Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I'd like to start a discussion on teachers who can bring you to enlightenment.   I'd welcome any feedback on teachers you like or who you work with.

One is Father Peter Bowes, featured in What is Enlightenment Magazine as one of the top internet gurus, has powerful teachings about what it takes to actually get into relationship with God, or reach “enlightenment.” I lived in a community house with Father Peter for 7 years, and I have never met anyone in my whole life that exhibited such balance, strength, and unwaivering faith. He never got angry or reactive, but always stretched his students to grow and overcome blocks to love and light.

If you so wish, you can look at his youtubes at http://www.youtube.com/user/ruach2351

Or ask him questions at askfatherpeter.com

Blessings to you all,
Sr Andrea

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

This is an excellent question Sis.

The still small voice is the only “living” teacher I have encountered that has lead me into an awareness of a “place” that is beyond concept and description where I have experienced an expansion of conciousness and bliss. It is my goal to remain there and live in that realm.

All of the other teachers that I've been able at relate to have departed this incarnation before I've come across their material.  Jesus Christ, Buddha, Patanjali, Joel S. Goldsmith, Ram Dass, Maharishi Sadashiva Isham (MSI)- reminds me of the song “I think you're just a little bit late”.

I'd be keen to know if there is a teacher that exists that truly lives their enlightened state all the time.  I've asked many teachers and all have truthfully answered that they don't and don't think it's possible in this realm. I am looking for one who does.

“Be ye followers of those who through faith and patience have inherited the promises.”

I look forward to see the results of your question.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

“I'd be keen to know if there is a teacher that exists that truly lives their enlightened state all the time.  I've asked many teachers and all have truthfully answered that they don't and don't think it's possible in this realm. I am looking for one who does.”

I also think it is impossible. As humans we are (if we want to stay alive) bound to our bodies. And our bodies induce an insurmountable instictive reaction to our life.
Though I personally only recently began the attempts to overcome all forms of emotional attachement (emphasize the attachement part). Even if I manage to do so. My body will always attach itself to places of shelter, warmth and plentyfull food. I cannot overcome that, or else I die. So when I attempt that, I will hopefully be very, very old.

And remember, even buddha told it was good to take care of your body, not like the sikhs.
So in essence I think it is possible to stay enlightened on a psychological way.
Yet I wouldn't advice it. For it isn't fun. Once tou get there, it is fun to toy with all the things you overcome, fall back so everyonce in a while. And keep your enlightened wits high. Because you are constantly staying busy with it and expanding your knowledge about possible viewpoints. Perhaps it is my age, that houses such thought, then again, perhaps it changes when I get older. But then I at least have a very large pot of experience to taste from.
So my advice,
Enlightenement isn't the end of the line, just the beginning of a new lifestyle.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I appreciate what you are saying Frederik, and your response is typical of responses I've been getting over the last 25 years to this question.

I'm like a dog that is always chasing cars, I probably wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it, but that doesn't stop me from trying.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Then why are you so convinced that it is possible?
You must have some reason?

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Hi Frederik,

I cannot give a reason other than to ask why not?  I believe all things are possible to him who believes.  I never put a clock on myself when I meditate sometimes it feels like days when it has actually been minutes, other times its felt like minutes and it has been hours (I suspect that is when I've fallen asleep).

In my heart, what I am seeking is be in that higher state of consciousness all the time to experience all that I can be and then to be a light to others.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

The teacher is worthless to the unteachable student and the mind will discard that which does not stimulate.

The self seeks out what is useful based on its own requirments, even before the teacher speaks, so only what resonates will be heard and listened to.

So essentially you teach yourself. The “teacher” only confirms what is already known by YOU. In that sense all teachers are useless and any enlightenment, realization, awakening, etc, etc, you give yourself as there are no intermediaries for the contents of your mind (although we tend to project it onto others in the desire for an external reference point, but that's just “wishful thinking).

Peace Angels,
mike S

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

What a cool discussion!! Thanks everyone for responding.  I have truly and honestly met two spiritual teachers in my lifetime.  And here's the thing - they have shown me my blindspots - emotional attachments - and helped me through struggles I would have never been able to do on my own.  I still work with them and am grateful beyond words.  I feel in my heart it is such a gift to even meet people like this. 

I agree that there are guides that left great teachings include Parmahansa Yogananda.  And there aren't too many teaching how to actually come into enlightenment and deep lasting peace with God inside. When I hit a true spiritual crisis in my lifetime, I asked God, if God existed, please guide me to my purpose.  I felt crushed and purposeless in my life and felt like I needed a lifeline and a reason t live. Then I met a teacher who answered my questions about life in a way that I had never found before. I knew inside myself that this teacher knew.  It shook my world - because I had heard of religion  - but now what was presented to me was an actual spiritual path.  I could actually move closer to God. The experiences I was starting to have of God were real. I just encourage people to continue to open to that blessing. There are souls on this planet that hold and teach of this light in a true way.  We are not left without guides to get us back home.

Here are some free seminars online by Father Peter Bowes, one of the Teachers, this weekend.  He is streaming live - on this website for 3 seminars.
Tune in at http://www.stickam.com/fatherpeter. (times are Central)

The topics of the lectures are:

Waking Up to a True Spiritual Life

• Thursday, November 13 7:30 p.m. Central
  
  
  Devotion
• Friday, November 14 7:30 p.m. Central

Blessings to all,
Sr Andrea

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Amen to that last line, the beginning of a new lifestyle !!! My perspective exactly.

