From WMtE2 to WMtE3

Here follows the first conversation by Judy, Helen and Ria (Nov. 8, 2007), 10 days after WMtE2; in preparation of the next version!

Silence

Conversation:
Ria: It's good to be in the collective silence. It's good to have this conversation now. Things are still very fresh. I have been working on the harvest of the gathering. It's more or less done. I'm looking forward to the next step in this unfolding process.

Judy: I was present with the silence… amazing things seem to emerge - also in other places. Reading Ria’s blog, the last part of our time together: things came from everyone! I was silent; and I didn't had to speak. When that space is created, starting from silence, it is incredible. In my OD group: two times silence, just naturally (using the bells)… magnifying… the collective space held, with silence as a practice, awakens it. I try to understand this… the role it might play in being together collectively and what it can birth. Honored to be with you, and looking at what might come out.

Helen: Nina and I were thinking of you and holding you while you were there at WMtE. I know ‘that’ what happened and happens, it is not easy to put into words. I know the limpid clarity (like the clarity of a clear pool), the simplicity, the rightness, and the complete naturalness of us; as if we have always known how to do it. Taken for granted. The silence, my silence is so big these days. In the AoH in Holland I held the question: What is the biggest system I can host? It is limitless, we are limitless holding it. We are innumerable holding it. Already and always. I notice these miracles happening in unexpected places. They come from holding in that vast silence. Acting from that knowing as if whoever in the room and conversation is in that space. And really weird things happen.
Perhaps miracles are happening all around us, and we are only just awakening to it now?

Judy: I’m resonating with 'miracles happening', probably I am more open to it. The big AHA from the constellation for me was: the World wanted Collective Knowing to be there! I was amazed that it came through in the OD group. Vast and limitless: that really came through… from Source. We are that!

Ria: The 'One' (in the constellation), which we later named Source, said: “Nobody asked! I can do everything, you just have to ask!” For me it was just the same lesson I got from a previous constellation!

Helen: This brings up a question: What has not occurred to us to ask that we can ask?

Ria: For me personally it is: that this work may be the foundation of what I do. The essence - the heart - of what I do. Which will give me the resources to live my life. Just let me do this work! There might be the same question on the collective level too.

Judy: What happened to me when you asked this question, … I couldn't … I was limiting my self. I couldn't get that big! What is the holding back?

Helen: I am getting a huge rush of energy. I almost couldn't contain it, the idea of just having to ask. What could we be asking? Doesn't occur to us to ask.

Helen: The feminine practice is surrender and opening up exactly to that. So maybe the question is what if we could open up to - what would happen if we didn't hold back? What have we got to lose?

Ria: What we lose is the idea of “this is me”. I got a deeper layer of understanding of how attached I am/we are to this identity, this personality. On the first evening of WMTE, everyone was in bed or in their rooms, I was sitting there and I sensed that I had to go deeper and deeper to hold whatever was emerging there. And of course there is part of me that could say “I can't go there, it's too big”, but just sitting and opening and receiving, that's basically it. Not being attached to the idea, or the fear, or… For me I got it more in my body… that's more accurate than saying I understand it. And I would like to look at what if we ask this question for the collective. What is the biggest system that WE can put our arms around? What didn't occur to us to ask?

Helen: I think in our deepest hearts we know that we have to distinguish between the absolute and the relative. We can sink down and sense the absolute vastness, and the world we live in is relative and highly differentiated.

Ria: One question that always came back to me - What if it was just easy? And not difficult?

Helen: I think it is so easy that we are overlooking it. Effortlessly.

Ria: What we do in WMTE is actually very easy. We sit in silence, we receive whatever we receive and we act upon it.

Helen: How do we act on it?

Ria: Within the gathering: we speak, we draw, we dance… We express.

Judy: There is that other piece.. the world is not acting from that place… I don't know, maybe that is what we can ask for: to bring that way of being in the world around us. Many other things that we can ask for too.

Helen: We have been talking about what is the women's way of leading. It can be this holding, and this deep longing - yearning is an essential part of women's practice. Actually just sitting with that hunger makes presence and the holding so much more – you can't hold if you are full. Can hold only if you are empty. Women constantly wants to fill ourselves up. Masculine fills its consciousness with the feminine. The feminine must empty itself in order to hold the world. This is a paradox. Just by coming together we are emptying ourselves in order to listen and questing down in order to feel what is not us, but what we are being called to hold. Doing it together is a strong magnifier, intensifier, a powerful kinesthetic anchor. The more often we do it, the deeper the groove, the more powerful the field we are creating. What is the field full of? The potential for miracles! Full of invitation and listening. Acting in the world is not something we have to worry out. Wise action will emerge. WMtE may be just calling in women to hold a resonant field in which miracles can spring.

Ria: Besides the holding and the listening it is also about the receiving that needs to happen. Receiving life, receiving answers… ‘answers’ is too narrow. It's not just holding, it's receiving.

Helen: Actually it is birthing.

Judy: the elements of the constellation and all the other wisdom that came through… it all builds to each other… the pregnant We, the pregnant She… the birthing was so present in our gathering!

J: I am in awe for this conversation!

J: In this OD group I watched the movement. We talked about presencing, and we moved into this deep place… Someone said: “I don't want to talk about it, I want to do it. But what is it?” I watched the movement going back and forth… from analytical mind, back to the presencing space… I saw it so clearly, two three times… to go deep again… I answered something like: “We were already doing it and the question brought us out of it.” They all looked at me! Later she said: “I'm noticing something that I never noticed before: what Judy spoke is the truth and what I said was the truth also: how to hold both?” A guy in the corner said: “It never occurred to me that I could hold two things!” It is a gift and an honor to see and watch it.

Helen: Story told in the Buddhist traditions. Students go through years of practice and meditation and mantras, then finally they are ready, cooked, and then the master points out to them the nature of the mind. They can't believe it, it is so simple! It is closer to me than my face, that’s why we don’t see it! just sitting in the nature of mind, in the silence, in the I AM. Sitting in that together builds the big container, which can hold whatever needs to cook. So much of what we do is not wise, it is not properly cooked. We haven't put the diverse ingredients together long enough and let them marinate. Peter Merry says: “Wise action comes out of collective clarity.” The feminine principle is all action, manifestation and form in some philosophies, but the feminine can actually sit there and hold the container. We need to keep the lid on it until it is ready. The masculine opens the oven door too early and the soufflé flops. We have to hang in. Get a sense of the timing. What is the knowing that we are ready? A movement, a quickening in the holding that lets us know we are ready. Listening, sensing…

We were all in awe of this short, but deep and meaningful conversation. Dates were set for the next Women Moving the Edge; most likely 15 till 19 February 2008.

