Gaia: zIDEALISTS - Idealists: Gotta Love 'Em

Re: Idealists (NFs) & Relationships

http://spiralpalm.gaia.com — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 01:18:43 GMT

Dunno, it seems to me that until you have knowledge of self, as with anything in this life, it's trial and error. That's how we learn, no? You get to a point where you know what you want in a relationship, and the wise wait for that, solitude be damned. ;p

Anyone here seen A Bronx Tale? Sure, you have. ;p In it, Chaz Palminteri's character's speaking to a kid about the 3 great ones we all have as loves in our lives. If, for some reason, we aren't lucky enough to stay with one of them, those 3, i believe, become a template for what it is u truly seek in another.

It's not to say that what we's looking for has to fit the criteria of your 3 'great ones'. Some of us aren't as fortunate as to have one. But you know it when it comes, and it's not something that you have to tell yourself. You feel it. My girlfriend felt it when she and i met. The person i am in relationships, i can be oblivious to things, and my feelings for her hadn't made themselves known due to certain circumstances, but i definately had an inkling. She's the one, naysayers be damned.

Dunno if i'm off the mark as far as the topic of this thread is concerned, just expressing.

Peace.

On Fear & Intimacy

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 02:02:32 GMT

I have just posted the first installment of my NEW Book of the Month Blog.

October's Book:

The Heart of the Soul - Emotional Awareness
by Gary Zukov & Linda Francis
(copyright 2001)

The first blog installment is On Fear & Intimacy.

All the best,
~mu

Re: Idealists (NFs) & Relationships Cont...

http://monkeys.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:30:18 GMT

thats funny.........hehe

Idealists (NFs) & Relationships Cont...

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 09:05:37 GMT

This article is from Penny Potter's website: [Penny Potter is a certified administrator of the MBTI. She has been providing businesses, couples, and individuals the MBTI (Myers-Briggs) seminars and counseling in the Washington D.C. area for three years. ]

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When Like Likes Like, or

When (NF)Empathists Mate [Slightly scary thought -mu ;-)]

Stolen glances, romantic meetings, exotic flirtations, painful infatuation, smoldering passion, shivering sighs and shuddering palpitations, willing self-disclosure, tearful pledges of commitment, intense intimacy, and almost mystical fireworks are t he way EMPATHIST-EMPATHIST love relationships begin.

Disillusionment, hypersensitivity, hurt feelings, tears, a cosmic sense of abandonment, and a broken- hearted depression which can be alleviated only by a new romance: that's how EMPATHIST- EMPATHIST love relationships end.

To EMPATHISTs, love is such a roller coaster that other types must wonder if the ``goin' up is worth the comin' down,'' but that's the way passion operates among these temperamental types. These are the relationships that F. Scott Fitzgerald herald ed.

When EMPATHISTs mate, their shared idealism is usually involved: a common quest, a spiritual commitment, a philosophical common-ground.

Relationship, per se, usually is a conscious focus of life, as is the exploration, expression and perfection of self. Combining those two objectives often presses EMPATHIST mates toward a continual redefinition and reworking of the relationship: a process of evolution and growth.

With such change comes a sense of excitement, aliveness, newness; with it, also, comes some degree of turmoil and discomfort.

Growth is the goal, the process, the pitfall and the glory of EMPATHIST-EMPATHIST matings.

When two EMPATHISTS are in a situation which allows them to share their intuition and feeling, they are happiest. That's when the relationship usually works best: sharing a spiritual experience, critiquing a play.

Unfortunately, most real-world relationships involve a certain amount of ``taking care of business'': attending to the sensing and thinking demands of society (working for a living, washing dishes, doing laundry, taking out trash, paying bills, keeping the car running and the house repaired, going to the grocery, the cleaners, the PTA, and such). So, in a typical pair-bonding situation, EMPATHIST couples need to volunteer for, delegate, or otherwise cover the reality chores of living together. And that's not usually an easily hurdled obstacle.

One of the first major adjustments that occurs in most EMPATHIST pairings is that one (or both) of them appears to change type. The one who's less gung-ho as an intuitive may be transformed into an (SP)REALIST or an (SJ)LEGALIST. The one whose preference for feeling is less strong may take on the robes of the ``thinker.'' Pretty soon, you might be hard-pressed to recognize them as EMPATHISTS.

Then, you can bet, one or both feels compromised, dishonest with the inner self, and resentful of the other and of the relationship. ``The grass is always greener'' phenomenon may strike particularly hard when two EMPATHISTS try to carry on a long-term relationship.

Ah, but in its moments of glory, the EMPATHIST couple is the stuff of which sonnets are written! Since communication skills are peak for this temperamental type, speech and writing about love's ups and downs are likely to be part of the relationship : poems, notes, letters, and heartfelt telephone conversations may punctuate the days and nights.

Communication, in a general sense, is of interest to the EMPATHIST couple. Critiquing plays, stories and novels is an accepted dinner-time conversation, and the fine-honing of personal philosophy is usually somewhere at the heart of these sharing experiences. Do EMPATHISTS talk (and talk) about their relationship? Do they breathe?