I would like to say I think I spotted a common misunderstanding of what “attachment” is. The opposite of attachment is not apathy, it is non-fear. When one has transcended fear, and the needs and desires that FEAR gives rise to, there are plenty of wants left, including warmth, shelter, food, and all the things the body needs. It is entirely possible to live a life with desires and even passions, all of them with no fear-base. No fear of loss, no fear of not attaining or keeping, no fear of anything. The Ascended Masters when in bodies live this way. All motivations are seen as options, as choices, and there is no good to be achieved or evil to be avoided; buying into ideas of judgments of good and evil gives rise to attachment, we are attached to achieving one and resisting/avoiding/eliminating the other.

It is an old religious myth that once one transcends fear, one is “up and out” and cannot maintain an embodiment. In my knowledge, there are plenty of souls maintaining embodiments without any attachments whatsoever to or from or about, those embodiments or anything in their lives. And those embodiments lead interesting lives, with emotions !!

It's kinda buying into choosing one side of a polarity, this idea that “enlightenment” is an “up and out” FATAL attainment, haha.

All the above is simply my perspective, opinion, based on the data I have. Others with other data, have different opinions. All my opinions are offered in case they might be useful to others, not because I seek agreement as to their Truth. “FWIW” is my motto, haha !!

Blessings, OM Bastet

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

You reading my mail OM?

What you have referred to in your second paragraph is what I'm talking about, Ascended Masters in bodily form, free of all constraints associated with this incarnation.

There is no doubt in my mind that these people exist.  I just haven't knowingly encountered one.

I agree Mike that the only real teacher is the one within, but because I was so blinded by the cares of this world and deaf to that inner voice because of the constant noise of worries and fears and religious preconditioning going on in my mind, I needed help to recognise that what I was perceiving in my heart was Truth.  And just about all this came about through the written word.

This time I'd like to meet a 'live' one that is able to take me to that place and then teach or lead me to that level of awareness.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

>>> There is no doubt in my mind that these people exist. 

Yet doubt you should, my man.

Like old Gotama is said to have said on his deathbed - “Doubt everything, and work out your own liberation with diligence.”.

Heck, i even doubt he ever said that, hahahah. Seems just a little too perfectly edited…

I like to add a slight emphasis - “work out your own liberation with diligence.”. Because I think old Gotama was that kind of guy.

Doubt is your most loyal ally. Faith will leave you, doubt never will.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Doubt is your most loyal ally. Faith will leave you, doubt never will.

Very true. But it is “doubt” that takes us from path to path to path, always expecting to find the 'right' path and always doubting we are ON IT.

It seems that the issue is - can you live entirely through “doubt”?

Or, is “doubt” the path…..

Thanks,
mike S

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Doubt's a tool, not a way to live.

OTOH, faith aint a way to live either, despite the claims of the stories.

If you aren't in the mood to exchange faith in stories with faith in yourself, you're not. Life is like that. It's not a big deal. Things happen as they happen.

Nobody is keeping score.

Doubt isn't 'the path', whatever the path is - but it's a hell of a good light for 'the path' when things get foggy and dark.

Funny thing is, the faith storyliners will tell you the opposite.

The question to ask is - faith in what?

You pays yer money, you takes yer chances.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Doubt's a tool, not a way to live.

Hmmm. …I'm not so sure. In fact, many claim life is a tool.

If you aren't in the mood to exchange faith in stories with faith in yourself, you're not.

But, your 'self' is a “story as well.

Life is like that. It's not a big deal. Things happen as they happen.

Yea, I get that, but the 'self' demands anchor points or stories to give meaninng to “Things happen as they happen.” I doubt there are few that live that story since it is meaningless.

Nobody is keeping score.
 
I get that too, but that's just another platitude that everybody mouths, but nobody believes. Actually, what I find is even those devout spiritualists who advocate NOT “keeping score” are keeping score, but the value system is kept hiden from the ignorant.

Doubt isn't 'the path', whatever the path is - but it's a hell of a good light for 'the path' when things get foggy and dark.

Ok, but we have available either faith or doubt, so what do you propose? I proposed infinite doubt. You negate that, so i await your proposition.

Funny thing is, the faith storyliners will tell you the opposite.
The question to ask is - faith in what?
You pays yer money, you takes yer chances.

Okay, so your against faith, but you negate doubt as well. What are you left with?

Thanks,
mike S

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Every word is negateable. But not everything is reducible.

>>>What are you left with?

Yourself. Which is not the same as 'your 'self'', you wily trickster. (Playing word games is what got people in trouble in the first place.)

And this planet's surface, which appears to be irreducible.

And like I said, “You pays yer money, you takes yer chances.”.

Be as faithful as you can choose. I ain't stoppin' ya.

I figure everybody should give faith a decent whirl. If you haven't, how can you be sure?

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

OTOH, faith aint a way to live either, despite the claims of the stories.

I figure everybody should give faith a decent whirl. If you haven't, how can you be sure?

Bill,

Why don't you be like me and just accept that you don't have clue what the frig you're talkin' about. LOL!

Such is the path to “awakening”!!

Course, it doesn't mean ya need to stop talkin. That's an old buddhist “story.”

mike S

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

>>> Why don't you be like me and just accept that you don't have clue what the frig you're talkin' about. LOL!

Because, after so many years of doing this, I do know what I'm talking about.

Every word I'm choosing, every metaphor, every pointer and signifier, has a purpose.

The storylines are a trap - but an alluring trap - so, one starts by provoking the potential for future questions.

I also know that I can't do all that much to help people in different parts of the storylines.

But, there's no harm is talking relatively plainly. In time, some few persons who read this essentially wasted talk might get one or two things that turn out to be useful.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Because, after so many years of doing this, I do know what I'm talking about. Every word I'm choosing, every metaphor, every pointer and signifier, has a purpose.

