Gaia: Co-Creating Reality ~ What Else is Possible? What the Bleep - What the Bleep Do We Know!? - Past, Present, Future.

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://mati.gaia.com — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:57:54 GMT

Also; why should the change as described by time have anything to do with the true movement of the universe? If change is a true aspect of our universe there is no reason why time, in the linear or even circular way we describe it, should reflect this change in any way. Considering that if there is a movement, we would be part of the that same movement and thus move ourselves, it means that we wouldn't be able to perceive the true change. So that movement which time tries to describe could be accelerating, decelerating or even doing something completely unimaginable to us.

Oneness,
Evo

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://Domus-ulixes.gaia.com — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:18:43 GMT

nicely said

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://mati.gaia.com — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:27:35 GMT

Greetings all.

In my humble opinion...

Time. An illusion, concept, application, idea. Whatever you want to call it, time is simply that, an application.

Time is based on the changes we se in the sky - movements of celestial objects, that happen to be rytmical. No two solarsystems are alike, therefore our rithm is unique to our universe. Now this only means that our version of time is not alike any other version of time there may be in our universe, not that past, present and future are not existing facets of our universe.

The concept of time is of course very practical, but it really does not exist in the same sense as perception exists. Everything that exists, exists now, and the now is ever changing. What we percieve is change, and then we apply time - to measure the changes.

We have a feeling of past experiences, only because we have learned the concept of time, and that experiences which are not being percieved now but only exist in our minds, are in the past. Now the mind begins to draw a line between the past and the present, and this line points to that which we call future.

We see the sun rising and setting every day. There is not one day, when that did not happen. What we see is still change, but it has some rithm to it, like our breath or hartbeat. I would argue that rithm is certainly an existing aspect of our universe. At some point this rithm becomes an expectation. We expect to see the sun rise again. Now expectations is something animals have too. When the cat hears the crackling of the bag with catfood, it knows that food will soon appear in the bowl, and it comes running to get some. Then we have to put these expectations somewhere in our idea of time, and that is of course in the future.

So in regard to the future, it is obvious that if there was a past which was followed by the present, then this present will become past and be followed by another present, the future. :-)

Of course time is a very coherent dimension. It is so coherent, that we are fooled into beliveing that it actualy exists. Why this incredible coherence?
The fact that we contian these experiences in our minds as memory, is part of the leaning process, the evolution. Our memory is a mekanism that works to prevent us from commiting the same mistake twice, or at least we try not to. Without it evolution would be impossible. The problem when considering memory is it has an implicit aspect of time, the past. Now this is the true illusion. The memory is not of past experiences, but simply of experiences contained within the being. The future is a reflection of this.

There is only the ever changing, infinite now.

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://museevolution.gaia.com — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:25:59 GMT

It sounds more to me like people are playing with linguistics.

Time is not an illusion, regardless of how many people say this phrase. It is a concept. As a concept it has a definition, and while we may be changing that definition as we learn more about our existence, it still exists. It is not an illusion.

Past and Future cannot (based upon our definitions of these concepts) "exist" or happen or take place in the present. If they did, they could not be defined as or named the 'past' and 'future.' The idea of "seeing the past" by viewing starlight that has taken many lightyears to reach us is again playing with the terminology. You are not viewing the past. Your brain is responding to your eyes perceiving the arrival of light in the present that took a long time to reach earth. If you were truly viewing the past, you would be seeing the light leaving those suns, not arriving on earth. This is not the case. I suggest that while the past and future do not exist in the present, they may be expressed in the present, and it is this expression of them that is used to describe things like dreaming the future, or reading the past.

The concept of time appears so pervasive to us, but that is because so very many of us have been raised in cultures that present the concept of time as a true and undeniable aspect of existence. If someone were raised in an environment of timelessness, they would have no concept of time. That's not a difficult or inaccurate statement to make. But using the concept of time is so darn handy! Imagine trying to explain the concept of a 'birthday' without including the concept of time. How about explaining a recipe for baking cookies, how might you explain that, at a certain point of cooking, they are "done" without employing the concept of time. Memory... sometimes we remember things, some times we dont. How does one seperate those two states without utilizing a concept of time itself? It probably could be done, but honestly, who would want to?