And I am adding (Judy) the transcription of this call that Helen so graciously provided.  This gives the word-for-word, so to speak.  Sorry not sure how to just attach.

WMTE call - Ria, Judy, Helen

8 November 2007

Ria: It's good to be in the collective silence. And it's good to have this conversation now. Things are still very fresh from the gathering and I've been working a lot on the harvest of previous days. It's more or less done. And I'm looking forward to the next step in this unfolding process.

Judy: It was interesting that you said something about the silence, because I was also very present with that. Noticing what a collective birthing, or holding, that it is, because amazing things seem to emerge. And I'm noticing that now in other places. I was reading what you put into your blog about the last part of our time together. And I realise that I was pretty much just sitting there, not really saying much, but things were just coming from everywhere, out of everyone. It was absolutely magnificent and so it's like once that space is created, often beginning in silence, the power and the wisdom that happens is just incredible. And it happened the other night with this group that I was with. We had two periods of silence. And that's really new for that group. We'd only done it a couple of times before, and I guess I'd only introduced it a couple of meetings ago…

I'm at a loss for words, really, but I'm seeing this kind of magnified self, in little ways that I never expected. Just the fact that the collective space, being held - whatever that is that's being held there is coming forward more and more. Often, with silence being at least one of the practices that brings it into being - awakens it in circles and people where I hadn't really expected that to happen. And so just rereading the end of this last time of women moving the edge kind of brought that back up to me - not that silence was so present in what you wrote, but it had been present at various times across the weekend, and then things just seemed to flow, and I was silent. I didn't say very much of anything and I didn't even feel like I had to. It was just amazing. So there's something there I'm still working to understand, I guess, about holding silence and the power of silence and the role it might play in birthing this new way of being together collectively and of holding the emergent.

And I feel very honoured to be here with the two of you and the possibility to talk about what's unfolding for whatever the next steps are. I'm very excited about that.

Helen: I don't know whether you felt us holding you while you were over there? There were times when Nina and I were sitting in our office together quietly and thinking of you, holding your unfolding. Don't know whether you were sleeping at the time - but we were thinking of you!!

It's interesting because while I know… it's that knowing - I know what happened. And I know what happens in these unfolding moments. Obviously, it's not something that is easy to put into words. But I know the limpid clarity and simplicity and rightness the complete naturalness of it - as if it's something we have always known how to do. The Dutch is vanzelfsprekend. The French is il va de soi. The English is - what? Taken for granted, I guess! Of course this is how we do it.

I resonate so strongly, Ria, with what you said. Partly about the silence - my silence is so big these days. I haven't yet found - one of my questions at a recent Art of Hosting training in Holland, where my biggest question was “What's the biggest system I can host?” And really it's an extraordinary thing, but from this space the system is limitless. And we are limitless holding it - we are innumerable holding it. Already and always. And I notice these miracles happening in unexpected places, that come from just holding in that vast silence. And acting from that knowing as if whoever it is that's in the room and in the conversation is also in that space. Some really weird things happen!

Judy: I resonate with what you are saying, Helen. I was sharing with Ria earlier this week that these miracles are happening and I think I may be more open to it now, because in the WMTE constellation, that was the big ‘Aha' for me - that the world wanted collective knowing to be closer. To come towards it. To be there. This week, I wasn't really doing anything. Although I was certainly, within myself, being very present to holding the space. I was in amazement of what came through in this little group of about ten consulting people. I was amazed. So stuff happens!

I think you used the word vast, and limitless. That really came through in WMTE this time from Source. It's totally vast and limitless and we are vast and limitless. We are that.

Helen: Big mind, big heart.

Ria: Do you remember, Helen, the constellation we had in the Jedi circle? Julian was the Force at that time. He said “You just have to ask”. It was the same thing. She called herself at first “the One” and then it become “Source”. And she kept on saying “Nobody asked!! Ask! I can do everything!” My God, this is the second time!

Helen: OK, there's a question coming through here… What do we need to ask? What can we ask that it has not occurred to us that we can ask?

Ria: For me, personally, it is that this work may be the foundation of what I do. The essence, the heart of what I do. Which will give me the resources to live my life. That's on the personal level. There might be the same question for the collective, too.

Judy: Are you saying that if this work is the essence of who you are and the work that you want to do, is there a way to earn a living doing it?

Ria: I don't think that's the question to Source. It's a question - just let me do this work! Not if maybe but….

Helen: I've just been getting such a huge rush of energy coming through me that I almost couldn't contain it physically. Just at the idea that we just have to ask, and what is it that we could be asking that it doesn't even occur to us to ask. It's like “Anything?” - “Anything”!

Judy: I think what happened to me when you asked that question was that it was so big that I couldn't - I was somehow limiting myself, I couldn't get that big. So it's interesting to notice that and to think about what is the holding back that's going on there - what is the question that's really under…

Helen: For me, the feminine practice is surrender. Opening up, exactly to that. So maybe the question is: what if we, collectively, could open up to… What would happen if we didn't hold back? What would that mean? What are we afraid of? What have we got to lose?

Ria: What we lose is the idea of “This is me”. I got a deeper layer of understanding of how attached I am - we are - to this identity, this personality. At the first evening of WMTE, everybody was in bed or in their rooms. I was sitting there and sitting there, and at a certain moment I could sense that I had to go deeper and deeper and to just hold whatever was emerging there. Of course, there is a part of me that could say “I can't go there, it's too big!” But just sitting and opening and receiving - that's basically it. And not being attached to the idea or the fear or… For me it's a deeper - I got it more in my body. That's better to say than understanding. And I would like to look at what this question says. What if we asked the question for the collective. In your words, Helen, what is the biggest system that we can put our arms around. Or what didn't we ask - what hasn't it occurred to us to ask?

