Gaia: zIDEALISTS - On being an Idealist...

Role Variant in Typology

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 05:41:47 GMT

Hey all,

Long time.

Hope you are all out there being the glorious specimens that you are!

I just retook the Humanetrics Typology Quiz again out of curiosity (I'm studying Jung in one of my Psychology classes and we're talking about this stuff). I am back to being iNFj (Counselor Idealist). I'm wondering how many of you who have taken any of the typology tests (Keirsey, Myers- Briggs, Humanetrics or...) have scored differently depending on when you have taken the test.

I'm thinking it is common to have the temperament remain the same, while role variant varies from one time to another throughout life.

Any comments or thoughts?
Thanks!
mu

It All Begins Here: With Self-Truth

Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:25:31 GMT

ULTIMATELY, THERE IS NO SECRET…. True! Some where within you, you resonate with knowing this truth! Somewhere within ourselves we do experience a point of resonance with All knowing.

It is Hugely tiresome though, frustrating, and evil/wrong to keep pretending that someone somewhere else, or some undiscovered book, newest movie, or undiscovered sacred place on Earth, something anywhere outside of our very own being holds us prisoner from knowing that which we passionately seek. STOP IT! Know that THE SECRET is not about something outside yourself that will set you free from all misery! (Well, at least This Knowing will make profound misery easier to bear, and erase the multitudes of small-stuff miseries).

AGAIN! There is no secret! It is rather, all about REMEMBERING, & OWNING, OUR HIGHEST QUALITY OF THINKING AND ACTIONS! This is what the so-called secret is all about. It is about owning the twinge in our gut when we are walking on shaky ground in our thinking & actions - and in that moment choosing the Highest thoughts in our wise-minds rather than the lower thoughts & actions of the herd-mind.

JOIN YOUR THOUGHTS & ACTIONS WITH THAT WHICH YOUR TRICKY GUT RESONATES - FOR THERE YOU ARE WALKING ON SOLID GROUND - THE GROUND OF REMEMBERING, OWNING AND APPLYING THE HIGHEST QUALITIES OF HUMAN POTENTIAL.

It is really quite simple, this challenging & difficult task. Its simplicity eludes us only because we have been afraid of leaving a backward herd and, seemingly, setting out alone to carve out new roads. Surprise! The New Road is already in place, always has been, and is right 'here' available to everyone of us. The New Road we have so fervently sought others have sought thousands of years ago – and found! So stop procrastinating and quibbling about having to find some secret solutions to personal and global dilemmas - we have the answers already - within.

If there is a problem here, a search required, it is about looking inward to understand ourselves better, it is the problem of OWNERSHIP & APPLICATION OF WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW!

Enough said! You already know what you must do. Breathe. Breathe slowly & deeply. Then - Surrender to the Good! We must go now and make peace with all that we have argued with and own up NOW to the wisdom we all already have access to.

Peace & Joy to All,
PJ

Re: being your own idealist

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 03:22:58 GMT

Exactly. It does seem a contradiction.

I think of it in terms of Absolute/relative, knowing that ultimately all IS or everything is One or ... and I perceive "myself" to be here in a relative state or realm or dimension or whatever, so I express and act in these relative terms. (This includes the ideal of change or betterment etc. illusion ir otherwise it doesn't really matter.) And yes, it can be a conundrum to my human mind if I let it be. But, I usually just know that since I perceive myself to be here at this moment, this is the place I will be the changes and hold the ideals that I find to be the best expression of myself and the world as I see it - for now anyway. (Which might equate with 'being my own idealist' eh?) :-)

Anyone else?

~mu

Re: being your own idealist

http://bethechangenow.gaia.com — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:43:59 GMT

totally agree ... but then why change anything? it seems to be a contradicttion.

Re: being your own idealist

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 02:14:56 GMT

Yes. Indeed a lovely perspective.

Real-I-zing that the conditioned state is perhaps as much an illusion as anything else is another. For example.... as much an illusion as 'being yourself' is. From my perspective at this moment (or from the Absolute perspective anyway), there is no 'other' self to be. :-)

Again welcome and thanks for these thoughts.