Time accentuates our concept of beauty, in that perishable things are often considered more beautiful because of their short duration. Time gives meaning to our idea of evolution and change, giving one hope that a state perceived as current may not always have to be endured. Time is inherent in enlightenment, as this state describes a change from our typical mindset from one moment to the next.

I believe there should be a more appropriate term created for discussing the kind of past, present and future we intend to convey that does exist in the current moment so that it could be discussed without confusion. Perhaps there is such terminology that I'm simply unaware of.

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://shiningstar.gaia.com — Mon, 28 May 2007 11:32:48 GMT

Most interesting posts. I suggest a site called www.ramtha.com. Ramtha has many books on this subject which are far easier for me to learn from than others that I have found. I particularly like his beginning teachings of creation. For me this made the foundation make sense so I could build on top of that to that which I am aware of now.(WOW) Falling 7 levels of consciousness was a great understanding and now time, distance and space are more known to me.

Re: Matter Energy Space/Time as an object

http://kymmi.gaia.com — Tue, 01 May 2007 13:41:16 GMT

The Past is as important to the future as Future is to the Past but the Present is like no other. It is the ongoing constant. The continuum of change like illusion of clouds. Focused on one particular spot ....(reality in this realm) is worded as the Present!
It is a gift and shouldn't be wasted....
The moment of now cannot be cancelled, it never expires only regenerates through each other. This constant change is now.... Change one ...change all.

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://Trineessence.gaia.com — Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:36:33 GMT

past present future? where are they?
neither here,nor there,nor anywhereat all.
whats the experience of ?
is it mutable or fixed?
to be hoped its mutable,cos weve as a species made plenty of fixes.

recently wrote to a friend about past present and future,his opinion is quotable.."more crap"
so now i have a new career,as a scatologist,and rhubarb grower.

heres to rhubarb,its improved by angelica,and a nice pastry topping.
trine

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://integralhacker.gaia.com — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 04:19:25 GMT

interesting theory.

Matter Energy Space/Time as an object

http://integralhacker.gaia.com — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 04:17:10 GMT

Maybe MEST (matter energy space time) is a single cloud/object. From the outside it looks like a chaotic shifting cloud. Perhaps consciousness is like a beam experiencing certain points in that chaotic/order called MEST. The events we experience are just probabilities and rythmic movements of MEST. Further we (our physical bodies) are only drips in that ocean and consciousness is like beams of light shining throught it. So everything IS already NOW always even in the physical world. Our brain interpets time as linear but the truth is that it is an illusion of the earmarking steady rythms in MEST.

Now how can all time (past present and future) happen at once? A: it can not because "time" is an illusion (a total paradox because Matter and energy make it seem real because of our observance of the movement seperate object), but what if Matter and energy are in infinite dimesions every possible probability. All points of reference (what we would see as past present and future) would exist all at once.

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://rapunzel.gaia.com — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:31:43 GMT

"It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards"
-Lewis Carroll (the Whit Queen to Alice in Through the Looking Glass)

Alex, Waking Life is one of my faves. I love that you included the burrito quote!

And I want to say something about that line in the movie about how we are constantly declining God's invitation -- I think maybe declining is a positive choice, that we have this opportunity to use our waking consciousness to affect what goes with us into the dreamtime, to build the kind of soul-consciousness we get to play with in the bigger universe. But at this point we have a baby consciousness that needs to take baby bites of understanding. When I show my 7 year old friend with autism movies that are just too complex (although she's very, very smart!) she shuts down and nothing gets in. I think I'm the same way, and I know that what I take with me at night to expand and play with during that dreamtime depends on what I've truly reveled in during the day. So maybe this declining is our way of maximizing the opportunities we are taking with us when our consciousness gets big enough -- and if so, what does it mean that the average American sees 20,000 murders on TV before reaching age 18, or that gloom and doom and agony sell - sell books, newspapers, movies, tv shows and magazines. What we put into our consciousness is what we have to work with, which is why this Zaadz community is so spectacular,

And at the same time, there is also gritty beauty and fertile soil in what is not cute-as-a-kitten experience. A quote from Rob Brezsny: "The dream of a steady-state utopia is anathema to Beauty and Truth Laboratory researchers. We're allergic to any paradise that resembles a spotless shopping mall within the walls of a gated community in heaven."