Helen: I think in our deepest hearts we know. But we have to distinguish, I think, between the absolute and the relative. Because I think we're finding it quite easy to sink down and sense the absolute vastness and yet the world that we have to act in is limited and relative and highly differentiated.

Ria: One question that always came back to me, I spoke it just a few times in the gathering. What if it was just easy? And not difficult?

Helen: That's the thing. I actually think that it's so easy that we're overlooking it. I think it's something that we can do so effortlessly.

Ria: What we do in WMTE is very easy. We sit in silence, we receive whatever we receive and we act upon it. That's the simple version of it.

Helen: How do we act on it?

Ria: Within the gathering, we speak it; somebody might say “let's dance”, or ” I want to do a drawing”… That's what we act upon.

Helen: So we express.

Judy: Well there is that other piece of action… Helen's referring to the fact that the world is not operating in that rarified place - and then the action into the world. That came up this time, of course, and it's come up before. I don't know - maybe that's what we can ask for. Is how to bring that way of being into the world around us. That's certainly one possibility - I'm sure there's many things we could ask for. That's probably limitless too!

Helen: I think you've hit the nail straight on the head. We've been inquiring into what's the woman's way of leading. What's the feminine practice. And it does seem to be this holding. It can be also this powerful longing. This deep and agonising yearning that is really an essential part of women's practice. What we normally do is act it out and feed ourselves in some way or trying to fill ourselves up. But it's actually sitting with that hunger and that longing makes the presence and the holding so much more… I mean, you can't hold if you're full! You can only hold if you're empty. But the woman is constantly wanting to fill herself up, just the way the masculine is constantly wanting to empty itself. And yet what the masculine practice is, is to allow itself to fill its consciousness with the feminine - while the feminine has to empty itself in order to be able to hold the world. So it's a paradoxical thing. But just by coming together the way we've come together and doing the things we are doing, we are emptying ourselves out in order to listen. And we are quieting ourselves down in order to feel what isn't us but what we're being called to hold. Doing that together is such a strong magnifier, intensifier of the feeling, that it's quite a strong - in NLP terms it's a powerful kinaesthetic anchor - and the more often we do it, obviously the better we get at it, the deeper the groove we create, the easier it becomes, but also the more powerful. We are creating a powerful field. And a field, again - is it empty? or is it full? And what's it full of? Emptiness? It's full of something. It's like it's full of the potential for miracles, but it's full of this invitation and this listening.

But I don't think we have to do any more than that. I think this business of acting in the world is not something we have to worry about. I think that what we're doing is holding a field in which wise action can emerge, but it doesn't have to come from us. So maybe that's part of what WMTE is calling in more and more women just to hold a resonant field from which miracles can spring more and more out of the collective space, wherever it happens to be.

Ria: Great, wow! When you were speaking about the holding and the longing, and you said about the space where miracles can happen - but also the receiving. Receiving what needs to happen. Receiving life, you could say receiving answers, but answers is way too narrow. It's not just holding, it's also receiving…

Helen: Well, actually, it's birthing.

Judy: I've noticed throughout this conversation that the elements of the constellation and all the other kinds of words and wisdom that came forward in this last WMTE - and really the first one too, they seem to be building on one another - it's all here, coming into a new fullness… Just this idea of birthing was so present. The pregnant we, the pregnant collective she. So just as we're talking, it's all present.  I'm kind of in awe of that, actually.

Ria: Yes, me too! (some talk about dates in February for the next WMTE in Belgium) I think this was a good foundation, what we already talked about.

Judy: It's interesting to see what happened just now. Of course, I'm the one that did it, but in this group the other night, I watched this movement… for people who are not used to moving into the very present space, we've talked a lot about presencing in this group and most of them were not even sure if they'd ever been there, and so we really moved into this very deep place, and then one of them said something like “I don't want to talk about it, I want to do it. What is it that going to do?” And the whole energy just dissipated. It's like she put a puncture in the field by asking this logical question. And I watched that happen a couple of times, but we were able to go deep again. So it's really interesting to watch the movement back and forth if somebody brings in a logical or analytical or rational mind kind of piece. And then it's a different mind, a different presence, a different way of knowing, than the wholeness of knowing, the intuitive sensing - whatever that is - that allows us to move into the presencing space. And I think I've known that logically before, but I saw it so clearly with those movements, two or three times back and forth, and yet the group was able to go there again. To go deep again.

Helen: Did you ask the group if it noticed that?

Judy: I said something. I said that - when this woman asked that question, I said something like for me, we were already there, we were doing it, and that now I noticed that the question brought us back to a different place. So they all just kind of sat there and looked. She didn't say anything right away, but later on she said - and this is emerging all over the place any way - but she said “I'm noticing something I've never quite noticed before. And that is that what Judy spoke is a truth, and the question that I had is also a truth. And I want to learn how to hold them both!” And they all just went “Wow!” And then a guy on the other side of the room had a total epiphany about that. He said “it has never occurred to me that I could hold more than one thing. It's always been either or.” So it was like magic. Magic happens! So I think that at least some of them noticed the back and forth between two different kinds of energy. It's just wonderful to see it and watch it, be part of it, feel it, sense it. It's a gift, it's an honour.

Helen: There's a story that's often told in the Buddhist traditions - the students go through years of preparation, meditation, practice, mantras, accumulation of merit - and finally when they're ready, when they're cooked, the master points out to them the nature of their mind. And they go “I can't believe it! This is so simple! It's closer to me than my own face, which is why I've never been able to see it before!” It really is just sitting in the nature of mind. Sitting in that silence, in that “I am”.  Full stop. It's not I am this or I am that - it's just that I-am-ness. And sitting in there together builds a big container. It's a container that can hold whatever needs to cook. And I think that so much of what we do is not wise because it's not properly cooked. We haven't put the diverse ingredients together enough and just let them marinate. Let them cook. Tim Merry said “Wise action comes out of collective clarity”. This container that we can hold - and because we don't have the same… I'm not talking about women here, I'm talking about the feminine… since - interestingly enough - in some theories it's the feminine principle that is all action, all movement, all manifestation, all form - it is nevertheless not the agentic, Eros acting, but the feminine that can sit there and create the container to allow all these different ingredients to stew. And part of what we need to be able to do is to keep the lid on it until it's ready. Whereas the masculine, agentic, let's get action in the world opens the oven door and the soufflé drops.