Geez, Bill, now it seems as though you're a serious player in the game of 'enlightenment.' I'm sure you know what happens once you get serious.

You start imposing rules to the game.

Oh well…

Happy Trails!
mike S

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

You impose rules?
What kind of rules then?
I mean, I am quite active on the subject, yes, but I don't know if I am serious, I am not that serious about anything really. Well Radioactive materials yes, but no concepts in life really. Why would you?

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

>>>> What kind of rules then?

Well, these aren't necessarily the rules you were discussing, but…

Much like with the physical world, the biological world, or the world of information - the 'world of the mind', which partakes of the physical, biological, AND information, does have it's own 'natural laws'.

They can be wierd suckers tho - strange hybrids.

And we don't have really good clear models of them yet.

The storylines haven't been properly edited and subjected to experiment and peer review.

Too dangerous. Radioactives are inherently logical and safe by comparison.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

well I have been a physicist for three years now. And know lots of 'laws'
I mean more like the self applied social rules.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Well jeez Domus, this place is a hotbed of rules.

Thats how storylines work. Each storyline contains dozens of rule sets.

Thats what all the fuss is about. Storylines 'fight' for computational space in human brains. And most of the fight is about the 'rules'.

—

I was actually kind of joking about the 'laws' - what I was trying to do was imply that there MIGHT be natural laws that control the process of human self-exploration and development.

And that those laws, if we could model and understand them, might help cut thru all the 'rules' from the storylines.

But really it's a premature suggestion on my part. We're not at the stage yet where we can state any 'laws' that can stand up to an experiment.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Do you think we ever will be Bill?

Scientific analysis requires a standard by which to measure to formulate and establish laws.

Science cannot prove life exists, it can't even prove science exists.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I think so yes. Am I right? Only time will tell, and I expect to be long dead before that time comes.

Science isn't about 'proofs' - thats a common misconception. Science is a system of measuring, model and experiment construction, and peer review of the measurements and conclusions.

So it's not a matter of can we ever 'prove' consciousness exists, it's a matter of building a method of measuring it's effects, or whatever it is about it that can be measured.

I have this thing, see, where i think this stuff is actually real, not just a subjective fantasy. If it's real, it can eventually be measured, because real things are real, and have an actual existence and observable effects outside of the imagination of humans.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Fair enough Bill,

Would I be correct in thinking you don't entertain the possibility that this is all happening in a dream, that I am not just a figment of your imagination, part of a fantasy of self discovery?

Is it possible that dying in this dream will actually be waking up in the plane of your real existence?

An eccentric Aussie (and village idiot)

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

>>> Would I be correct in thinking you don't entertain the possibility that this is all happening in a dream

Well jeez, sure I entertain the possibility. I like to offer it coffee, and regale it with stories of probability.

Abyone who has studied this stuff has to spend a certain amount of time contemplating the “simulation scenarios” - various ways in which the experience of existence could be unreal.

There are a lot of possible simulation scenarios too.

But, if you think about it long enough, two issues, three actually, arise, and they have to be contemplated as well.

The first issue is probability, the second is consequence, and the third, much trickier, is equivalence.

proabaility is pretty straightforward - how likely is it that I'm in a simulation?

consequence is tricky - if I AM in a simulation, what then must I do?

equivalence, now, equivalence is a real bitch. The equivalence problem goes like this - “If I'm in a simulation SO GOOD that it's not possible to distinguish it from the real, and I can't ever KNOW if I can actually get out - is that simulation no longer a simulation, but reality itself?

But, to directly answer your question, I assign the idea that we are in a dream that we wake up out of at death a fairly low probability. Tho I am always on the lookout for evidence that it might  be true, and man, I've spent a LOT of time in simulations and dreams.

I have however decided to put aside the ultimate test of consequence, which is killing myself to see if I wake up somewhere else, because it seems awfully cheeky.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

You stole my thunder Bill.

Seems that equivalence will get you every time.

I try to steer clear of what if's.  I agree with the way Aslan deals with it in the Narnia Chronicles. 

What is is.

I suppose it comes down to attempting to grasp infinity with a finite mind.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Well Actually science does spend time in there. There have been many fruitfull theories, and strange experimental results that actually run back to consciousness theories.
It is true, that it is hard to prove that consciousness exists even though it would be solipsistic to deny its existence. The most difficult problem in proving 'things exist' (which is basicly a very difficult question to answer)
In mainstream quantum mechanics. Exists means there is an object or concept that holds to some extends measurables values. We can measure it. In conscious QM Exists also implies that the thing we observe has a usefull purpose to either understand the past or present, predict the future and to be commucable between people.

This last is very important, we assume 'existing' things to be of a nature, where we can describe and show them to other people. Where we can prove by measurement (which measurment device the can check) that it exists.

This becomes rather difficult, for in the end after some calculation, we find it inhuman to deny the consciousness of our friends, but in effect it also makes us wonder if we observe right, and if we indeed think that our non inanimate friend is indeed conscious of what her observes. That we must conclude that there is a strange interaction between mind and matter.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Thank you for addressing that Frederik.

Brave if I may say so and I actually understood most of it.

The principle you refer to, is that a similar idea to the theory of 'dark matter?”, ie, the effect is there even though it can't be detected with our current instrumentaton?

Are you actually employed as a scientist or are you just a very dedicated observer?

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

If you want to read more about it read:
http://www.phys.uu.nl/igg/jos/foundQM/wigner.pdf

It is pretty straightforward and can, with some practice and perhaps wikipedia be read by laymen.