So, to weave this back into the web of this discussion thread, if our consciousness is bigger than our perception of time, how do we build the kind of consciousness that will flourish once it's let out of its cage and accepts the invitation to be so complex and fabulous that we can't even imagine what it is we're getting ourselves into? If we can ultimately trancend time, how do we use time in a handy-dandy, positive way to pack our consciousness bags for the trip?

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://nicholerenee.gaia.com — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 04:45:54 GMT

Past is only in our memory. Memory is made up of words associated with images we see personally. The past is subjectively experienced by us all. Even though everyone might have been there, not everyone will agree on what happens. Future events are happening all the time. The present is perpetually becoming the future, and the past is perpetually becoming the present. So therefor the idea that they are all one in the same is not that far fetched.

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://creator-miracles.gaia.com — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 22:53:00 GMT

Time is the level of disorder measured within a solar system. Yet time is an illusion. Like music: which gives shape to time, so too does our experiences give us the illusion of some kind of chronological progression? All that is really happening, though, in you, and the universe, is change. We are constantly transforming, that's all: every cell in our bodies are replaced every 7 years. We are not the same people today that we were 7 years ago, not to mention the books we might read in that time frame that will change our consciousnesses. Indeed, experiences can be enjoyed again and again depending on the emotional addiction to those experiences, or you can create totally new experiences by overcoming those addictions: thus experiences are not dictated by time either, but by you, in the way that you create your own reality. You are the creator, the author of your past, present and future. Follow yourself.

http://www.creator-miracles.com/

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://Girlwithsmiles.gaia.com — Mon, 02 Oct 2006 08:55:35 GMT

I just wanted to add a few quotes I have found and enjoyed about time:

Energy is Eternal Delight.

                                              William Blake.

There was a young lady from Bright,
Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day
In a relative way,
And returned home the previous night.

                                                                      Arthur Henry Reginald Buller

If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.

                                                                                                                                       William Blake

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://ClarityQuest.gaia.com — Thu, 28 Sep 2006 05:32:49 GMT

Oscar-winning filmmaker enters the Seed Salon to discuss dreams with the Harvard sleep researcher.

Watch Video

Re: Past, Present, Future.

Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:13:18 GMT

alex, first thanks for this point of looking at the issue og time
and second for the Lucid Dreaming Textbookcond as pdf
here is also the wiki print version link to the book
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lucid_Dreaming/Print_version

yosyama

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://ClarityQuest.gaia.com — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:24:19 GMT

I feel now to be the time to say thanks to Jack (1ofmany) for starting this stimulating discussion. Much appreciation also goes to all our fellow Zaadzster friends who have been engaging in this mind expanding discussion!

Domus Ulixes, Gavin, Happi Ness, Yosyama, Tom Vibemeister, RG, Thea, Bilgi, Existence, JAred, King, Drake, Gypsy, Charlotte Hart & Amy! Thank you all so much for contributing to this collective learning experience!

Amy's post about how we experience 6 seconds of waking time as thousands of sensations & events in dreaming time brings to mind the following...

The movie Waking Life, which I finally finished watching yesterday. In one scene, a women was laying in bed having a discussion with a guy about the experience of time when we dream.

This movie is set in the lucid dream of the lead character so if you do not know what lucid dreams are... here's a free Lucid Dreaming Textbook ;-)

There was a stimulating discussion about time between the lead character & a guy who was playing pin-ball in a club... toward the end of the film... it involves some book of x, Déjà Vu, time being an illusion created by somed demon as a distraction from remembering God, now as the only one instance... eternity... where God is posing a question:

"Do you want to be one with eternity, do you wan to be in heaven?"

& we are all saying...

"no... thank you... not just yet..."

& so time is just this constant saying no to God's invitation...

& that this moving from "no" to "yes" is the One Story in everyone's lives...

I'm leaving out some explainations so go watch it for yourself ya ;-)

Here's a collection of quotations on the film from some websites I just googled:

“Dream Is Destiny.”

“The idea is to remain in a constant state of departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes.”

“Your life is yours to create.”

“When we communicate with one another and we feel that we have connected and we think we’re understood, I think we have a feeling of almost spiritual communion…I think it’s what we live for.”