Judy: That's true! That's just what happens!

Helen: And you get a lot of flopped soufflés going out in the world, because you've got to hang in there with the timing. And the funny thing is that again - what is the knowing that we're ready? It's as if there's a movement and a quickening that comes in the holding, that let's us know that we're ready. Again, it's a sitting and a listening and a sensing.

Re: From WMtE2 to WMtE3

WMtE Skype Call Nov. 25, 2007 Ria, Judy, Helen

SILENCE

Conversation begins:

Ria: Grateful for the silence - deepened the field between us in this way. During our conversation I try to stay as close as possible to this deeper field

These days are busy in my thinking and trying to write about a model that is emerging - that goes from spirit to the real world and down to source.

It came from my inquiry since the summer: What is it that I'm doing when I'm holding space? What does it mean?

It's too big to tell everything, but it's a good framework to see what we're doing with WMtE and why “wholeness of knowing” is important.  As I try to bring in all the elements of Theory U, etc. I come to this term of “Collective Presencing”, and I think that's really where we're at.

There's only 14 or 15 google entries that show up when you type in “collective presencing”.  It feels very good.

One very practical thing is that we need to look into the dates - or I have to tell about the dates we have more or less set last time.  The stone is back in the center.

Helen:  I will take the stone.  I am awakening to the insanity of the life that I and people around me are leading.  I see and hear a lot.  James O'Dea - clock time has been accelerating …. quote in current Kosmos.

We have to take a stand against this.  When I am doing well, I feel like the eye of the storm.  But I get sucked in. Then I get sick.  It seems the Feminine task - to stand there in our aprons and call the world to order.  Let us stop this. It is unsustainable.  We are all living in this myth.  Like the white rabbit of Alice in Wonderland.  We could wake up and just stop.  What of this actually matters?  What of it is even real?

Judy:  Wow, these are Powerful Stones!

Helen: YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

Judy: It sounds like deep stuff is going on for both of you; probably for me too… how to articulate exactly… sitting with all that was happening; finding my direction… I don't have the 9 to 5 job, there is time to explore, and the vast opening is sometimes overwhelming. What are all the possibilities? And its responsibilities? If I do one thing, a whole lot of things begin to happen.  It is like affirmations.  For me it is about getting myself out in the world. To just do it.  I started blogging.  Something I have been thinking of for a long.  And finally I am just doing it.  Tim Merry's podcast (from Helen) struck something really strong for me - to not let beliefs stop me.  It is only me stopping me from my future potential.

We can only stop ourselves! It is also a collective challenge. The idea of “collective presencing”; I like that! Amy Lenzo said to check out Google to see what is out there using the web site words and phrases I am drawn to.  On several collective women's leadership and intelligence related phrases, Ria's blog showed up! Multiple times!  Wonderful, multiplicity, complexity. What is popping to the surface? Trusting that more income will come; this is the time for the hibernating, going inside, for discovery of the yet-to-emerge.

Helen:  Tim Merry talking on the pod cast.  Harvesting is a huge added value.  Like the question from our first WMtE - What is holding us back?  What are we not even thinking of asking (from our last conversation about asking Source)?  Both of you have collected the wisdom and the karma to be outside of the rat race.  I am bobbing along in it.  To a great extent where the problems are generated - in the rat race, guiding the human trajectory.  Getting out is like escaping forwards.  I sense the real tide rising.  We are imbedded in this culture and the clock time structure.  I need to provide security for my kids.  I also feel like I'm leaning into the folly, but my connection with you two and others sitting on the banks holding space, that connection gives me … - it's like you are holding me so I don't get swept away.  Being imbedded in these communities of inquiry creates a space of stillness.  This stillness needs to be brought into those busy spaces.  Part of my practice is staying present while chaos is all around - and to take that spacious presence into the madness.  Expand the eye of the storm.  Create more stillness and call more people in.

Recently our Action Learning Coaches sat in circle (had never done that before).  We asked questions, deepened our inquiry, it was so delicious.  It made a huge difference to the people there (especially 2 men who had never done that). We took the connection and the quietness with us.  All went away healed in some way.  Our commitment was strengthened by the nourishment we received.  We received the courage to step up and to do work together.

Judy: It reminds me of one of the big learnings of WMtE: “the world is ready”. Seeing the opportunities and seizing them… moving into the quiet circle space; my sense is that we can do it more and more. It is not only about creating gatherings, but to bring these practices wherever we are. Part of me yearns for that (the out in the world space)… wants to be in there, in the middle… to know more about how to make sense of it and use the tools that I have learned. Then people go away changed.

Helen:  quote from Nancy Roof, Kosmos.  After a weekend with a group, a group of strangers, we became like an intimate family.  Not all one project, but the diversity of our compelling needs to transform and expand.  “Our collectivity nurtures the actualization of our individual contributions to the whole.”

Ria: I'm wondering if we can already see from this conversation and the previous one, what is the next step or the next step/level/specific purpose for the next WMtE?

Helen:  Are we prepared to host something bigger?  We don't know! What is the purpose of the next WMTE?

Judy:  Bigger could happen! It could be a different kind of gathering. I sense the two smaller ones were needed to go deeply and to ground it. Yet, maybe the next step is to expand. One practical challenge is venue, commitment to size, etc. The form of the gathering might be different. Also some women from the first one want to return.  That will be new. Not sure what is the next purpose… it is important as what is said in the invitation has a certain calling.

Helen:  Likely a larger group.  Know others who would like to come, as well as several who where there last time.  There is something about learning to host a slightly larger group.  Purpose going in may not be the same as the purpose we hold during, or the purpose of our coming out the other side.  Important to stay in this quality of communication and have collective clarity about purpose at all times.  Sensing the field together.  Sharing, touching in constantly.  Lovely dance between sensing and acting and sensing and acting.  If there are more than a circle of 9, it will be hosting open space, I think.  Law of self-responsibility.  We will want to develop a ritual to help leave the ego at the door.  We can play with creating and birthing that ritual between now and then.

(more on the rat race we are in)

Can we ask that the world stop?

Can we ask that it goes in another way?

Ria: What if it were just easy?

Helen:  Which it is, of course.   So what is the secondary gain of making it so complicated?