All the best,
~mu

being your own idealist

http://bethechangenow.gaia.com — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 01:27:52 GMT

start with yourself first ... choose what you would ideally want in your life. not what you are told to want. what you have been soulfully trained to want. but jump outside of the 'isms' box and start believing there is something better for yourself. you don't have to say it like the rest of the idealist say it. you can form your own opinions and become your own being. being who YOU are meant to be. that doesn't come by copying anybody. not me. not them. just to your own self be true. the truth will lead you to. if you really want the truth to lead you. 'be' the change you want to see in the world today. not as difficult as it is made out to be. just start with one small perspective. change that and keep on going. you'll be surprise how the 'ripple effect' will add up and come right back at you. gotta love it! God created an awesome universe. enjoy God now. enjoy the universe now.

Re: IDEALIST (NFs)

http://edmondchicago.gaia.com — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:52:35 GMT

Hi Mu!
Did you survey zaadsters about their Meiers-Briggs scores? It sounds like an interesting project and it may shed light on the type of energy that has been attracted to zaadz....Ed

Re: eNFjs - Idealist Teacher

http://fidocancan.gaia.com — Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:53:57 GMT

hi mu been out of the loop a few weeks and returning to zaads i am surprised at the little uptake of your idealist pod i would have thought it would have been very popular can i ask for your honest opinion based on your experience of course : i have been trying to connect up with people through the net to promote the idea of 2020worldpeace sporadically i am sure but there is some persistance involved and do you think that there is any growth in trying to communicate with already established sites? you see i think the initial seed and trajectory of minds and thinking dictate where the plant will grow and so it makes later additions a little tricky to influence it is more a matter of joining in rather than redirecting... does this make sense....? so i am caught between starting my own thing and being alone or contributing towards other projects that already have their own inertia do you get the dilemma? thanks for taking your time to read this and i much appreciate your comments

Re: IDEALIST (NFs)

http://shannonorama.gaia.com — Sun, 01 Oct 2006 01:13:39 GMT

just for the halibut, I just went and took the test again........ (first took it about 15 years ago) and today i am 100% introvert! funny. hence the hermit manifestation in me, i assume. so easy to be idealistic in my hermitage! for me, it is more like after a day of being beaten down by not only the world but the amazingly dark world that I work in, i retreat as far as possible. sometimes, of course, i get lost. that's the down side!

so much easier for me to interact this way than to go out..... horrors! also, in this form if I get overwhelmed or am avoiding someone/something, its not as obvious as it would be in person! my being a 'dreamer' and idealist don't work well in my occupational choices!

~peace
shannon

Re: IDEALIST (NFs)

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Sat, 30 Sep 2006 08:36:49 GMT

Thanks for sharing your results.

Dynamic equilibrium - I like that.

~mu~

Re: IDEALIST (NFs)

http://fidocancan.gaia.com — Sat, 30 Sep 2006 07:33:05 GMT

Your Type is
ENFJ

Extroverted	Intuitive	Feeling	Judging
Strength of the preferences %
22	38	12	1

but when i did the advisor personality test
i came up with rationalist

in the middle
i think is where it's at

that doesn't mean still and calm
for me
it means
dynamic equilibrium
not so simple harmonic motion
as close to chaotic...

thanks

Re: eNFjs - Idealist Teacher

http://fidocancan.gaia.com — Sat, 30 Sep 2006 07:08:12 GMT

'when their loved ones either resist their pressure or fail to meet their idealistic expectations, Teachers can feel frustrated, disillusioned, or even betrayed by the persons they care most about.'

hitting the mark all the time

i am not a teacher in terms of the personality test
i don't think
nor in any great mystical sense either
just a plain old
boring old
teacher of kids

kids are great
they very often live up to expectations
because all i expect is a little trust
and a little risk

adults a little trickier
i have found...

Re: IDEALIST (NFs)

Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:03:09 GMT

Hi Diane! Thaks for the invitation Mu! I'm Michele and am an

ENFJ

in case you're curious...

