Knowledge of Time and Space...

ok, the section on Time went well…but i am having some difficulty with the section on Space…not difficultly exactly, just that it is not resonating as well maybe?

it might have something to do with my inability to visualize…

Bruce, any thoughts?

Re: Knowledge of Time and Space...

Hi, Star, I think that's fairly common – resonating with time more than space, or vice versa.  And I think difficulty visualizing could be a reason why the space section of Knowledge of Time and Space doesn't resonate with you – but I'd like to hear more about what questions or difficulties you're having before saying anything specific.  Just in general, however, I'd refer you to the introduction to Love of Knowledge, where Tarthang Tulku talks about approaches to take when we find one dimension of t-s-k to be more difficult to grasp than another.

Re: Knowledge of Time and Space...

yeah, i just went back and read that…

i think the prob is that my mind races…and i have not paid enough attention to allowing space within thoughts, b/c i have a natural inability it seems to visualize, and slow things down…creative juices, etc…mental energy is always usually high, and i just go with it…and have found myself not really wanting to work at slowing it down…b/c it is difficult…

i noticed when i was following along with you and Davidu, i was able to get in touch with layers and slow things down a bit, but it goes against my creative flow…any suggestions?

also, i am stumped, b/c i want to slow it down, and be able to see before appearance appears, b/c i think that has something to do with a layer of condtioning i am not integrating or able to recognize…but it is a circular process; i am unable to do it b/c of conditioning, unable to undo conditioning b/c i am unable to do it…iow…slow things down mentally…

i thought about going back to the first exercises that were presented, but if you think any of the other exercises might help instead, let me know…i don't feel pressured or anything…and i am not frustrated about it, just wondering if it would help to pay a little more attention to that at this time…now that i have identified it as a difficulty…what do you think? *

Re: Knowledge of Time and Space...

i am really understanding what he is getting at, when he speaks of visualized structures…and 'fields of presentation', and it has made me aware at a deeper level, that my conditioned focus is so solid…which would readily explain my inability, or difficulty in visualization…the only practice i was ever good at was Tonglen…LOL…but that is not helping to slow mind down, but then i wonder if that will not have a negative affect on my creativity as well…

i dunno…awaiting directions…lol

Re: Knowledge of Time and Space...

One exercise that comes to mind is an informal TSK one called Expanding and Condensing.  It isn't in the books, but it is sometimes used at retreats and such. 

I'll post the instructions below.  Reading your posts above, I started thinking that it might be fruitful to try to work with your tendencies rather than against them.  So, instead of trying to slow down, you might try speeding up your thinking and processing – see how far you can “push” it.  Similarly, if your patterns strike you as solid or dense, how dense can you make them be?  And thinking about that, I soon realized I was basically thinking of a version of Expanding and Condensing…

So, here are the instructions…

Exercise A - Expanding and Condensing

Settle into your experience, and then begin to expand or condense it.  In doing so, keep in mind experience is made up of many aspects: thoughts, sensations, feelings, identifications, judgments, perceptions, the relationships among these elements, and other features that may be too subtle to name.  You can expand each or any of these, or you can expand or condense, the whole of your experience.  For instance, you could expand the sense of distance that separates you from what ever you see in front of you, or you could condense your sense of self.  You could expand a sensation you feel in your shoulder, or you could condense the feeling of time passing, or the vague feeling of anxiety that the passing of time evokes.  Do the exercise in any rhythm you like, fast or slow, regular or random.

Comments from the book

In doing this exercise, feel free to play with experience.  You can loosen limits, borders, distances, and perspectives.   It is like pulling on a stretchy fabric, which can take any shape at all or turn into something else.  To warm up. It might be helpful to focus on sensations, then move on to thoughts, memories, and fantasies, and then go in whatever direction seems most inviting.  There are really no limits; for example, you can expand or condense the activity of expanding, expand or condense the sense of ownership, expand or condense the feeling of not knowing what you are doing, and so on.  Notice there are at least two different levels to many experiences:  the content of the experience, and the experiencing of the experience.  You can expand or condense at both levels.

…Keep in mind that “condensing” is not the same as “contracting.”  It is not just a matter of making something smaller, but making something more condensed.  Condensing is related to concentration, and to adding more dimensions to experience…

”When It Rains Does Space Get Wet?” Jack Petranker, (Dharma, 2006), pp. 21-2

Re: Knowledge of Time and Space...

hey Bruce…thnx…

i am 'supposing' that you already knew this, but since we went at it in a different way, it was successful at slowing mind down…duh to me, cause i was not focused on 'slowing' mind down, it occurred naturally…you're a wise grasshopper dude!  LOL…

the expanding naturally opened up awareness through mind…releasing the focal point, and allowing for a slower experience…even when i tried the condensing, which at first i did not have a clue to, it had the same affect…

hopefully my understanding of what i am reading will expand…LOL

anyways…joy*

Re: Knowledge of Time and Space...

back to the book, he is tripping me out with all this…not 'not not -thereness'…LOL

what i am understanding from this is that everything that appears is the source of the appearance…

could say it another way…form is the expression of, and the source of itself?

don't really want to use a buddhist term…but hey…form is emptiness, emptiness is form…samsara IS nirvana…

heaven forbid we say that form is the ultimate expression of the absolute…did i just type that?  LOL…God is ONE…haha…Brahman is the World…did i leave anything out?  lets just throw in for good measure…not one, not two…(is God in trouble with that one?)

anyways, this is the way i am understanding this…please correct my misunderstanding, if in fact i have misunderstood…and go ahead and call me a wiseass…lol*

Re: Knowledge of Time and Space...

ahha!

The object of the object is space.   Existence is responsible for its own appearance.  (pg. 240; KTS)

i am so glad that i am finished with that section of the book…lol…

Re: Knowledge of Time and Space...

this book was amazing…all the sections dance into each other with such precision…and although it is a very big book, it is packed full of useful information…

towards the last, TT mentions that those that finally find this vision, resonate with it and wonder why they had not thought this way before…that really hit home with me…

TT weaves a magical dance of Being in Space, through Time, filled with Knowledge that is applicable in the here and now…

I LOVED IT!!!!!!!

always, star…

Re: Knowledge of Time and Space...

It has been awhile since I read KTS straight through, but I remember the first time I read it as sort of a magical time.  There have been a few books like that for me, where the time spent reading it seems to bleed into everything else, informing or illuminating the whole space.  KTS was one of them.

Re: Knowledge of Time and Space...

The entire past six months have been a very magical time for me Bruce, and still…anytime I feel the pressure of linear time, all I have to do is read something from one of the books or from our blogs on our experiences, or just breathe myself out of that mindset…and I am there…lol…in the no-land of the magic of the real…I am so grateful for the vision, and the appreciation just opens TSK even more…much love and joy…*