Re: Liberation without a face

Wake up and smell the coffee ! - they all say - or as I would prefer it said  - wake up and smell the lavender - I permanently have a downstairs toilet dispenser filled with Norfolk Lavender soap - which everybody uses and talks about their lavender moments.

I have long held the view that throughout the history of humankind the problems of the moment - resulting from a combination and interaction of natural forces with those of human nature itself - have always had their solutions.

Prior to recorded history I believe that their was a balance in all these things, particularly between men and women and an awe of life and the act of birth itself and absolute respect for women's involvement in the process.  As natural forces evolved however the balance took on a male bias as a result of events such as the volcanic & tsunami explosions which took place in Sumatra and the Aegean sea - the latter being the beginning of the demise over 100 years or so of the female oriented Minoan culture.

Spiritual / religious belief has played a major role in the upsetting of the balance and to paraphrase Ken Wilber - in general terms only three types of spiritual / religious belief systems have obtained - the first based on earthly things, the second on heavenly things and the third based on a balanced combination of earthly and heavenly things - his reference to the precious union of heaven and earth only to be found in human form and the essence of wetness comes to mind - the problem of ethnocentric interaction has arisen because, he says, the beliefs of group 1 have always been regarded as sinful by group 2 and vice versa.

I would say that as a result of these attitudes a schism has long existed which has been driven by men predominately and which has resulted in the evil of war, strife and poverty.

Elizabeth Debold's articles in WIE over the years have delightfully high-lighted the dilemma of women in this balancing act and she has detailed elsewhere a consensus view of the potential of women in the evolution of consciousness, She has said more recently -

” At this point where the most privileged of us live on the edge of gender equality, perhaps the next step is to reach beyond the notions of masculine and feminine that have deeply shaped our selves and society. The evolution of consciousness so desperately needed to transform this planet could well depend on our discovering a new ground for human relationship that destroys all of the division bound up in our ideas of being women or men. The glimmer of that ground may have been glimpsed by one of the greatest spiritual visionaries in history, as my colleague Jessica Roemischer and I discovered recently at the Omega Institute's Women & Power weekend. Jane Fonda spoke there about her conversion to Christianity and her recent discovery of the surprising message in the Gnostic gospels. Quoting Christ's words from the Gospel of Thomas, she said: “When the male will not be male nor the female be female, then we will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”

Where are the women who want to discover this?

The challenge of female emancipation of course has always been that women should ideally be, and act as women  not  women being, and acting as men

In this and other contexts, namely

*  racial, social and political emancipation
*  Kenyon Farrow's open letter in the book Letters from Young Activists
*  potential evolution of the United Nations into a  pluralistic world federation as Ken Wiber    has described elsewhere  

What do you think would be the effects on conscious evolution - flowing from the White House - were Hillary Clinton to become President and Condoleezza Rice her Secretary of State ?

Re: Liberation without a face

The answer is not by reinforcing gender, i.e., a woman president…thought this is not a bad idea…it is about creating a society where gender is not the determining factor in how we interact with each other.  This also doesn't mean gender-neutral either.  As long as we're humans, we'll have separate sexes.  However, there have been many psycho-social studies which lead scientists to suspect that gender is not bipolar exclusively…not just Male or Female.  Most people have heard of transgendered individuals; this is but one more obvious variation on this theme.

There's a fairly good discussion about the Third Sex on Wikipedia at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_sex

By “third sex”, we don't mean that there's literally three and only three…rather, it's a metaphor for other than just the two we're used to thinking about and dealing with.  Transgendered, transsexual, bisexual, omnisexual, asexual, and many more that may not even be nameable by current linguistics, would all be considered to be part of this alternative gender.  There's even an interesting graphical representation on Wikipedia that combines the men's, women's, and something that looks like an arrow which is crossed out…all merged…to stand for transgendered.  The GLBT Historical Society (http://www.glbthistory.org/) says that it is dedicated in preserving historical material for the “sexual minorities”.  However, perhaps this is not as uncommon…minority…as we've been lead to believe.  Perhaps the NORM is transgendered and the 'traditional' TWO sexes represent merely the polar opposites on a scale with unlimited intermediary points.  Kinsey suggested as much, only more in line with sexual orientation rather than the larger topic of gender identification.

There's an extensive volume of research and history in the book, “Third Sex, Third Gender: Beyond Sexual Dimorphism in Culture and History” edited by Gilbert Herdt (http://www.amazon.com/Third-Sex-Gender-Dimorphism-History/dp/0942299825).  And, Judith Butler's book, “Bodies That Matter: On the Discursive Limits of Sex” (http://www.amazon.com/Bodies-That-Matter-Discursive-Limits/dp/0415903661 ), predates Herdt's and focuses more on how society treats individuals based solely on their outward presentation, i.e., our view of the cross-dresser as homosexual.  A more recent (2000) book by a Brown University biologist, Anne Fausto-Sterling, “Sexing the Body: Gender Politics and the Construction of Sexuality”(http://www.amazon.com/Sexing-Body-Politics-Construction-Sexuality/dp/0465077145), takes the more scientific investigation of whether there are biological factors which may account for these variations.

All of these beg the greater question, regardless of whether it's nature or nurture, how will society deal with these difference in the long run?  Can anyone be truly liberated unless all are?  Women of today are not a minority…except when it comes to major corporations and government…again, the answer is not in creating some artificial 'balance', but rather gaining a 'voice' where it will count.