Your Type is
ENFJ

Extroverted	Intuitive	Feeling	Judging
Strength of the preferences %
11	62	25	67

I haven't see this in years...fun to be back into it! I'm finding the "second phase is challenging for me...I get literally dozens of great ideas, but when it comes time for the extra stuff on the computer, I'mat a loss...oh well, always more to learn!

eNFjs - Idealist Teacher

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 08:01:00 GMT

The Pygmalion Project: The Teacher

excerpted from The Pygmalion Project: The Idealist, by Dr. Stephen Montgomery

The Idealist most committed to guiding others through the doors of life, or along the pathways of learning and understanding, is the type that Keirsey has named the Teacher (Myers's "ENFJ").

Teachers are natural facilitators in all their relationships, encouraging those around them, urging their personal growth, and taking charge of others (particularly of groups) with an extraordinary enthusiasm and confidence. Indeed, Teachers are so expressive and charismatic in their leadership -- in a word, so inspiring -- that they seem in some ways less coercive than the other Idealists. Keirsey says that, though Teachers are both expressive and role-directive, they manage to "command without seeming to do so," not by means of explicit orders, nor through saintly patience, romantic longing, or mute withdrawal, but by kindling in their students and colleagues their own passion for self-exploration and development. Teachers are masters of the art of positive expectation (or "front-loading"), and they communicate their belief in the evolution of the "self" with such a glow of promise that quite often, as Keirsey tells us, their optimism "induces action" in others, and the "desire to live up to [their] expectations."

Teachers bring all this infectious energy to their intimate relationships as well, and they make passionate and delightfully creative companions. However, at such close range the intensity of their wishes for their loved ones can create interpersonal conflict. Teachers can overwhelm their loved ones with their exuberance, and with their Pygmalion presumption that everyone wants to be helped along the path of self-discovery. Then, when their loved ones either resist their pressure or fail to meet their idealistic expectations, Teachers can feel frustrated, disillusioned, or even betrayed by the persons they care most about.

eNFp's The Advocates

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 07:59:53 GMT

Pygmalion Project: The Advocates

excerpted from The Pygmalion Project: Volume 3 The Idealists, by Dr. Stephen Montgomery

While the shy, seclusive Monastics [now called Healers] (Myers's "INFPs") devote themselves largely to cultivating inner purity, the high-spirited Advocates [now called Champions} (Myers's "ENFPs") turn their energies outward to investigate the public world and to develop their social awareness. Keirsey calls the Advocates "keen and penetrating observers," who "can't bear to miss out on what is going on around them." And he has referred to them both as "Apocalyptics" and "Heralds" because of their fervent desire to spread the news of their experience of good and evil.

Brimming with life, Advocates live more spontaneously "in-the-flesh" than Monastics, and at first glance they can be rather easily mistaken for Artisans. But more than simply seeking the excitement of new experiences, Advocates are interested in understanding the significance of things, and more than simply taking people as they find them, Advocates care about nurturing ethical and sympathetic social relationships. To be sure (and unlike the impulsive Artisans), Advocates are serious and conscientious in their relationships, wanting to nourish human potential and to awaken what they believe to be the latent morality in their fellow-men. In a word, Advocates are romantic in their relation to the real world, seeing high drama in their quest for life, and hearing an irresistible call to enlighten those around them.

Although Advocates are thus more public-minded than the Monastics, and more confident in dealing with people, they are only slightly more directive in their private interactions. Like all the Idealists, Advocates want harmony above all else in their personal relationships, and they are far more inclined to "re-form" their loved ones by presenting them with information than by giving them commands. Nevertheless, Advocates can be quite coercive in their role-informative style of defining relationships. Advocates delight in free discussions of current issues -- they burn with convictions and bubble with meaningful details, yearning to unveil what they believe to be the "true story" of significant events. At times, Advocates will champion a cause with such zeal that they can be carried away with the rightness of their position, and find themselves preaching to their friends and loved ones, trying fervently to convince them of their point of view. Indeed, in their penchant for investigating and reporting "the truth," Advocates can quite easily strain their relationships by reading too much into their loved ones' behavior, by over-interpreting the hidden meanings in their loved ones' words, and by overstating their own romantic views as apocalyptic revelations.