And no it has nothing to do with dark matter. This is much more elementarily then matter. This goes into existence itself. We sometimes say that we go beyond philosophy, for the philosopher limits itself with a classical point of existence. In physics we must seriously pondering existence and when something exists. Read it, I'd advice, for I can't really explain it in any less words.

I am currentlt a bachelor of science. I focused a lot on quantum mechanics, and the foundations of them.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

i find quantum physics fascinating, I expect quantum mechanics is related.

Were you involved at all with the recent experiment on the Swiss/French border, or is that a taboo subject?

I'll go and read the link… thank you Frederik

An eccentric Aussie

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

its not a taboo, why on earth would it. Now I wasn't directly involved, but I have been there. And know how everytihng works.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I gave it my best shot Frederik, and I have to say algebra was a favourite part of mathematics.  But that article isn't dealing with a reality I can relate to.

“Given any object, all the possible knowledge concerning that object can be given as its wave function.  This is a mathematical concept the exact nature of which need not concern us here-it is composed of a (countable) infinity of numbers.”

What?  When I went to school countable and infinite were mutually exclusive.

I've got a headache…. going to bed.

An eccentric Aussie (and village idiot - I've got to be trying to understand this stuff)

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

It isn't really algebra, it is a simplified form of tensors, basicly it just means that there is an allowed state and one that isn't.

Countable infinity is an infinte sequence of numbers like 1,2,3,4,5,… etc
whereas not countable infinity is like 1.1111,1.1112,1.223 etc. (all the komma numbers, that can reach an infinite number between 1 and 2. whereas the maximum number of numbers between 1 and 2 in countable is still one.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

>>>But it is “doubt” that takes us from path to path to path, always expecting to find the 'right' path and always doubting we are ON IT.

Interesting question. But that hasn't been a problem for me. Maybe I'm just wierd. Moving from storyline to storyline (which is what I expect you mean by “path to path”) has always seemed like a natural progression, as my understanding matured.

And, I always figured we make the path.

To get anecdotal, I've had this principle which has really useful to me, tho no guarantee it will help anybody else.

It goes like this - “I'm going to be true to my experience, and I'm not going to lie to myself about my experience”.

That principle has made all the difference.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I needed help to recognise that what I was perceiving in my heart was Truth.  And just about all this came about through the written word.

Yes, we give ouselves many clues that we tend to attribute to an 'external' world outside the mind. But you find the clues nonetheless, and although many choose to consider this all serendipitous coincidence,chance or accident… I do not. The words YOU resonate with, wether writen or spoken, are YOURS. Otherwise, why would you even hear or see them. For instance: “You are God.” Of course that doesn't resonate with you, so you will obviously discard or completely ignore.

This time I'd like to meet a 'live' one that is able to take me to that place and then teach or lead me to that level of awareness.

Sorry I have to do this, since its smacks of platitude, but…look in the mirror and transfer that power that you seek to find in your “live one” to you.

The universal dilemma, that all must eventually accept, is that any transference of power (wether it be to heal or transcend or whatever, either through religion or spirtual paths) to something other than yourself, inevitably minimizes or nullifies YOU.

As Mother Teresa once said, “it's not about them.”

Peace Angel,
mike S

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I agree with Bill on doubt. You must doubt anything, if you don't you start to assume, and on assumptions, much more deaths, hurt, fallacies and wars originate then out of doubt.

As for the Path, say, we assume that there might be a perfect path.
Hence, if the path is perfect, there are a limited amount of paths. Because this perfect path is dependend of the person. We might say, that per person there is only 1 perfect path. That is the path of that person.
Now we are in a situation, where this path, is just very alone in our lives full of choices. And hence, it is so small, and hard to find. People try to find it all their lives. But here comes doubt.
I see doubt as a way to question everything. And by question everything, never really staying on a single path! (what good is that you might ask)
Well, in the process of constant doubt, I way of all the options, and sometimes cross the borders and opposite sides of what 'path' might be mine. In essence, I cross my path, on numeral occasions when I doubt. In such a way, that I constantly cross my path zigzagging along while doubting.
Whet happens is that, sure I cannot stay afoot on a path that is infinitely small to walk on, but I do notice the difference when I cross it. And by constantly crossing it, I stay in the same directions as my 'path' and so, following it anyway.

See it like this:
A forestroad will take you from A to B. But only by looking and walking alongside the path every so often, makes the use of a 'forestwalk' present at all.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I think I'll stick to “working out my own salvation”.

Trying to imagine what it would be like if Bill and Mike S just happen to arrive at the Pearly Gates at the same moment….  They'd have St. Peter in stitches or a straight jacket trying to untangle their reasons for being there.

An eccentric Aussie

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

My eccentric aussie friend,

HA! Thanks for the belly laugh (haven't had one of those in a long while).

I can't speak for Bill, or anyone else, but all I can say is, you hit the nail squarely and directly on the head.

As shakespeare said, all our yap is nothing but a “tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

Absolutely nothing!!

Thanks Bro!
mike S

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

“A sufi died, and on approaching the pearly gates was asked by the guardian angel, “What have you done to deserve entry into heaven?”.

The sufi eyed the resplendent angel, and replied, “How do I know you are really a celestial, and not some fantasy produced by my disordered mind undergoing death?”.

Before the angel could answer, the crowd listening on the other side of the gate shouted, “Let him in, he's clearly one of us!”.

—

Cute story, I always thought, very insightful as teaching stories go.

I don't 'believe' in “heaven” stories, of course, tho also of course one cannot be sure this side of death.

I do 'believe' in death, tho.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

So what if someone that is for real comes into your life - someone with knowing, spiritual development, and the ability to guide you past your current state into something much more? Do you leave the door open for that to open?