Re: Liberation without a face

Demystic said…
it is about creating a society where gender is not the determining factor in how we interact with each other.  This also doesn't mean gender-neutral either.  As long as we're humans, we'll have separate sexes…

This is where it gets really exciting! While I appreciate what you wrote about going beyond the binary (Male OR Female) I think what is more widely applicable in terms of liberation is how we are free from identification with whatever our sex and gender. So whether I am born woman or hermaphrodite, how can I be free from identification with that? The way I interpret that is…what are my ideas about who I am that are bound up in my gender? What ideas do I have from society etc that I try to live up to (consciously or unconsciously) that bind me, just because they are fixed ideas… And then, there is being nobody, being identified with the Ground of life itself, and the strength and independence and wholeness and utter lack of need which is inherent in that Ground itself is suddenly ME! I am that. My capacity to transcend my conditioning then becomes unlimited, and I am FREE. I am free to see everything, I am free to act independently from whatever arises in my experience…

So that's what I get when you talk about creating a society where “gender is not the determining factor in how we interact with each other” – because my own conditioning as a woman is largely a determining factor for how i interact and how we create our relationships etc…

Re: Liberation without a face

But surely this perspective of yin & yang re-inforces the long felt notion that the whole is divided into two with a little of each in the other - are you not just talking about how the balance is allocated ?

Re: Liberation without a face

I do not think that our culture should be gender-blind.  Where there are differences, such differences should be acknowledged, but where there are not we should not invent them.  For centuries, people thought (without a shred of evidence) that women had not the brains to be a teacher, or a lawyer, or doctor, etc.  Contrariwise, it is traditionally assumed that men lack the compassion to raise a child or keep a house clean without female help.  In the 20th century, males were seen as heartless sex-hounds (particularly the young ones) by the media, and only within the past two months have studies been conducted proving otherwise.  I can only assume that society would benefit were such illusions torn down.

However, there are scientifically verified differences between genders.  Our bodies and behavior vary (though slightly) and it would be foolish to ignore what is really there.  Unfortunately, people seem to mistake such pragmaticism as sexism.  One example was the recent controversial study regarding academic performance.  The president of Harvard University conducted a study trying to explain variations in academic performance.  A potential cause, he said, was a genetic tendency in males to be better at mathematics and spatial geometry.  Unfortunately, the scientific community at large practically blacklisted him, acting as though his poll itself was somehow discriminatory simply because they didn't like the outcome.  Fortunately, other behavioral differences are recognized and socially accepted, such as the fact that men are more likely to get into automobile accidents, women are more likely to get breast and skin cancer, men are more likely to get colon cancer and heart disease, etc.

Re: Liberation without a face

Some of the older books (depending on your spiritual tradition) say that one gender will find it easier to find enlightenment than the other.  If my memory serves me right, early Buddhism said that men would have and easier time of it (though Buddhism includes many female Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, so the difference must be slight) and the Druidic traditions of Wales said that Females would be better at spiritual advancement.

Re: Liberation without a face

there is this basic solution to feminine vs masculine

just like when in Spain for instance, one has Muslim, Jewish and Christian ancestors, and each resonates in each person as him / herself. and similarly when one is born to a mix black and white parents he she is in fact both of them - in the exact manner when one knows in his body, in his her heart and mind that he she is both feminine and masculine - when one knows in person the both sides in him herself, then we are not again shouting our love or whatever from each side of the river but we are already sharing the eventual indivisible continent ~

Re: Liberation without a face

I would like to go back to the title of this forum, Liberation without a Face and write more about it's meaning. I have been a student of Andrew Cohen for 18 years and work as the managing director of the EnlightenNext center in Cambridge, MA.  Andrew is my spiritual teacher and he has been talking with us, his students, about Liberation without a Face for a long time. We are involved with him and with each other in the ongoing investigation of the question: What do we find when we apply the light of awakened consciousness to the question of gender? What is it like to be a woman or a man, but not be identified in any way with that, either holding on to it or pushing it away? In the last few months, this investigation has gone to a new level. We have been finding that it is the intention and interest to create a culture that is based on enlightened values, that is giving us the courage to let go of thousands of years of fixed ideas about what it means to be a woman (which is the work that I and my sisters are involved with) or a man, (which I cannot speak to personally, but hear about from my men friends). So that higher goal informs our willingness to let go and discover in a new and fresh way, what is beyond the limitation that gender has always been. What we are discovering, in conjunction with Andrew, is that autonomy is the most important thing for women to find. Autonomy is when we act on our intention to be free, unrelated to how we appear to others. This, combined with the intention for real change, moves consciousness in ways that are extraordinary and profound. We are finding that when groups of women or men, with a commitment and interest in what is real and true, come together to push consciousness forward, something emerges that is of another order. And what I find most thrilling is that this feels like the basis for a real change in the relationships between women, and between women and men, that are the foundation for this new culture and society, where enlightened values are actually being lived and expressed between ordinary human beings. This is very new terrain…….

Re: Liberation without a face

In response to my earlier posting to this zPod thread Whitewave wrote elsewhere -

Hilary and Condie…      ['gasp']     …ew.

I have an email waiting for me in my inbox from Elizabeth Debold about just this thing.  I disagree with the genderless view.  You are prolly familiar with what KW calls “The Atman Project”?  That's what that is.  I believe.  Trying to force the manifest duality to become the same as the state of heavenly non-duality  …    No.  Gender is not a pox on our house!  It is a GIGANTIC gift in a HUGE Chinese puzzle box.  If we could just figure out how to get the damned thing open!!  Cheezy, but true, it's more like “The Fifth Element”.  Always the last thing to be considered.  Never explicitly described or commanded, because that would necessarily negate it's power.  It MUST be intuited!

~Ww

Blessings to you. 

I have equally written elsewhere my views on Opening the Chinese Puzzle Box and recently linked my profile to kelleybell's supportive views of my earlier posting

David Deida's the Man

David Deida is the best I've seen about the difference between men and women. I'm not much into his forceful techniques, but he is very insightful.

http://www.deida.info