Some "Famous" Idealists

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 07:55:07 GMT

IDEALISTS: "NF"

Arts & Entertainment/Sports/Journalism/Literature

Jane Fonda(Counselor)
Shirley MacLaine
Pearl S. Buck
Charlotte Bronte(Champion)
Emily Bronte(Healer)
Emily Dickenson(Counselor)
Herman Hesse
Albert Camus
James Joyce
Leo Tolstoy(Champion)
Ann Morrow Lindbergh(Healer)
Oliver Stone(Champion)
Erica Jong(Champion)

Politics/Government/Military

Mohandas Gandhi (Counselor)
Eleanor Roosevelt(Counselor)
Leon Trotsky (Champion)
Vladimir Lenin (Teacher)
Mikhail Gorbachev (Teacher)
Thomas Paine (Champion)
Alexander Hamilton (Champion)
Molly Brown "The Unsinkable" (Champion)
Princess Diana (Healer)

Business/Industry/Finance

Science/Education/Humanities/Philosophy/Religion

Lord Alfred Russel Wallace
Siddhartha [Buddha]
Albert Schweitzer(Healer)
Carl Rogers(Champion)
Abraham Maslow
Isabel Myers (Healer)
Carl Jung (Counselor)
Soren Kierkegaard
Plato

Some Online Typology Tests

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 06:59:57 GMT

If you haven't taken any of these personality tests, here are just a few.

I find this stuff fascinating.

Keirsey Temperment Sorter

Humanetrics [Jung Typology] I just took this one for the first time. ( iNFp again - results below) This is the first time I've seen it broken down into percentages like this. It would probably vary from time to time though.

Myers-Briggs [I don't know if they have a free test online here]

There are other online tests. I will post more as time permits.

And, please feel free to post more if you know of them. Also your own test results!

-mu

_______________________________________________________

JUNG TYPOLOGY QUIZ RESULTS- [HUMANETRICS]

Your Type is
INFP (Healer Idealist)

Introverted	Intuitive	Feeling	Perceiving
Strength of the preferences %
67	75	62	33

Re: IDEALIST (NFs)

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 03:29:58 GMT

I have a feeling there are many many "NF" zaadzsters. I've wondered if there is a way I could make a poll somehow to find out what the ratios would be (but that would require that people have taken the tests and knew what they 'were').

Hmmm, thinking thinking.

I'm going to see what I can come up with to do that. :-)

-mu

Re: IDEALIST (NFs)

http://dancingdragon.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 02:39:29 GMT

I have, over the years, come up ENFJ & INFJ.

IDEALIST (NFs)

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:35:57 GMT

For those who have taken either the Myers-Briggs or Keirsey Temperament Sorter and came up as "NF" - this is related to that stuff.
-mu

Copyrighted © 1996-2005 Prometheus Nemesis Book Co.

IDEALIST NFs, being ABSTRACT in communicating and COOPERATIVE in implementing goals, can become highly skilled in DIPLOMATIC INTEGRATION. Thus their most practicing and tutoring (NFP advocating). And they would if they could be sages in one of these forms of social development. The Idealist temperament have an instinct for interpersonal integration, learn ethics with ever increasing zeal, sometimes become diplomatic leaders, and often speak interpretively and metaphorically of the abstract world of their imagination.

They are proud of themselves in the degree they are empathic in action, respect themselves in the degree they are benevolent, and feel confident of themselves in the degree they are authentic. Idealist types search for their unique identity, hunger for deep and meaningful relationships, wish for a little romance each day, trust their intuitive feelings implicitly, aspire for profundity. This is the "Identity Seeking Personality" -- credulous about the future, mystical about the past, and their preferred time and place are the future and the pathway. Educationally they go for the humanities,avocationally for ethics, and vocationally for personnel work.

Social relationships: In their family interactions they strive for mutuality, provide spiritual intimacy for the mates, opportunity for fantasy for their children, and for themselves continuous self-renewal. Idealists do not abound, being as few as 8% and nor more than 10% of the population.