Ria: it seems as if we're so important! Recently I met a friend from first year university - went into sales and marketing - I'm working too hard, he said. I asked: Why don't you stop? Why don't you work less? He - Yes, but it's not possible…

Oh my God - this is just illusion! Then one week later I heard about the same type of function in another firm where two people shared the same job!  So it is possible.

Helen:  If people think they're the only ones.

Judy: They are attached to their “In-the-world identity”

Ria: people think they're too important or people think they can't do it! Your story about your two kids - reminds me of when I was just divorced - I wanted to do a training, and couldn't, but the year after, the same question arose and I just did it - because I was in a different space.

Helen:  What might be a practice?  Starting with the little things, catching ourselves saying we couldn't do that; and saying, well let me try.  Gently move out of that limited mindset.

As women that is often in us from an early age.  I am learning a lot from my own daughter.  She wants to be an author and make her living from writing.  She is 12 and she knows this is what she wants.  She can't spell, but that is not an issue.  I don't want to discourage her, I just do what I can to support her.  We do it for each other.  We must Mother and Sister ourselves and each other.

Some discussion of practical issues:

Ria:  Waiting to hear from venue about the weekend in mid Feb. as some others are there that weekend.  Weekend of Feb. 1-4 is totally open.

After some discussion we decided on Feb. 1-4, 2008.

Judy will email existing sista's about the dates.

Judy will start the invitation process.  Will start with sense of our conversation now - the questions we have been talking about.

Ria will look into budget and pricing.

Next call Sunday Dec. 9, 8 PM Europe, 2 PM US EST

Re: From WMtE2 to WMtE3

Women Moving the Edge 3 Skype Call Dec. 9, 2007, Ria, Helen & Judy

SILENCE

Check-in

Ria: Busy with many invitations. Reading through the zaadz stuff in our pod. Most impressed by “What is the question we can ask that we haven't thought of yet” and the wild energy, the firestorm in the last gathering, and the gentle fierceness. That is why I decided to include in the invitation the things we already discovered and the questions for now.

Judy: Sometimes in the silence, it is hard speak and to come out of it; it is a sacred space and I sense the triangular energy between us: very appreciative of that. I like very much the invitation; and see the weaving from where we have been. I burst out laughing every time I see the picture of wildness.  Good to spend some time today making refinements. A gathering earlier this week with many women, I want to spread the invitation.

Ria: This wild energy: I knew this would be the seed for the energy of the next one.

It was already there in the first one with the gentle fierceness.

Helen: Back from weekend in Amsterdam.  Totally unexpected.  Met up with one of our sisters whom I first met in Feb. this year.  A remarkable woman.  Husband just died.  She was telling stories about him - rare form of prostrate cancer, Dutch bank executive, wanted to die consciously.  We connected in a way I have not experienced before.  She is totally luminous.  She is very interested to come to next WMtE.  Want her to meet Marianne.  I was completely in awe.  She is aware of the impact one can have.  She saw in the last weeks of her husband's life - people coming to his bedside to ask his advice.  If can do this on our own, think of what we can do together. I have a very powerful intent for this gathering.  Warrioresses coming together.  Not little women. Not women who think they cannot do anything.  We will see what comes up in the middle as to where we will act first.

Warrioresses

Follow-on discussion

Judy: Your bringing in warrioresses reminds me of the last WMtE.  We did a meditation on Scorpio - full moon of Scorpio - What is the feminine warrior, is there feminine form of warriorship? Seems not to be a feminine word.

Helen:  I see myself in the Commission as holding a light in one hand and sword in the other - to cut through ignorance and fear and to shed light onto what is real and worth fighting for.

Ria: Question that lives in me: are we supposed to hold space for the world. Teaching from native Americans, in 2012 the gods would stop their support for the earth. Are we supposed to hold space for the whole world?

Helen:  That brings up in me - Are we supposed to? and that the gods would stop their support for the Earth?  Gods are not outside of us.  Time to start doing this work for ourselves.  We can choose to do that.  Someone needs to do that. We can step in and influence.  World needs to have some sense opened into it.  Relates back to the insanity of our overbusyness about nothing.  I have gathered to me a small core of women who are happy to inquire into how we call this out inside the Commission at large.  And hope to call Pauline (woman in NL) as well.  Just quit her job.  I will admit I consumed a truth drug in a cafe.  But I felt like falling in love with  this woman.  She said that in the end no barriers between her and husband.  What if the purpose of relationship is that there is nothing left between us at the end.  How I felt.  Shared space of understanding and light.  Reminiscent of what we achieved at the end of our first gathering of WMtE.  Asked her “what have we not dreamed of asking?”  Wanted to think about that.

Judy: About 2012 - predicted in many cultures - we really are part of the people of the planet that are doing that for all (holding the space in consciousness) in some way; allow some of the bigness of that in our consciousness. What we do is contributing to these new grooves of consciousness. Being a pathfinder. Talking about love, and no separation - it has come up before - we can have love that is totally not-sexual; totally luminous, all-encompassing. Something new might come up here, a door that is just opening.

Helen:  I think of 2012 as a door.  A large scale awakening made possible by the work we and others are doing.  Also something about bigness.  The feminine path is opening up to embrace (masculine - top down, points down, focus).  Danger is women's path there are no boundaries so can be abused.   So must put down boundaries.  Then the next stage is to open up more, then boundaries, then open more.  How big can we hold, how big can we host, when we get to our edge, our relationship with all that is, an active relationship, walking out to meet it, rather than waiting, stepping out together - Angelic Trumpets.  Boo! We are here!  Then engaging in relationship where it is safe for people to lay down their boundaries.  That's how we become a collective Buddha - when there is nothing between us.  Amen!

Rest of discussion was about the invitation.  We hope to have it out in about a week.

Next call Tues. Dec. 18.  11:30 AM US, 5:30 PM Europe

Re: From WMtE2 to WMtE3

Our Most Recent Skype Call
As I reviewed our notes for this posting, I am touched deeply by the potential of this work.  It is so rich with possibility.  We are Moving the Edge.  

 

Women Moving the Edge, Skype Call - Ria, Helen, Judy, Jan. 4, 2008

Silence

Check-in:

Judy: Wonderful to be in this space that we create together. Excitement about many things coming up. It is all work with shifting consciousness; working on some edge. Some part of me really likes it, and the other part feels a little bit scared… what if it is easy? Something is shifting on the planet.

