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Three Turns Buddhism Forum

Centralised hub for Gaia Buddhists and those new to or interested in the Buddha Dharma as it is expressed in various forms.  Three Turns provides rooms for the discussion of theory and practice pertaining to each of the three 'vehicles' of Buddhism as well as numerous departments for discussing the application of the Dharma in daily life. 

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Daily quotes, excerpts and teachings from the three yanas aswell as other sources and spiritual traditions.
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Nicole : wakingdreamer
Nicole posted a reply to the conversation "Friday, December 25th, 2009" ()
sherab  : Myna Qui
sherab posted a reply to the conversation "Friday, December 25th, 2009" ()
sherab  : Myna Qui
sherab posted a reply to the conversation "December 30, 2009 les fleurs mortes" ()
Nicole : wakingdreamer
Nicole posted a reply to the conversation "December 30, 2009 les fleurs mortes" ()
Nicole : wakingdreamer
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sherab  : Myna Qui
sherab posted a reply to the conversation "Friday, December 25th, 2009" ()
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Tharlam Thanks to Sherab - was caught singing the Medicine Buddha mantra at work (again). (5 months ago)
flowerchildathe Looks so awesome around here Dave! I love the forum Icon - and all the room icons...very nice touch. I will be back later to read all the wonderful conversations you have started. And Jon's of course! :) xo (7 months ago)
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  Nicole : wakingdreamer

Tuesday, November 10th, 2009

Nicole said Nov 10, 5:50 PM:

 

In Defense of Desire

There is more to desire than just suffering. There is a yearning in desire that is as spiritual as it is sensual. Even when it degenerates into addiction, there is something salvageable from the original impulse that can only be described as sacred. Something in the person wants to be free, and it seeks its freedom any way it can. […]

As the well-known contemporary Indian teacher Sri Nisargadatta, famous for sitting on a crowded street corner selling inexpensive bidis, or Indian cigarettes, once commented, “The problem is not desire. It’s that your desires are too small.” The left-handed path means opening to desire so that it becomes more than just a craving for whatever the culture has conditioned us to want. Desire is a teacher: when we immerse ourselves in it without guilt, shame, or clinging, it can show us something special about our own minds that allows us to embrace life fully

- Mark Epstein, from “In Defense of Desire,” Tricycle, Spring 2005

  sherab  : Myna Qui

Re: Tuesday, November 10th, 2009

sherab said Nov 11, 3:52 AM:

 
There is a drive for transcendence that is implicit in even the most sensual of desires”
Epstein's point is that desire is a human response to the condition of suffering.

the nature of desire is that it’s always at least a little bit unfulfilled. Resting in the gap - without either rushing to satisfy the desire or foreclosing the possibility of that satisfaction - is a literal attempt to open to desire in its totality, to understand it, and through this insight to come to an understanding of oneself. Denial of the desire is just another way of trying to eradicate the gap, which is what desire wants: Ultimately, desire seeks fulfillment.
Mindful meditation means allowing the awareness of thoughts and desires, and through practice they can become like the sound of waves on the beach; something present and natural, which doesn't really disturb Us as we sit.

In Vajrayana, there are many sadhana practices based on fear, anger and desire. However, through the practice of the entire ritual, these disturbed emotions are made to serve the Dharma, and help release the practitioner from his or her fixations.

What Epstein suggests is fairly simple, but it may be that one should practice with some sort of guidance: a friend or teacher should be enough. Lama's I know have warned about certain deity practices which can lead to mental illness if done improperly. I personally understand why; this happens but it is hard to explain. Basically, you don't want an unstable person acting out every desire. And, especially not if they think that they have some divine mandate for doing so.

Just sitting though, I think I'd like to have a drink of wine, (or sex, or chocolate)
As i breath, i focus on this one craving, returning again to the sensual aspects of taste and smell, the electric tingle of the wine on my tongue…

Ok, that could be a bit much, could lead to episodes of drunkenness. But not more so than trying unsuccessfully to push all cravings away.

I see this as very much like the meditation on pain. Allowing, and accepting the desires can be the first step to taming them
peace
-s-
  Taikunping : crystal soul

Re: Tuesday, November 10th, 2009

Taikunping said Nov 11, 4:26 AM:

 

Maybe it is in the acceptance of each human emotion that we become more whole - we register and acknowledge each part of our humanity and see it as holy - we become aware that certain human traits are more desirable than others and we endeavour to become more balanced and centered into our beingness..

  Nicole : wakingdreamer

Re: Tuesday, November 10th, 2009

Nicole said Nov 11, 6:09 AM:

 

That is beautiful Tai. I believe that to be true, very much so.

Love,
Nicole

  winterfruit : A Vision Shared

Re: Tuesday, November 10th, 2009

winterfruit said Nov 12, 11:22 PM:

 

what a beautiful and profound comment - I can totally resonate to that!

  Nicole : wakingdreamer

Re: Tuesday, November 10th, 2009

Nicole said Nov 11, 6:16 AM:

 

I like that, sherab, allowing and accepting then taming. Excellent.

  winterfruit : A Vision Shared

Re: Tuesday, November 10th, 2009

winterfruit said Nov 12, 11:59 PM:

 

Hi!
a few years back I took the refuge ceremony. Whether or not I knew what I was doing or why I was doing it at the time I cannot quite remember, but since then Buddhist practice(s) has helped me a great deal.
I very much appreciate your comment.

Sometimes the work it takes to deal with the wild nature of mind, truly cannot be understated.

Re: “Desire” - in recent days I have been letting my desire flow free, in my head at least, and if acting it out, trying my best to do so in restrained bits and pieces. For that, writing/journaling helps immensely! I have, however, found it to be nail-biting business. Like sitting on the edge of your seat when you know the monster is going to creep out in that B-rate Horror movie! aa..a…aaaaargh……!!!!!

A dam wall is holding back a force of energy which is just mind boggling. I have witnessed this intensity in Brian Gore's latest poem, “The Kiss” which I came upon last night, which already blew me away!! In fact, I was just thinking this morning that if we could bring that level of energy to meditation practice, I perhaps wouldn't even need sex, I mean, your parenthesized sex
or chocolate! heehee…hee!!!
, as much as I appreciate those words from you too.
Honestly!, cross my fingers and hope to get to do this wonderful, scary life experiment thing all over again some time….!

As for alchohol - how about a glass of mulled wine? Nicole, you too?
The Christmas tree in the market square went up just this week!

many blessings

Beforethecoming Cupofwarmth
  Nicole : wakingdreamer

Re: Tuesday, November 10th, 2009

Nicole said Nov 13, 4:25 AM:

 

dear one, some mulled wine sounds delightful! i don't usually drink but there is something luscious and fulfilling about mulled wine that I cannot resist.

That Christmas tree is awesome and huge! Wow!

The energy you are talking about it precisely what the person in the quote above is talking about, I believe, when he says our desires are too small. Thanks for helping me to see that. I know that being plugged into life means that alcohol and drugs is unnecessary for me most of the time. Now that I am also plugged into love, I am finding the usual addiction to sweets has temporarily abated. Will it return? Perhaps, but for the instant I am enjoying the energy.

Love,

Nicole