Two EMPATHISTS together may become ``self-actualization'' junkies: following one personal development or spiritual training experience after another, sharing meaningful books and films, following after one or another guru. When there's no money in the budget for frills, there may still be funds for group therapy or private counseling sessions. The quest for self and identity is unceasing for many, if not most, EMPATHIST types, especially when they can feed off each other's energy and commitment.

In a connected relationship, EMPATHISTs tend to ponder the meaning and significance of every gesture, posture, glance, expression, word and silence. EMPATHISTs, in their own unique way, probably ``work'' at love more than any other type, and when carried to extreme the continual analysis of what everything means can be exhausting, even to another EMPATHIST! It may be very difficult for two EMPATHISTs to ``lighten up'' when it comes to just enjoying a relationship.

In their most intense state of connection, the EMPATHIST pair is almost psychic: anticipating each other's mood swings, wants, needs, fears, dreams, thoughts and aspirations, without ever speaking.

As one EMPATHIST woman put it: ``We have our hard times, sure, but we have times together when we breathe in rhythm; I feel his thoughts. I hurt with him. I sense his joy. And he's capable of feeling me the same way. We can tell each other our deepest thoughts. I wouldn't trade that kind of connection for anything!''

But, when the magic needs a tuneup, the dark side of that EMPATHIST sensitivity may rear its head. Suspicion, paranoia, hypersensitivity, and other products of runaway imagination may pollute every interaction, color every communication...

These are some of the troublesome typical pitfalls of the EMPATHIST-EMPATHIST pairing, but we've only been looking at the aspects that are generated by the ``temperamental cornerstone'' of iNtuition and Feeling. As we said in the ``Introduction to Insight,'' these are important characteristics, but not the only ones.

First of all, the partner whose preference for intuition is stronger may see the other as a sensor! And the partner who's most comfortable with ``pure'' feeling may regard the other as a hard-hearted thinking type.

In other words, EMPATHIST couples who differ markedly in the strength of their preferences for feeling and intuition may actually regard each other as ``foreign'' types!

Other important conflicts and misunderstandings may revolve around the dimensions of judging-perception and introversion-extraversion.

For example, an EMPATHIST who prefers judging may consider a perceptive-type partner to be unclear on personal values or inadequately committed to the relationship or to other ``causes.'' The perceptive, in turn, may call the judge narrow-minded and rigid, both in terms of defining the relationship and pursuing personal goals. In either case, they may minimize their areas of compatibility and focus instead on their differences.

By the same token, introverted EMPATHISTS may find their need for peace, privacy, and personal territory continually violated by extraverted EMPATHISTS, whose requests for socializing, contact, conversation, compliments and other strokes and feedback are frustrated by introverted partners.

Neither may recognize the other as a kindred soul because their needs for interaction are so different.

The significance of differences along the introversion-extraversion dimension cannot be overstated. Even though they're both EMPATHIST temperamental types, an ENFP and an INFP represent vastly different personality styles in a close relationship. A nd an ENFJ and an INFJ may have to work very hard at understanding each other's needs even though they have three out of four of the personality factors in common.

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Idealists (NFs) & Relationships

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 08:52:31 GMT

Okay, this is geared towards IDEALISTS who fall into the NF category (Empathist - I LOVE love love that term. It feels so right to me!)

Any comments any of you NFs or others who may be in any kind of relationship with an NF?

- mu

This article is from Penny Potter's website: Penny Potter is a certified administrator of the MBTI. She has been providing businesses, couples, and individuals the MBTI (Myers-Briggs) seminars and counseling in the Washington D.C. area for three years.

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Know Your Mating Type:

The iNtuitive Feeler (NF) Empathist

Relationships are the central concern for the existence of the intuitive feeling (EMPATHIST) type. Values are what matter in life.

As an EMPATHIST you strive for a special union, a mystical connection, a knowledge of the other that is so profound that words aren't needed for communication. The EMPATHIST wants to make a mystical connection with one special partner: growing, learning, understanding, maturing, as a continuous process throughout life.

Coming to know oneself, coming to understand one's needs, one's fears, one's strengths, one's intuition, one's sensitivity: that is the mission of the EMPATHIST.

The EMPATHIST spares no time, energy or commitment in relationships. The EMPATHIST will compromise all other parts of life for the sake of caring, for the sake of satisfying the life-mission.

The EMPATHIST hopes to find a partner to share life's journey. The EMPATHIST seeks a fellow pilgrim open enough and flexible enough to encounter self and mate without pretense or facade, to embrace the unfolding process without reservation, to love unconditionally, to accept another totally and to be accepted in return.

The EMPATHIST generally sees this lifetime as an interlude, a preface to some more cosmic form of existence and being.

Joan of Arc was an EMPATHIST. They thought she was crazy and they burned her at the stake. EMPATHISTs: take this as a serious harbinger of the fate that befalls you idealistic souls who search for a flawless relationship, especially with any of the other temperamental types!