Elections in US: two surprising results - Iowa: African-American; the fact that he is emerging in this seems very significant. He is a very special person. Wonderful to watch, there might be a chance for the US to change its role in the world…

Helen:  Barak Obama demonstrates some complex thinking according to some circles I listen to.  But can he be too advanced for America?  We have to be ready for whatever happens.  2008 seems like a great pregnancy leading up to 2012.  Could be a significant shift in consciousness - do we have to do it ourselves or is there possibly some shift in frequency that will boost us?  My sense is a lot of potential for big shifts and for people to hop on the band wagon.

Spent Christmas caring for family and writing a review of Peter Merry's book - Evolutionary Leadership.  Hugely important set of tools.  No mention of women.  In this process I realized that I have actually started doing the work that he describes in the book.  Very reassuring to reread and see how relevant it is to what I am doing in the Commission.

Spent days with Marianne and David after Christmas.  They are now in retreat.  We talked about a systems centered approach they have been learning.  Explains some of the extreme usefulness of Marianne's presence at WMtE 1.  A few interventions that she gave us there were beneficial, I think.  It is useful to have theoretical underpinnings to hold in the background.  And 2008 is my year to become sensible and sustainable, not be flapping all over the place.  Have connected to the concept of the fact that it is happening and we are participating.  We are not making it happen, but it won't happen without us.

Ria: Back home after two weeks away - 20°C, slow pace, nature. La Gomera! Intense time. Went for self deepening. Automated writing. Started writing for others. Wonderful. Automated writing - I write my question, and don't think about it, don't focus on the question but go with broad sensing, widen the perception and then words come up and form sentences and create meaning. I don't know the end of the sentence when I start the beginning of it. It's a way of accessing a deeper layer of knowing, of wisdom inside of me. Because I am who I am, this is also a very physical process, but I got conscious about some tension around my stomach, that I normally don't feel because I ate too much. I'm now trying to eat less - fasting gives you another kind of frequency - I try to establish that, but I sense the difficulty that now I'm back in Belgium and the normal way and there is less harmony around that.

I have to start writing - about all this knowing and wisdom. I have to do it in a way that integrates the feminine and masculine. Not only a personal story or an academic research paper, but a synergy. I don't know where it's going, but I start anywhere. It all started with this question “What is holding space?”

One very strong moment: I could feel the pain of the feminine that wasn't able to live to its full potential - evolution: there were times when the feminine was more dominant and then the masculine side had to come so we could learn about consciousness, individuality, core vocation, etc. In the mean time, the feminine (in both men and women) could not live its full potential. There was deep pain at that moment, and I think that's what we are trying to bring to the foreground, not as a new dominance but as a new synergy/integration.

And the conversation unfolds:
Helen: What you say speaks to me.  Really we are trying to bring balance.  I was having this conversation with Marianne.  What are we doing with WMtE?  What story are we telling ourselves?  She thought we need to be more professional in setting dates, etc. to get high level women leaders.  Or if that is not who we want to come, we must find a cheaper venue.  So who are the women we are attracting?  We inquire into “what is” with whoever shows up.  Women we seem to appeal to are women on the path to waking up.  They have the time and availability and resources to turn up.  Suggests they also have some availability in their lives.  Still space to express and expand themselves.

Then look at what we as a group might do together.  Leadership Appreciation, for example, did not seem to be the path for the group.  So what is it?  Inquiry, collective inquiry?  And possibly the feminine modes of that - all the feminine ways of knowing.  I am looking forward to creating art work (as was done in WMtE 2).  And there is playing with the field.  It is the space we are holding, it is not nothing.  The image is of firemen standing around portable trampolines where they catch people jumping off buildings.  The Field is tangible.  It is not nothing.  Question of “What is the need we are sensing in the world?”  What is our purpose then if we are to meet that need?  How would we put that into words?  What are our principles in terms of how we behave together in pursuit of our purpose in the world?

Ria: Sense the need in the world - to learn how to be present - all - and to be present in this field that we build together, and to keep both the community and the individuality.

Helen:  So we are talking about moving, not the herd mentality, not purple.  Not green.

Ria:  Turquoise really.

Helen: So we are talking about learning a behavior, about being in community as an individual (leaving ego at the door) and being in community for the good of the whole.  What is the need that meets?

Ria - complexity will be so big in the world that we will need these communities at all levels of governance.

Helen:  A need to evolve.

Ria: it's because of *our* passion that this happens.

Helen:  You are speaking from the center here, what you are sensing.  Not for yourself.   So what do you think it is about us being women?

Ria: The “Wholeness of Knowing” that we have been exploring - there is more in women than in men - this inner, deep wisdom, that's not available in thinking - but in going deeper into Source. Knowing reveals itself in expression - while I'm writing, while doing the drawing, understanding while dancing - a kind of balance in knowing. Balance between source and spirit. The feminine is closer to Source. This inward knowing. The masculine is more towards consciousness, witnessing, building theories.

In this expression - in the knowing by expression, there seems to be more harmony. Like you said, these drawings are so beautiful! Something about harmony.

Helen: I had a conversation with David.  He was talking about concepts and how destructive and poisonous they are.  Important to speak from that space of authenticity, not ego space.  What you call “Wholeness of Knowing”.  How is it that we can come to that space deep within, the Source you call it, which has to do with this deep knowing?  Not concepts coming from that mental space?  How do we live listening to this inner connection, this resonance, then we can come together.  What happens in that resonant space, in total congruence, personalities gone?   How can I live in that space?  Also something about what is my work in the world?  When am I called to support others in their work?  When am I called to my work in the world?  Distinguish between them and context where we have work collectively.  Regular work together or one-off CircleBeing like WMtE.  Yet building on the field that is already there.  What are we building?

What is the pattern we are holding?  What is my own resonance and how can being with other women help me to find my own work in the world?

 What is our Circle Task during this time?  Might come out of circle conversations.  Just emerges in the center.  Good to have the question there to hold this pattern the way we are now.

