The Spirit of Debate, Yes Spirit

In the book “Yes - But What Does It Mean?” Thomas Mosbo writes (paraphrased by myself), Jon Anderson's lyrics express a divine potential in us all. Yet he is not blindly positive. He is willing to see the ugly side of humanity as well, by acknowledging how mankind does not always live up to that potential.

It is indeed normal (but not necessarily natural) for any of us humans to want to see only the good side of life. That's called “Being positive.” And many may say “That's Yes.”

But I compassionately feel that it is ok for us to “see the ugly side” of ourselves as well. I sense that Yes themselves perceived that the Ancients knew this and did not forget this song. “so in time, i integrate the shadow, and consciousness grows” (Thanks Jack). Time for a sweat lodge, or Close to the Edge “now that you're whole.”

I understand that this idea of integration and wholeness is understood in our minds yet I feel it is not so much understood in our hearts. (me included!)

So, to me, if there is ever a place in which healthy debate can occur it is in a Yes forum.

In (the process of) Wholeness,

Mark

(P.S. If anyone wants to hear the above about JA please go to this place in this forum.)

Re: The Spirit of Debate, Yes Spirit

is it too early to discuss 'gates of delirium'?

i felt this song was the most obvious attempt to show how humankind can jump on board the war wagon for seemingly 'good' reasons.  and how quickly we lose our consciousness, if we aren't impeccable in our self-examination of shadow.

Re: The Spirit of Debate, Yes Spirit

Of course not!

Are you refering to my Voice-Over Diagram CD of Gates, being that I mentioned Mosbo?

If so, or if not, how 'bout we discuss it here?

Re: The Spirit of Debate, Yes Spirit

for me, gates of delirium is about how easily the peaceful intentions of sentient beings can be twisted into warful intentions.  it is about how we see our shadow in the actions of 'enemies'.  then we fight and eventually kill in the name of peace.  ours is no disgrace.

i don't think we can beat it, and i think the best we can do is to own it.  i am a creature of war and peace.  i am what i am.  this, to me, is the authentic way, one with all.

is this the yes spirit?  for me it is.  owning my full nature, i am able to use my power more effectively to manifest a world of greater living vibrancy and love. 

Re: The Spirit of Debate, Yes Spirit

Wonderful! I do think this is the Yes spirit!

I also share in your feeling that as I come to accept and own the war within myself, I am then able to authentically be a creature of both war & peace. The mind can get easily deluded into thinking that the true path is to embrace only peace - the glass is half full. To me though, it is more whole, more human, more Divine, more Yes, to embrace both the glass is ½ full and ½ empty.

Re: The Spirit of Debate, Yes Spirit

i meant that ours is no disgrace, but upon further reflection, i see that there is at the same time we are equally valid to feel there is disgrace.  let the shadow in, simultaneously, with the light.

Re: The Spirit of Debate, Yes Spirit

'm trying to understand…”Yours Is No Disgrace” has always meant to me you (Vietnam Vets) are really  innocent.

Yet to “kill in the name of peace” means one is (we are) guilty. Therefore, that is why I asked if you meant that we are guilty for killing in the name of peace, or if we are still innocent even though we do kill in the name of peace?

Re: The Spirit of Debate, Yes Spirit

for me, the song is not only about vets of the vietnam war.  it is about all wars, and it is about all the people from both sides of eah war that have chosen to resolve conflict with conflict.  

we are guilty, and innocent at the same time.  we are guilty of ignorance.  and innocent, because we all have to learn lessons, noone escapes without major blunders as we learn about our blindnesses.

Re: The Spirit of Debate, Yes Spirit

Have you seen Jon's “Tour of the Universe” DVD where he does a version of “Yours Is No Disgrace” with images of many wars? If you haven't and your a JA fan, I highly recommend it!

Yes, we are both innocent and guilty.

This perspective causes me to think about the climax to “I Get Up I Get Down.” While listening to Rick's organs, I could sense all of our humanness buoyantly rising to our own divinity. And thus exemplifying (to me) what you have expressed here, and in your shadow work. I like it.

Re: The Spirit of Debate, Yes Spirit

i haven't been called to get that dvd, yet.  but i'll definitely start considering that possibility.

another song that promotes shadow awareness is sound chaser,  'balance the thoughts that release within you'.