Gaia: What Is Enlightenment? - What Is Enlightenment? (and other questions) - What To Do With The Future Past

Re: What To Do With The Future Past

http://telesterion.gaia.com — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:01:37 GMT

Krista >>> But…if I did live in that world, and I found the bunker, I'd share the information, because it is not for me to determine which knowledge is not meant to be known.

Clearly that is the only possible answer to this thought experiment, that, and variations on that theme.

Curiously, one hears rumors and suggestions all the time about governments and groups of people withholding information from the population "for their own good".

The rumors of the Mexican government suppressing stories of of the beginning of the new swine flu outbreak springs to mind, as does the US governments frequent insistence that we should not be allowed to see the torture photos.

Does that type of dismissive paternalism have a place in a "final society"?

I pray not.

Re: What To Do With The Future Past

http://kristadellefemine.gaia.com — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:07:49 GMT

Whenever I try to imagine a world without hatred, holocaust, slavery, incest, and terrorism, I end up imagining society almost as robotic. I don't know if I would want to live in that world. There would be no cause to believe in, because there would be no cause. Have you ever been watching the news, and you hear about some heart breaking story, and then you send out a little good wish for the victims, followed by a little thankfulness for the health and happiness you had that day? I think it might be those little prayers and good wishes we send out that make the difference.
But...if I did live in that world, and I found the bunker, I'd share the information, because it is not for me to determine which knowledge is not meant to be known.

Re: What To Do With The Future Past

http://Domus-ulixes.gaia.com — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:00:16 GMT

Yes, but the argument goes two ways. Do you think war would be disliked more if people knew what peace was like?
Good and evil, war and peace, black and white. All just 2 extreme values, that can be almost freely interchanged in several reasonings.

I think it would be grey anyway. Think of it this way, Tibet was once a warlock nation... not much left of that now is there?

It does sound a bit nice. Just don't think it will ever change. Humans are too different from eachother, and too jealous to accept that. Change either one of the two and the problem is solved. Guess the first was tried by war on several occasion, because two... well.. Think of it.

What a person would think is such a scenario: 'Idiots' if he knows inequality and understands it. and 'interesting' if he doesn't...

Re: What To Do With The Future Past

http://telesterion.gaia.com — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:37:50 GMT

Abso-frakkin-lutely!

But, we are surrounded by wars large and small, immersed in violence, soaked in blood and images of blood. It don't seem to make us appreciate peace all that much. We seem ever-ready to rush into the next war, to start some new "War on this or that".

I get the gist of your argument, I'm just not sure I'm seeing how it could be applied to a "millenium of peace, no knowledge of war, then a crypt is doscovered with war evidence" scenario. Perhaps I'm disagreeing with the "grey" metaphor - disagreeing that such a scenario would be grey by definition.

Keep in mind we are talking about a ficticious scenario that is fantastically unlikely to ever actually occur - and if anything like it were to occur, arguably we, with our current minds and world-views, can't accurately imagine how a mind in such an extraordinary possible future might process it's world.

What would have to occur for such a possible future to happen is mind-boggling to consider. Megadeath, artificial food, the cessation of reproduction, perfect technological balance, massive restructuring of the brain and body.

Sounds kinda nice. A bit like an uploaded scenario. mmmmmmmmmmm, sweet.

Re: What To Do With The Future Past

http://Domus-ulixes.gaia.com — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:23:33 GMT

Do you think you would appreciate peace more, if you know what war would mean?

Re: What To Do With The Future Past

http://telesterion.gaia.com — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 03:15:39 GMT

I'm not sure you can totally defend that Domus.

I can model it out so that after a millenium of no war, words ideas and concepts of war might be largely forgotten or vastly misconceptualized - but that doesn't mean those folks don't live in "peace", as opposed to living in some gray state that is undefinable.

Altho, by definition, these imaginary people (simulated people) were "ignorant". not knowing of the past, nor of the cave of artifacts and information from the past.

Of course, we can imagine most anything we want - we are writing the story, we are establishing the fictional outlines.

Re: What To Do With The Future Past

http://Domus-ulixes.gaia.com — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:45:00 GMT

If all is positive, all turns grey, for the contrast between black and white fails.

In other words,
Peace and knowledge cannot live without war and ignorance beside it.

Re: What To Do With The Future Past

http://telesterion.gaia.com — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:56:36 GMT

Totally.

There's that aspergers again.

What To Do With The Future Past

http://oosta.gaia.com — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 03:11:41 GMT

In other threads we have been talking about the need for religion (organized or un) in spiritual development. Along that thought, somewhere (please don't ask where; I mean, I never leave home without my drivers liscense because of all the useful memories it has on it: name, address, picture,etc.) I remember reading about a cycle of Buddhism (I think for the purpose of this exercise, we can replace Buddhism with almost any other ism and the point would still be valid): after total realization is achieved through Buddhism, there would be a period of a thousand years or more of peace to the point that Buddhism is completely buried and forgotten; to only be rediscovered when things started to spiritually go south again.

With this in mind, what if we were in this period of peace and all knowledge of harming others had been lost to even the oldest of memories? What if one of us were walking along through the meadow and happened to stumble into a hole which turned out to be the entrance to a bunker within which was still deciferable and incontrovertible evidence of a past filled with hatred, war, holocaust, slavery, incest and terrorism?

Would you tell anyone?

Blessings and peace