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I most certainly do Sis.

I have hardly started scratching the surface of Reality and Truth that is why I am keen to continue this thread.

It would be great if we could have some FRESH input though.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Fine, Read;
Remarks on the Mind-Body question, by Eugene Paul Wigner.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

That's uncharacteristically touchy of you Frederik.

But I have recieved messages from a few saying they won't post in this pod because they get shouted down, or argued against.

I think its important that anyone feel they can contribute without feeling 'threatened'

But I'm not sure how it could be done.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

perhaps it is laziness, to not feel the need to write down a social sentence. ( I naturally don't mean anything with it)

In my opinion, the exchange of text, is just text. Nothing more, nothing less. It isn't special at all. I generally lie no emotion on my tekst, and if I do, it is explicitly there. If there isn't anything in sentence, then I don't mean it either.

People assume too much.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

>>> But I have recieved messages from a few saying they won't post in this pod because they get shouted down, or argued against.

Nuh uh, it's all very relaxed here.

Everybody's always been really mellow.

Detached, even.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I guess it depends on what you mean by enlightenment and who you think gets enlightened.

The desire to find

“a teacher that exists that truly lives their enlightened state all the time”

will only postpone progress on the path since how could anyone possibly know.   Will you only accept a teacher if you can shadow them 24/7 to see if they live up to your idea of enlightenment?  There are always in every age living Masters.  Whether one is ready to accept what they have to teach is another matter.

I can only suggest a teacher who has had a profound impact on my life.  If you put into practice the principles taught in his course your experience of life will change and grow in ways you cannot imagine.

Check out my new group “Living in the Truth of the Present Moment” for more info.

http://pods.gaia.com/present_moment

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I would love to meet someone really pure and patient, but most of all someone well-informed about the nature of reality and the big picture.

I would have loved to meet Ramana Maharshi or Neem Karoli Baba. They seemed to be pretty pure and far out.

Domus Ulixes,

Ramana let rats and cockroaches eat him and things like that. So it is possible to go to that extreme. He had death experiences where his body turned purple and things like that and he returned and said the spirit doesn't need the body. I wonder if we have to go that far? Maybe we have to go that far at least for a while to be purified and then we can act purely in the world from that purified place.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I think, that if we let our body become purple, we are neglecting it. What is important to know, is that our body, within it our eyes mouth, ears, nose and other senses is our gateway to the outside world. The outside world with whom without, our spirit couldn't have formed in the way we are today.
Saying that the spirit doesn't need the body is perhaps in some sense true. But not in the sense where we are conscious about reality. If we chose to abandon our bodies, we chose to stop living, and in essence throw away the gift of life.
Throwing away the gift of life, is in my opinion not something even closely resembling enlightenment.
As a simple example: Buddha was a strong young and healthy man…

Let's not confuse a Buddhistic Buddha with a Hinduistic 9th incarnation of Vishnu. They are both called Buddha, but they do no longer proclaim the same message any more.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I think caring for the body is a darn good idea.  Ascetism is crazy egoistic stuff.  But I will separate Ramana out of this group

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I like Neem Karoli very much, also Ramana

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Here is a post I wrote last night.Enlightenment


A lot of it comes down to what a person considers as Enlightenment, it can mean some different to everyone, and I don't agree with the idea that everybody is talking about the same thing.  

To start with, there is only God, what else does anyone need to know?.  Know that, and get on with your life.  

Another thing with the big E word which has so much baggage.  Are we talking about Nirvana, Nirvikalpa Samadhi, Sahaj Samadhi.  Or the Enlightenment Alan Watts spoke about.  Or the E which the SANTS of SANT Mat and Ruhani Satsang teachers talk about.  Or the Ramana Maharshi idea.  These are definetly not the same thing.

If I had to choose a teacher to transform the mind, I would choose Ramana Maharshi.  But Ramana had stated that he was not the highest level, even though he also said that Know Who You Are and there is nothing else to know.

If I had to choose a technique, I would choose Surat Shabd Yoga, because all other paths lead to where Surat Shabd starts, so I would bypass the others.  The SANTS of Sant Mat and Ruhani Satsang,  have a lineage of teachers, my favourite was Kirpal Singh.  There are new guys in the seat.  Followers of both teachers say they are the only teacher of the Sound Current.  But it's not true because the Eckankar guys do the same thing and the technique is present in other mystical traditions, but I am unaware of who else delivers this technique.

As for any other teachers, some say that Sathya Sai Baba is the Avatar, I'm not going to question that, I have never met a Sai devotee who had become enlightened ( what I call enlightened) but it's not say that others haven't crossed over.

I would be really hesitant to go outside myself for a Teacher, however I did have one and he pointed me back to myself and taught me the Sound Current, which he found by accident.

So really , the world is the teacher, the guru, the one that helps remove the veil, t follow any other would force me to deny what I am, which is God.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Thanks for posting about Father Peter.  I had a bit of a look at the Jesus Ascension video.  Not a bad vid, but to be honest, considering some of the fascinating humans I have met, I'm not confident that either his content or the way he presents could i say that he falls into the same category.  But his work is positive and packaged in a way that seems a little more expansive that a lot of what I have seen.  

Actually I like Father Bede Griffiths, I would have liked to have visit him before he died.

Thanks again for posting, it's the next phase up from the rock mass.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Domus Ulixes,

Well, I think allowing your whole lifestyle to collapse is a powerful step, and that’s what Ramana did. Then I think some people stay there, while others come back and get involved in manifesting their earthly human potential. I’d love to meet someone who did either of those things fully.

