Whitewave : Into the Shadow...

Re: Freud's Psychosexual Stage Theory

Whitewave said Feb 8, 2007, 12:34 AM:

 

Ah, yes.  This reminds me of another inquiry I have toyed with.  Fetishism. 

I see Freud's idea about this is pretty limited, tho he did make a big deal out of it.  Did you know that he didn't even use it until after Marx did?  It started out being the power-object of “primative religions”, then Marx noticed the usefulness of the term to express his economic ideas.  Metaphor.  Then Freud got ahold of it and really did a number on it!  Fetishism is a sub-section of sublimation.

When you say,

“trust gives a sense to pleasure. a permission, ok now you can let it go… but there's fear , kind of uncertain pleasure and a possibility to get hurt.”

I'm wondering if you are thinking that's how everyone experiences fear or lack of trust.  I don't think I experience it that way, and I'm beginning to see how this can become a big misunderstanding. 

During the early developmental stages, the process of sublimation or displacement dictates that when a strong need is felt, and the object of that need, or an adult controller says, “No!”, then the need gets displaced to a different object.  The need doesn't go away.  It detours.  And the drama of “I want but can't have…” is rehearsed over and over and over in a context that is easyer for the subject to control and to eventually achieve acquisition of the object.  The subject will immerse all of their senses in the alternate object as a way of capturing the attention and holding it away from the original object which causes so much frustration.  In early childhood, this becomes a comfort object such as a pacifyer, blanket or stuffed animal.  In older children, this can develop into a fetish, fixation or mania.  And children do not have a monopoly on sublimation.  It is considered to be one of the better coping mechanisms, so adults do it too. 

Another way the need gets displaced is projection of this drama onto others: believing that “They want but think they can't have…”.  I've seen men make this assumption about me many times.  They believe that I really do want them, but think I can't have them.  So, when I express disinterest, they take that as their cue that they need to let me know that I can, actually have them.  It's okay.  I can let go and take them.  This is a common mistake. 

I think you're mostly right about the battle over pleasure, but I don't think it's really a battle.  I think it's more of an evolving relationship between instinct and reason.  They may seem to be opponents with conflicting needs in the beginning, but really, reason can be trusted to acquire that which instinct wants, only on more civilized terms.  It's not okay to simply take what one wants.  One must learn to negotiate.  And as we grow, we learn that that's okay.  It takes a while. 

I tend to avoid the term “balance”.  When I think about things more comprehensively, I usually end up not needing to use it.  There is a season for everything under heaven. 

Some people insist that humans will always have to deal with the predation aspect of sexuality.  I go back and forth about this.  As someone who is committed to Shadow Work, I must accept the logic of this.  I am also in the midst of integrating my own predatory Persona.  However, I still want her to submit to the leadership of negotiation.  She and I haven't finished our process, and I don't know how it's going to turn out.  Regardless of the outcome, I believe that we all need more awareness and consciousness in our own predatory impulses and an attempt at management and integration with higher forms of acquisition. 

—oOo—

I guess when I speak about “trust” in this aspect, I am refering to my partner's ability to negotiate openly with me and not prey on me.  I don't want any more doubt, I don't want to remain vigilant, I want to lay down my guns and rest.  The oral stage is the earliest, when we are the most helpless.  I want to be able to regress safely.  I want to know that he will not simply harvest what he wants from me and leave the rest.  I do not want to merely be or posess an object for him to consume.  I want him to reverse the sublimation and take the Risk of negotiating with me for the security, affection and acceptance that he deeply wants.  I take so many Risks when relating to men, and I get tired of sticking my neck out all the time. 

Security is an infantile need that loving sex can potentially fulfill, but not at the Personal level.  As we progress to the Transpersonal, I believe security becomes a much deeper and more conscious thing because it is grounded in timelessness and the infinite.  I think Ken Wilber said that emptiness should be a component of certainty.  I have a long way to go, but I want to get there.

~Ww