Judy: What came to me: wanting to bring forward something deep in me; something that we are birthing in consciousness - the wholeness of knowing, the feminine; that needs to emerge - and be integrated into a new whole. All that you have been talking about are parts of that process. The book, Inside Out, - she talks about the “collective interior”. We need all as individuals to be whole for that. I don't know what the collective interior really is, but incredible magic is possible. Bringing forward that which is waiting to be born; and take its rightful place. Many men have good feminine, but touching Source or Presence is often not easily understood by men. I recently had a group experience where a man wanted to return to structure, a more rational way of interacting.  I reacted a bit harshly; it even surprised me.  I may have been accessing a deeply held collective pain around this; and my own pain as well… something deep inside says: it is enough!

Helen:  Also can be operating from own buttons being pushed.  Also excesses of feminine movement in the past.  Have to ward against reacting to what we think to be masculine.  We must acknowledge the masculine and ground it. It is a thought form that exists.  Let us see where it fits in the eco-system.  Let us ground it so it doesn't take up more space than it is worth.  Whether we like it or not, there is the causal, subtle, then gross.  Gross matter responds to thought forms.  We interpret through our world view, as men or women.  We all have these world views full of ungrounded concepts.  Part of deep knowing is to not act on it, but still sense through.  We all operate from our own view.

Judy: There is a question here for me: my normal mode in the past has been to not to say something; but this was really instantaneous.  There was no holding back.  I want to make that a conscious choice; instead of quick reactive judgment. I embody trying to please; and I have to learn to speak up, to do so from a non-ego space, and to be able to handle the conflict that might result.  In this case I sent this man an email afterwards inviting him to have a conversation around what happened. It is an opportunity for both of us to learn.

Helen:  Learned from Ria to recognize what is mine and the rest to let flow past.  But what about feedback?  Feedback is green.

Ria: Say something appropriate in the context, in a way that can uplift the conversation. From the centre, not from the ego. I think we as women have a responsibility - because we are better at knowing our emotions, we can be more discerning what is emotion, what is ego - it is up to us to show the way.

Helen:  Yes, a great deal of honesty and complexity in discerning.  This is where models can benefit us when they describe a real phenomenon.  For me all 4 quadrants tetra arising.  We are talking about separating our pain from collective pain.  Ways in which they are aspects of the same thing.  Paradoxical - how to respond to an emotional charge without the charge?

Judy: My wanting to have a conversation with him is to not contaminate the group with my stuff (or his). I sensed that he was hurt, and I want to take responsibility for my own emotions.  I don't want to forget it and let it go or just hope it will go away …

Ria: I think I want to come back to one of our previous lines in the conversation: about “when we are in this collective field, everybody with full potential and no ego” we were saying there's some magic that's happening. I do want to understand more about what kind of magic is happening there. I know for sure that there is huge potential. My only purpose for the next WMTE is to go a step further in that discovery. It's related to this question - the wild energy we ended the last WMTE edge - this wildness, this “Go for it!”, and the question of “what hasn't it occurred to us to ask?” For me, that's where it's brewing. The friction of my sensing and what will be.

Are we willing to hold so much energy? So much potential?

Helen:  So it's about also the strength of the container.  Holding that energy.  Could we call it power as well?

Ria:  Containing is something you do in your body.  For me I need to have the container inside myself first in order to hold the container for the group.

I think that's specifically feminine. I think about this wild energy, can we hold that life is fully living through us? Not just now and then a little bit, but this full-blown energy, like dancing all you can from morning to evening.

Helen:  I picture children. That's what children do.  They are completely, crazy, uninhibited …  And yet socialization is learning how to control that.  Wilber describes the journey up through the chakras.  Parts split off at each chakra.  Then we have to go back later to release trapped stuff below.  End point for the journey, of mystical spiritual journey.  Is it altered states with energy we are learning to contain.  Ecstatic energy really.  The more we experience that state, the more we can hold and contain it.  Then it can become a trait or a stage.  Energetic rather than consciousness?

What about when you are alone?

Ria: And be conscious about it - but it's not the consciousness as in meditation where you go up to the non-dual, big mind, etc. It's not only that. You have to embody it all the time, not just when you're in meditation, but every minute of being together. I call it a collective capacity that we are prototyping - the capacity of being a collective and still being an individual. That's different from Andrew Cohen's enlightened communication; they only use talking and mental exploration of high-level concepts of consciousness. I said I wanted silence and everybody went Huh?

Judy: Is there a balance between - huge, wild energy - and containing it (not limiting).

Ria: To give it a space in which it can unfold.

Helen:  That energy is always there, but we are bringing it into ourselves, coming into relationship with that energy.  Do that by sensing it.  Not sure it is in ourselves, our auras, but expressing it through us, through our bodies, and an experiencing of it through our consciousness. Then if we can look at each other around the circle and see that experience mirrored back to us, the aura containing this energy, consciousness expands to being all of these people, and multiplies the experience for each individual.

Judy: What you are describing here is the magic; that energy is alive, electric! We do embody and hold; we experience it individually and collectively.

Next skype call Jan. 12, 2008 - 8:00 PM Brussels time J

Re: From WMtE2 to WMtE3

Here are the notes from our last call.  This was a more practical interchange, but some nuggets as well.  I am fascinated by Helen's thinking and question about 2nd tier language.  I am sitting with ('holding”) that.

 

Skype Call Ria, Helen, Judy  Jan. 12, 2008

Silence

Check-in:

Ria: I don't need a lot of talking.

Judy:  Chaos. Inner.  Not able to quiet and still as well as normal. Still lots of good stuff happening.

Helen: Very strong suspicions about 2008!  There is a lot going on.  Really requiring me to be calm and centered.  My children are extraordinary:  alert and responsive and careful and thoughtful

Ria - let's speak what needs to be spoken and leave all the other stuff out. What needs to be said/arranged.

Discussion:

We moved into a discussion of the practical and logistical planning for the gathering.

There was also brief discussion about how to begin our time in the gathering, to open and create the container to take us forward.  We looked at some of the things we have done in the past.  Music, dance/movement, silence, sitting in circle, checking-in.  Working with a question(s) as a way for each to introduce herself and to come more fully into the circle.

Back into dialogue:

Helen: Important to find a more impersonal space

Judy: Meditation on the first night. Not the full moon - it could be the new moon, when it's darkest. Time of coming from the womb and being born. The cycle where things begin.  Need to check where we will be in the cycle.