Starpeople,

You wrote: “To start with, there is only God, what else does anyone need to know? Know that, and get on with your life.”Prove that, and I’ll get on with my life!Thanks for the tips. I’ll check out those guys you mentioned.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Martin, that's an interesting challenge :-)

I''ve never every really considered that there was a need to prove it, I was responding to a post and I only really know my experience and I question whether anyone else can actually show God to someone else.  I am aware that Arjuna asked Krishna for a vision and he almost pooed his pants (please excuse the language), and Krishna was an Avatar and he had a bit of a Spiritual magic wand as an Avatar.

The Sant Mat and Ruhani Satsang guys use a method called Surat Shabd Yoga, and if someone said “Is there one tool that you would recommend to pierce through the mind?”, I would definitely say Surat Shabd Yoga.  But here's the issue, both groups say their teacher is the Living Master, but it's the same tool as used by Eckankar, and I'm not sure how set in their ways those guys are.  I am also aware of it in the scriptures of different faiths, and my friend showed it to me years ago and after that, I dropped everything else.

To actually prove that there is only God is something I wouldn't honestly not know where to start, but I do know that everywhere I look, I see the presence of something that is alive and in moments more frequently I feel waves of incredible compassion.  And I'm confident that it's the small things that are overlooked, which are right in front of us which is where the God thing can be experienced and it is not off somewhere else in the mystical fantasy world that a lot of people are looking for.

Cheers Tony

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Domus Ulixes,
 
After writing my reply here, I wandered down onto a back-road thinking about wanting to find a guru who either went fully into being and stayed there or who came back and fully manifested potential, and that this great guru knew about the deep meaning and structure of the universe (which is probably beyond our capacity to comprehend anyway), when all of a sudden a pretty blonde in white clothes and a white car beeped her horn repeatedly and waved at me and smiled. It really seemed like the answer to the meaning and structure of life is play for fun! It was so sweet, fresh, and alive!

Of course, then comes the babies, the mortgage, the shitty job, and the suburban wasteland - so much for play for fun. Maybe she was Maya tempting me into the tender trap! 
 
Starpeople,
 
I looked at a Surat Shabd Yoga article. It seemed too complicated to me.
 
I read your blog article about What is Enlightenment? This is the reply I left:

Yeah, first we seek material happiness, then spiritual happiness, then we realise seeking happiness is the problem. In other words, the problem isn't how to get happy but rather how to stop making ourselves unhappy. We don't gain enlightenment; we lose illusion.

So the right question is, “What is illusion?” And you give a good answer to that: “Any movement in any direction is a movement away from ourself.” And happiness is in the very nature of our being.

Of course, we can always answer “What is enlightenment?” with “It's an illusion!”

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Well Martin, you make a perfect example of how simple life can be, and how we mess it up afterwards.

Most problems in life, and then I really do mean most problems. Aren't solved with any spiritual books, or enlightenment for that matter. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with Dogma.
People in general are afraid to review their own beliefs, to ponder what they think and do, is really the best thing to think and do.

For instance, in your first paragraph, you enjoy life.
Then comes the dogma (2nd paragraph)

You assume, that it is 'normal' to have babies. 'normal' as you are somehow convinced that is what is going to happen. The mortgage, as you think you probably need one. 'the shitty job' again, a Dogma. and 'the suburban wasteland'. Again an assumptions.
In fact you ruined the joy of the moment, just by reflecting back on your beliefs. because that is what they are. Thoughts, dogma's of what you assume to be a truthfull future perspective. But fact it:
It isn't. This is just one (very unlikely) course of events. Just ponder, that she might be infertile and rich. It solves all the problems. Or: that you do not need this way of life. You can rent, get a job you like (it just takes time) Get not babies (a free choice) live somewhere else (again a free choice)
Stop thinking like this, as you can see, it ruins the moment. Enjoy what there is to enjoy right now, and live now. There is no need to ponder these things, until you actually are required to. So, rethink your own thoughts, chances are you can label 90 percent, as bullshit. (naturally things like, driving on the right, and paying for your groceries are good things to keep)

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Martin, I like what you have written.

I'm going to sit with it a while and think it over

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Domus Ulixes,

Thanks for the reply and suggestions.

But I have come to trust statistics and science more than magical thinking. I tried magical thinking (affirmations, etc.). It didn't work.

Evolution has programmed us in so many ways to make babies, and sure enough, everyone I know have babies. That's fine if you're a earthy type with a high pain tolerance and therefore able to work for 20 years to bring up junior, but not for me. I have a low pain tolerance and I have zero interest in ordinary life. It's not easy for such a person to find a career, I've been looking all my life, and I'm 45, so there's 25+ years of proof. Also, about 1/10,000 women are “infertile and rich”. I think the maths proves my point.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Well, then you will be pleased to hear that I am a scientists who is very formiliar with formalisms and statistics.
If you want reasoning why I say these things, please mail me with strong questions, I will return with well documented answers.

And true, 1 in 10000 women are part of that, but let's not confuse superficial statistics with reality. after all, almost 10 percent of the women become married before the age of 16… yet, none you know.

Statistics work in a confined place of its boundaries. The trick in life is not to disregard these statistics, but to find out where they feed. There are places where rich infertile women are a one in 5 chance. And good odds are that once you get into this world, it will take only days to find out which through the tool of gossip.

As for your work, Do you know what you do want? because sure it is annoying that you do not want an ordinary life. But I know hundreds of people looking for something they didn't want just because they didn't know what they did.
You cannot look for something if you don't know what you are (exactly) looking for.
If you find what you do want, you will quickly find what you still need to achieve, and then you can achieve it. So, Do you know what you do want?

