusing to me.

“the security issues would seem to be that you rush into sexual intimacy before you are really knowing and trusting person. you are getting better at it, but you still rush in before you really want to. shadow behavior, which is not necessarily bad, because you do it, and you get payoff for it.”

I'm in the process of dropping alot of those old catagories about gender and sex and whatnot.  The concept of “rushing in” is a big trap.  It means that if women want to act like reptiles and just fuck anonymously - the way men openly want to - then they are labled something specific.  Men don't ever seem to be accused of rushing in before really knowing and trusting someone.  Like the term “promiscuous man” could be simply redundant, but a “promiscuous woman” actually means something. 

What could be happening here is that men seem to be very physically connective with little emotional connectivity unless there is some sort of trauma or deep, subconscious triggering.  Could it be that they tend to project their own lack of connectivity onto me?  Maybe not.  Just a possibility. 

But not you, tho.  You're very emotionally connective. 

I've been thinking more about these catagories.  They are important to me.  They help me understand.  I'm starting to think that the “anal” stage is connected to our reptile level of consciousness and the others coincide with other levels as well:

Oral:  Fish
Anal:  Reptile
Phalic:  Mammal
Latent:  Primate
Genital:  Human

We have all these layers of consciousness in us, as well as the exterior brain structures that corespond to those layers.  Is the Oral stage our fish memory of exploring the world with our mouths - before we had other apendages?  Does the Anal stage remind us of when we females only had a cloaca instead of separate orifices with their various functions?  Mammals were the first to have clearly visible genetalia and a separate orifice for a womb - is that when we first became conscious of our gender?  Were the primates the first to realize that sex created offspring or that females shouldn't be penetrated against their will or before they were ready?  Isn't the human being the first to be fully conscious of how Genetailia work and create special language about sex?  Because that would explain alot. 

Lots to think about.  Much need for sleep.

~Ww