Aquarius. The perfect sign for all kinds of things to emerge. The first 2 WMTE were Pisces and Scorpio - thoughtful, deep, inner places.  Aquarius is electric! Buzzing with technology and science. The sign is really electricity.  Innovative, new stuff emerging.

Helen:  Interesting to do that; linking with what is modern and new with the old - a kind of theme: polarities and paradoxes: ancient and new; masculine and feminine; water and electricity; what are the polarities inside the feminine?

To hold a paradox  is very developmental.  And feminine to “hold”.

Judy: I also see a recurring theme with holding - holding back. It's in me all the time - my own inner battle of emergence and development - reflective of something greater? Perhaps I notice it more now. Places where the feminine would hold back before, they are coming forward more. The Hilary moment. Times are changing. It's important that we be here now. She started to tear up slightly. Not a Hilary thing. That shot across the news media. To me it was a feminine moment. It may have won her New Hampshire!  It's OK to be human, to care, to express that. Not always firm, strong and rational. Hilary has done a good job of holding the masculine. I feel encouraged by the cracks that I'm seeing.

Helen:  I feel my capacity expanding.  Off the scale from a couple of years ago.

Who I am now is different.

Judy: l was struck in our last conversation by the idea of automated writing, so I worked with a question.  I wrote in my journal, and it was amazing what just flowed onto the page. The challenge is to put it out there into the ethers - to write, to blog, to be public.

Helen:  Spend so much time now with the written word.  Now more and more important is what is 2nd tier language?  It is very simple and transparent, impersonal and functional. The frills of personal speech are not there, but still warmth and roundness where it is appropriate.

Closing:

Judy asked a question about a man and then Helen went off line suddenly.  Of course we laughed about that.   We tried to reconnect, but this basically ended our call.

Sunday Jan. 20, 8 PM Brussels was selected for our next Skype call.

Re: From WMtE2 to WMtE3

Here is the harvest of our last skype call before this WMtE.  Enjoy.
 
 

Skype Call Jan. 20, 2008  Ria, Helen, and Judy

SILENCE

CHECK-IN:

Ria: Five days - constellations and collective wisdom. Impressive days. I'll try to be short. We set up constellations for things like Belgium, the conflict, Europe, even witch-burning. Deep inside, through these constellations, I got - I could see how in the big time frame of evolution, the feminine at a certain point had to “step back” to let the masculine unfold. I mean the identity - personal Me-ness - to let it unfold. When I was in this constellation of the witch burning, I became something like the impersonal feminine and I saw how there came a split in women and womanhood, where some women stuck to the inner feminine core and others went more with the masculine, and were willing to go there - so there was a split in women - these two types. A lot of competition between women is probably related to that.

Another thing I realised - Johannes calls the feminine the night consciousness, related to the moon, the darkness, all these attributes. He says when you look at somebody with the day consciousness you see who you encounter. With the feminine, you approach them with your back, not with your eyes open. That was revealing to me. Often when you go to these courses, I'm not clear in my mind about what I want to learn. I'm there because I sense I need to be there. I go there with my eyes closed, I go to learn something. I don't know what. That gave me an insight about the “wholeness of knowing”, and all these ways that we know - from walking outside, dancing - how deeply feminine that is. So I'm quite impressed. I feel good. I was tired before, but now it's OK.

Judy: I'm taking in all that you said: so much! I have been pondering the feminine, from an evolutionary perspective - seems to be reflected in the constellation you spoke of. And my thinking also relates to Helen's review of Peter Merry's book - (he is seeking to articulate evolutionary leadership and 2^nd tier leadership) led me to wonder more about what is feminine consciousness in the 2nd tier? How does it come forward now? Understanding - holding the question: What does it look like now?

I also looked at Aquarius: the sun moved into Aquarius about 3 hours ago:  the radical, innovative, visionary, the forerunner of evolution; the place where the collective begins to come into its own. The need of individual consciousness is now evolving into the collective, into oneness, in terms of world service. This time (of WMtE) there could be some more radical things happening! Aquarius: lives on he edge of the new. Having a large expansive view on systems: dying and emerging.

Helen:  Sparked my thinking about 2nd Tier feminine.  What that could mean?  What I sense is that 2nd Tier feminine includes and transcends the agentic masculine.  I am noticing that I have a much greater freedom to act than ever before.  But acting from that Aquarian place of - not knowing what will happen - but acting in response to a need.  Not my own need, but sensing form the outside.  Hosting skills are very feminine.  Skills of listening, holding, inquiring, acting from concern for the whole.  There is much more willingness to step into the fire, to step up, in a way that is quite - vulnerable.  But I don't have a sense of being vulnerable.  No sense of being able to be harmed.

There are a lot of questions around about the feminine at the moment.  Riana Isler - real Wealth of Nations.  The dominator and partnership models; more feminine in the latter.  Evolution is moving from competition and into collaboration.  Must transcend and take with it the masculine agentic.

Judy: A question for Ria: I realise the power of constellation to understand the greater system… I hear the power in what you tell … new insights in the evolutionary path… bigger and bigger… like in my meditation this morning: expanding and expanding. Also in Helen's sharing… how it is evolving in you and coming through you and we can voice it now…

SILENCE

Seemed natural to move into more practical discussion:

Discussion of whom and how many coming the questions they are holding.

Helen:  Do you think it would be an idea to be explicit about the fact that this is not personal therapy group?

Ria:  not really needed.

Judy: We start from a Green place; that is just as it is. We have to live and lead by example. Where are the opportunities to transcend it?

Helen:  Also important to stay in contact with the healthy Green in ourselves.

Ria: We have three others who are repeating - it might be different than they expect.

We can't rely on “last time it went like this, we did this/that” There might be expectations that it will be like it was last year. Just keeping it in mind that we stay fresh and new.

Judy: Marilyn Hamilton and others offering Quantum Women gathering.  SD expert - does research. The gathering looks much more structured. What we are creating is more open, unfolding, and unpredictable.

Helen:  Interesting contrast.  And we might offer harvesting to Marilyn and group on E-Nexus.

Ria - I will publish as much as I can on my blog, and invite the other ladies to read - encourage exchange and collaboration. I would love to see what they would have to tell.

Judy will send Marilyn links to Ria's blog, Zaadz pod, and E-Nexus to invite collaborative harvesting.