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Hi Domus Ulixes,

Thanks for the reply. I hope people don’t mind us getting off topic (“Teachers to bring you to enlightenment”). We have moved on to the two most practical WORLDLY things: 1. relationships 2. careers!

You’re a scientist! You must be smart and practical, and there are plenty of opportunities in this world for you. I’m glad. It’s great when your talents and interests are desired. What type of science do you do?

You wrote: “There are places where rich infertile women are a one in 5 chance. And good odds are that once you get into this world, it will take only days to find out which through the tool of gossip.”

You should use your knowledge of statistics to start a dating service! Where are these places? That would be amazing. Oh, they have to be beautiful too. Actually, my ideal is…

- Intelligent & educated
- 20 to 30
- Divorced (so she has already done the marriage fantasy)
- Short-medium to medium height
- Fair skin & dark hair – a very striking combination!
- Loves me in spite of my many imperfections…

Hang on… the statistics are expanding to 1: 10,000 again!

Regarding work, I’m writing a GROUNDBREAKING philosophical book called “WORLDWIDE HAPPINESS” (see http://www.worldwidehappiness.org – [but the book will be much better than that article, which I wrote 5 years ago]). It’s a slow process for me because I’m not a natural writer (just a philosopher). Also, I like screenwriting and songwriting, but I’m not sure of my talent regarding those two things. And I’m a part-time mystic. I have a diploma in writing and I’m doing a Bachelor of Arts, majoring in Philosophy.

But even though the book will be a masterpiece, that doesn’t mean it will sell well. I learnt from experts at the writing school that quality isn’t enough. Writers need extraordinary writing talent, and/or good luck, and/or great charisma, and/or fame, and/or an organisational structure behind them. And it will take another 2 years to finish the book at my current rate.

In the meantime, I’m bumbling along with no money, and looking at a totally unknown future. And that’s been my entire adult life. If my old affirmations worked and someone knocked on my door with $100,000, then I could hire a professional writer/philosopher/researcher to write the book with me in six months and hire a PR company to polish my image and presentation and to help me sell the thing. But then finding a suitable assistant is maybe a 1:10,000 chance too! Maybe I should do an affirmation about that too!

But affirmations don’t work. Only hard work plus the x-factor works in this world. I can do the hard work over the next 2 years, but the x-factor is missing it seems. At least I will have written a great book. ;-)

Regards,
Martin Gifford.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Well Martin, things like this isn't that much of topic. Our relatives play an important and distinct role in our path to enlightenment.

I am a quantum physicist currently working on a (quantum)theory for opto-magnetical  effects.

Let me say this, these are my demands:

- Intelligent & preferably PhD material
- 20 to 30
- Realistic and a sense of style
- Gorgeous body
- Bright blue eyes, dark/black hair by nature.
- Loves me in spite of my many imperfections.
- Has thought about the world,
- etc, etc,

(I have already found her)

I am a very demanding person, yet it is still very simple to find them! What (I think) makes you increase the statistics, is that you simply do not know how to deal with such kind of women, and repel them before they even talk to you. I know I don't know you, but I do know that with most men, this is in fact the case. In any way, read: 'Double your dating' by David DeAngelo

The idea is that everyone is still human, and all humans are the same. It is as simple as that. And most women will deny that they are easy to get. But empirically, this is the case. 99 percent of women are in fact easy to get. You just got to know how. And finding that out takes balls, just like actually trying. But women (all women) like that. except those, that nobody really should be dating for their own sanity. (women will hate me for this paragraph)

You don't need the x-factor. Most of the X-factor can be taught. But 99 percent of the humans don't know this. We are humans, and are so vulnerable for suggestion and that sort of things. But more important, once you know, that all of the troubles you described can be easily solved by yourself. But the problem is finding a way to learn how to find methods to solve those problems.
This requires you to think outside the box.
Something you do not do (from your own thought description of the female in the car).
If you learn that, you will triumph especially as a philosopher. But it isn't something they teach you at philosophy majors.

Good luck!

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Martin, here are just a few thoughts from the Peanut Gallery who is 1 1/2 times your age:

I wonder why you are letting your DNA run the show by having you look for, in a woman, the biomarkers of fertility when you have no interest in having children.

And I wonder why (or whether) you are restricting the Universe to bringing you money via a rich woman. That's a pretty severe restriction on how you can receive a lot of money. 

And, as a Manifesting teacher, I also wonder why you seem to restrict the Universe from bringing you what you actually want via ways other than your having cash in hand to pay for what you actually want.

I also wonder whether you mean affirmations don't work for anyone, or just for you. There are people running around the world who have experienced affirmations working for them — though I personally regard affirmations as very weak in the techniques of Manifesting.

Blessings, OM Bastet 

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

True, Domus U., relationships are considered excellent teachers toward enlightenment!!!!

Martin, unfortunately (haha) reading yesterday's posts brought up more thoughts and questions I'd like to pose for you:

Is it on your list that you love her despite HER many imperfections? Is it on your list that she be physically and mentally healthy, and of good character, at least basically an honest and benevolent person who is into communicating and not prone to silent sulks or temper orviolence or negativity or manic/depression, who won't nag you or try to destroy your self-confidence, or who gossips about you to others? Is her age and body form and skin color and her devotion to you more important than these things????? From your list, one would think so.

Do you want her to love you despite your many imperfections because she is an accepting compassionate person, or because she is so shallow she doesn't even register who you are and her “love” is pretty superficial, say because of your age and body build and your cute smile? Do you want her to know who you are and deeply appreciate your essence, and do you want her to be able to accept that from you? 

Do you want her to be able to grow and mature and change, or don't you care whether she's not significantly wiser and more mature at 45 than she is at 25? Is her educational level more important than this?