The EMPATHIST is romance personified. The phrase ``falling in love'' was certainly coined to describe this type. Love may come with a glance, a single word.

The object of an EMPATHIST's affection will be called ``dear'' and ``honey'' and original pet names. ``I love you'' will punctuate each phone conversation and note. The EMPATHIST wants to spend every moment with the loved one or at least a lot of time. Taking care of the mate is a reflexive activity for EMPATHISTs, and gift giving is a natural part of any EMPATHIST love relationship.

The EMPATHIST is usually more interested in romantic possibilities than in the day-to-day reality of relationships. Thus, when disillusionment strikes, when the relationship degenerates to humdrum predictability and staleness, the EMPATHIST may immediately begin eying the greener grass on the other side of the fence. Then the honeymoon is usually over for good!

The EMPATHIST can use that characteristic sensitivity to tune in to every ripple of mood and sentiment in a mate. Or the EMPATHIST can become destructively hypersensitive and suspicious. In the course of any relationship, both modes usually occur.

For the EMPATHIST, sex is fraught with meaning. The EMPATHIST overwhelmed by love aches for union. The EMPATHIST, angry about some routine matter, can't think about sex. Everything must be right, the mood, the setting, the person. Sex may always be an on-again, off-again thing for EMPATHISTs in the usual up and down love relationship.

The EMPATHIST's conflicts with all the other types will revolve around definitions of the words relationship and love. The EMPATHIST's meaning for these terms is central to the EMPATHIST identity. The EMPATHIST's frustration and pain over missed communications and hurt feelings are totally incomprehensible to all the other types.

A chronically broken heart is a way of life for many searching, seeking EMPATHISTs.

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Oh, let's hope not! Let's change that! NFs deserve love too! ;-)
I don't resonate with all of this, but most of it seems pretty darn close. - mu

Mating & Temperament

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 08:30:34 GMT

Mating and Temperament

All sorts of factors enter into our choosing a mate. Where we live plays a large role in determining the people we meet; likewise our age, race, religion, and educational level influence our range of romantic contacts. For some, there are obligations of social class to satisfy, family expectations to consider, or economic circumstances to take into account. And certainly our physique makes us attractive to some and not others as well as attracting us to some and not others..

Another factor determining our choice, at least as powerful if not more, is temperament. Given a number of choices determined by all the other factors -- national origin, social background, physical attraction, and so forth -- we will select our mate according to temperament.

After all, what do we mean when we say that a person is, or is not, "our type"? For some this might have to do with physical appearance, indicating a preference for a certain height, weight, hair color, or the like. But more often the phrase "my type" suggests an awareness that we are most attracted to, and get along best with, a particular sort of person. People have long tried to identify some such categories of personality in their dating partners, even looking to questionable astrological signs for clues to character, and devising popular classifications such as the strong, silent type or the girl-next-door, the sensitive type or the party girl, just to name a few. Given that people seem to know instinctively that character styles play a significant role in their choice of mates, we might well ask what temperament theory has to tell us, first, about how the temperaments attract each other, and, second, about how the SP Artisans, the SJ Guardians, the NT Rationals, and the NF Idealists get along living with each other.

It should be emphasized that there are no right or wrong attractions; in individual cases, any temperament can be attracted to any other, and for all sorts of reasons. On the other hand -- and this is said cautiously -- more than four decades of people-watching (I began observing character styles in 1956) reveal that romantic attractions are not random and indiscriminate, but show clear patterns and frequencies. In other words, persons of certain temperaments tend to be attracted to persons of certain other temperaments, and if they botch up the mating somehow, they are likely to be attracted to, and again marry, another person of the same temperament as their first mate.

For an in depth analysis of the mating game between the types there is the Pygmalion Project: Volumes I, II, III

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The Pygmalion Project - Vol 3 - The IDEALIST

http://peacemonger.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 08:05:31 GMT

The Pygmalion Project

Volume Three: The Idealist

... read how the intense, enthusiatic, highly intuitive Idealists search for ideal love, longing to find the one perfect "soul mate" with whom they can share their inner lives. But also learn about their mastery of the Pygmalion Project Project, as they bring all the power of their imaginations to bear on developing and deepening the significant people in their lives.

"The authors I have discussed in this volume portray the Idealist's search for the perfected life -- and the perfected mate -- with extraordinary insight and sympathy." -- Dr. Stephen Montgomery

Portraits of four Idealist (NF) types:

The Monastic --
"Yes, that's right... love should come before logic ... Only then will man come to understand the meaning of life." -- Fyodor Dostoevsky

The Advocate --
"I was frighten and disappointed: [the wedding] was over, but nothing extraordinary, nothing worthy of the Sacrament I had just recieved, had taken place in myself. 'Is that all?' I thought." -- Leo Tolstoy

The Counselor --
"I believed he was naturally a man of better tendencies, higher principles, and purer tastes than such as circumstances had developed... I thought there were excellent materials in him." -- Charlotte Bronte

The Teacher --
"She might yet be able to help him to the building of the rainbow bridge that should connect the prose in us with the passion." -- E.M. Forster