“I feel that the time has come to project my own inadequacies and dissatisfactions into the sociopolitical and scientific schemes. Let my own lack of voice be heard.”

“I believe reincarnation is just a poetic expression of what collective memory really is.”

“Judge not lest ye be judged.”

“I’d rather be a gear in a big deterministic physical machine than just some random swerving.”

“I want freedom! We have got to realize that we’re being conditioned on a mass scale. Start challenging this corporate slave state.”

“The quest is to be liberated from the negative, which is really our own will to nothingness…To say yes to one instant is to say yes to all of existence.”

“While technically I’m closer to the end of my life than I’ve ever been, I actually feel more than ever that I have all the time in the world.”

“Which is the most universal human characteristic, fear or laziness?”

“There’s no story. It’s just people, gestures, moments, bits of rapture, fleeting emotions. In short, the greatest story ever told.”

“A well-armed populace is the best defense against tyranny.”

“They say that dreams are only real as long as they last. Couldn’t you say the same thing about life?”

“The worst mistake that you can make is to think you’re alive when really you’re asleep in life’s waiting room.”

“You can have so much damn fun in your dreams. And, of course, everyone knows FUN RULES.”

“If the world that we are forced to accept is false and nothing is true, then everything is possible.”

“Whatever you do, don’t be bored. This is absolutely the most exciting time we could have possibly hoped to be alive. And things are just starting.”

“I want real human moments. I want to see you. I want you to see me. I don’t want to give that up. I don’t want to be an ant.”

“I’m not in an objective, rational world.”

“On really romantic nights of self, I go salsa dancing with my confusion.”

“The ongoing WOW! Is happening right now.”

“You haven’t met yourself yet.”

“It’s sort of a dream within a dream.”

“Doesn’t it make sense that death too would be wrapped in a dream? That after death, your conscious life would continue in what might be called a dream body?”

“It was a gift. Life was raging all around me and every moment was magical.”

“If you’re going to microwave that burrito, I want you to poke holes in the plastic wrapping because they explode and I’m tired of cleaning up your little burrito doings.”

“If you can wake up, you should because someday you won’t be able to.”

“There’s only one instant, and it’s right now, and it’s eternity.”

Source: http://movies.zertinet.com/2001/wakinglifequotes.htm
More: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0243017/quotes

Free Lucid Dreaming Textbook
Synopsis: This book attempts to teach you the skills that can help you to have lucid dreams — dreams in which you know that you are dreaming. Lucid dreams have been scientifically proven to exist. Being aware that you are dreaming, and still remaining asleep, can give you the ability to control your dreams. Lucid dreaming truly can be a fantastic experience.

First, you will find out a little on what dreaming is from the biological aspect. Then, the book will explain how to improve your dream recall so that you remember more of your dreams. Next, it will explain how to become lucid during dreams, and how to stay lucid. It will also explain how to keep yourself in the dream and prevent it from “fading”. Finally, there will be some suggestions for what you could do within your lucid dreams.

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://Girlwithsmiles.gaia.com — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:09:15 GMT

Thank you very much.

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://Domus-ulixes.gaia.com — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:58:49 GMT

Ow yes : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_transformation (funny graphics)

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://Domus-ulixes.gaia.com — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:56:27 GMT

Funny thing: Time isn't linear. Not since Lorentz, proposed his Lorentz-transformation. Though we cannot simply perceive mor then is possible in quantum time. Then again, I don't think we will ever need that quantum maximum, (it is simply too vast to achieve)

Re: Past, Present, Future.

http://nightlightbrightlight.gaia.com — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:28:51 GMT

When I think of time being non-existant, all I simply have to do to grasp it, is to look at my dreams. Ever noticed we kind of dream in 360 degrees when things all seem to happen at the same time? It even seems in our dreams we see in 360 degrees. Yet our waking minds put them in a mangled chronological order. It has been scientifically proven that our dreams only last around 6 seconds. Wow! You know most of us could agree that we have had dreams that lasted all night. Yet in our world it is only 6 seconds. We experience thousands of sensations, events, amounts of time in our dreams in the blink of an eye....no pun intended. I would challenge any scientist or mystic to say that time is linear after looking at those facts.
Bright Blessings of Love and Light to you all
a