And finally, I wonder why you assume that if she is divorced, she is over the marriage fantasy. Couldn't being divorced mean she was someone that a reasonable person couldn't live with, and she hasn't changed a bit since then? Seems a rather large assumption. But then, I know you would have checked it out first before making any decisions.

Just a few thoughts from a woman who's been through a lot of relationships in a bunch of decades, and whose specs list is considerably longer than yours, haha.

Best wishes,
OM Bastet

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Hi Domus Ulixes, 
So you’re a quantum physicist. That’s impressive. I looked at your photo and you look like an Adonis too. So Adonis the quantum physicist is going to do well with women! 

But I take your point that you found it very simple. I do have blocks – mainly the fear of babies and being unable to provide financially. I agree that it is easy to get women, but I haven’t found it easy to get a rich one who doesn’t want kids and who is willing to put up with someone who has been a failure all his life.  

I’ll check out 'Double your dating' by David DeAngelo. My tip to others is to be bold. I just give a direct compliment (when I feel like saying it), then wait till they come back. In Australia women can be a bit surprised since the men here don’t usually compliment women, so the woman will usually run, but then a week or two later they think, “Hm, no one else has complimented me or asked me out in the last week or two” and so they come back and present themselves for an invitation. 

The problem is getting the right woman. And let’s face it, a woman who doesn’t want kids is unusual, and a woman who can’t have kids is likely to be unhappy about that. I just find the whole thing clunky. 

I’ve tried thinking “outside the box”. I have learnt that it doesn’t work. Stuart Wilde came to Byron Bay a few years ago, and someone asked him about how to get money. He said, “You make a product or service, then sell it.” Now that is economics 101, yet he wrote all those silly books about affirmations, etc. They were his products! So my response to the female in the car was after having tried thinking out of the box for years. 

Hi 1Vector3/OM Bastet, 

Biomarkers of fertility are the things that are attractive on the physical side in the first place! Catch-22! Being a Libra, I am focussed on physical beauty.  

Yes, definitely I want a good person and to have the other positive qualities you mention. 

I have been open to how the universe can bring me what I want. The universe hasn’t delivered. After experimenting and observing others, I think it requires hard work and/or the x-factor. 

I reckon the statistics for affirmations etc. consistently working are probably 1:10,000 in reality, but the few that work sell the idea. And I don’t think it is any kind of magic about the universe fulfilling your wishes like a genie. I think it is just focussing on what you want and going for it. People I have seen succeeding with affirmations were actually quite aggressive people who grabbed “opportunities” that were ethically questionable.  

Yes, affirmations might not be the best technique. I heard that doing things like making a photo of yourself in a Porsche works better.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

well Martin, you would be surprised, I can never tell people my study in advance, because they assume I am a nerd… besides that, I need to spend a lot of time in my study, far more then for instance a lawschool education. And the addonis things isn't sure either, I was born fat, and always was fat, only be intensive exercise and healthy diet, do I even look like this. It is all just hard work.

don't just compliment women, you don't want them to think you are a suck-up. And don't give them compliments when they ask for it. As the matter of fact, insulting them in a laughing, humoristic but serious way, is a sure way to get them wanting you. (just don't let it be something obvious, like don't insult a woman for something she clearly has. And NEVER insult them by saying they are fat, try the nose)

yeah… women and children…. They are in fact linked. but lets face it, the children conversation is something that won't just happen. And if they are unhappy about not being able to have them, so what?
it doesn't change who they are.

About the box, you are thinking it wrong.
Thinking outside the box isn't something that 'doesn't work' it isn't a technique, or method. It is an essential philosophy without which nothing gets done at all. All large difference are done by thinking outside the box. If everyone in this world would use known system. Nothing in this world would change! It is just a matter of intelligence and persevearance to how succesfull thinking outside the box is. And about your example, it just matters what your goal is. Do you think that people that create tell-sell products make any significant (disregarding the negative) changes in this world? No, but they do get rich, and make people less intelligent.
It depens on how succesfull your goal is. In the tell-sell case it is thinking outside the box (of ethics)

Cheers!

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Hi Domus Ulixes,

Study and hard work! Count me out.

I just say and do what I feel with women (when I’m with them). My compliments are just what I feel, not to get them or anything.

If the children conversation doesn’t happen, then I would be left with the most likely expectation i.e. that they can and want to have children.

I think outside the box e.g. my book Worldwide Happiness, songwriting, and screenwriting. It doesn’t help me avoid babies and get money. Those that think outside the box and improve things are the lucky ones. Most people who think outside the box simply struggle. We only hear of the rare successes.

Re: “Teachers to bring you to enlightenment”: David Deida is a good relationships/sex guru: www.deida.info.

Also, Alx Uttermann (http://jdr.gaia.com/) says she “met a living Indian saint and got swept off to my destiny, which turns out to be healing on a global level, in relationship with such yogic heavy-weights as Shirdi Sai Baba and Jesus. (www.kaleshwar.org). after the honeymoon of a year passed, I spent five straight years in India (from 2000 - 2005) studying, meditating, burning karma and finding out what it's like to live in the spiritual community of an ashram where a living saint who does miracles – lots of miracles, the more outrageous the better – is presiding.”

That sounds pretty far out to me. Maybe he’s The One? 

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

The One doesn't exist

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

I think statistically, in a population of 7 billion people there will be one who is much more charismatic and intelligent than the rest.

That person could stimulate a dramatic improvement in the world.

Re: Teachers to bring you to enlightenment

Yeah, but honestly, I doubt that that is only one.
I think more in the range of thousands.